5 bolt conversion tech write up.

[Rudi]

Copied this from another board I posted this on, so some smillies might not work. let me know if there are any mistakes in the spelling etc. so I can edit them.

Rear first;

The conversion is actually pretty easy , all you have to do is to know what you're doing and having someone with you and some tools. We worked very relaxed and started at 10.30am and were done at 3.30pm, brakes bled all in, just took our time.
We had no problems during the conversion, except for a rusted disc which made removal of the disc a little hard (it got stuck behind the e-brake shoes) .

Parts needed for the conversion itself;
-Hub and bearing from either a z32 non-turbo or a s14 turbo (japanese non-turbo s14's have 4 bolt wheel hubs).
Bearings must be in good condition, or you must replace them. It is not possible to use an old bearing since removal of the bearing from a hub destroys the bearing, it will collapse. The bearing for the s13 and s14/z32 non-turbo are all the same as far as I know. They cost around 100 pound new by nissan though might be cheaper from other makes.


Special stuff needed for the conversion;
-Column drill machine with 13mm drill,
-Air tools, not needed but highly recommended,
-36mm socket,
-2 new splitpens for driveshaft caps,
-Torque wrench (recommended)

Many things in the write up tell about problems with the hand brake mechanism, as that's a drum assembly we got here in Europe. If you don't have it, good for you, as it makes the conversion easier. Simply skip the explanations among it.

Pics with explanation;

1; Jack the rear wheels up with the handbrake tightened. Remove the wheels, and remove the splitpens holding the caps on the driveshafts. Remove the 2 big 36mm nuts (best with air). Loosen the handbrake.

2; Remove the brake caliper, and place it on the lower control arm. Place the disc with the adjustment hole to the bottom, here you'll find the handbrake adjustment screw. Many s13's have rust inside the disc at the back of the shoes so you need to loosen the adjustment screw with a big flat screw driver to make it easier to take it off. If it's still hard to get it off, drive 2 8mm bolts in the disc and push it away with them from the hub.

Here's the adjustment screw behind the disc;


3; When the disc's removed, the upper control arms and toe arms can be removed from the knuckle (leave them attached on the subframe), do the shock absorber after the arms to make removal of the arms easier.

Rightside;


Leftside;


Be sure that both sides have the control arms loosened or removed (or loosen the ARB) and tap with a rubber hammer on the driveshaft until it comes loose from the wheel bearing, and it can be pulled out. Now it's easy to have someone helping you, one pushes the lower control arm down (yet not too far to avoid damage to the parking brake cable) and the other pulls the driveshaft out, there's just enough space if you do it well.

Place it on the side like in the pic;


4; Loosen the 4 17mm bolts bolts holding the bearing to the knuckle, screw them out until they're aprox 5mm away from the knuckle. Hit them with a steel hamer one by one until the bearing comes loose from the knuckle. It can be pulled out then, the handbrake shoes have a hoop in them so the bearing will come out easily without hitting the shoes.


5; Clean everything and place the 5 bolt hub with it's bearing into the knuckle. The extra bolt won't hit the drum, don't worry. Turn the bolts tight one by one and finally tighten them with 90nm.
Now the disc must be redrilled to the 5 stud fitment. this works like this; Place the s13 disc over a 5 bolt disc, and tighten it when the centre hole is well lined up. Keep in mind that the adjustment hole for the shoes must be reachable so look for the point where it's free outside the 5bolt hub. Place the 5bolt disc on top and use the column drill with a 13mm (0.55") drill to drill out the 4 new holes. The metal is very soft but it's still better to use wd40 or water for cooling the drill. It's not possible to use s14 rear discs, they're different. After drilling don't forget to remove as much rust as possible from the inside of the discs to make refitting easier and have a stronger ebrake.


6; Stick the driveshaft back into the hub (get someone to hold the knuckle down) after greasing it and all upper arms can be refitted, as well as the toe arm and for last the shock absorber. To avoid faster wear out of the bushings, lift up the knuckle to the height it's normally placed when the wheels are on the ground. Then bolt up the bolts/nuts and do the shock absorber last.

7; Place the disc on the hub and refit the brake caliper (sometimes easier if you remove the 2 14mm bolts and split the caliper). Use wheel lugs to tighten the disc onto the hub and tighten the handbrake. Now the 36mm nut can be refitted and torqued down too 220nm. Place the cap back onto it and use a new split pen to clamp it.

8; If needed, readjust the handbrake. Loosen it and then turn the adjustment screw until it's tight with the disc. The loosen the screw for 5-6 clicks (about 2/3 turn) and it'll be fine.

If you did something to the brakes you'll have to bleed those. We fitted new (well, painted) calipers and the pedal feel was good after just bleeding the rears. If it's still not good, do the fronts too and abs pump.

Result;

[Rudi]

Front;

We started this time at 6.15pm. and Dave drove home at 11.45pm, so was pretty fast.

We got into more troubles then with the rears, major problem was was that the new moog ball joints didn't glide easily into the s13 lower arm, a press would be a much smarter idea next time. Now we had to hammer them in, highly disrecommended. If you're doing this, get a spare set of s13 lower arms and press the new ball joints in them and fit those under the car, will save lots of time too during the conversion.

The wire thread on the left stabalizer endlink was gone too, so the stabalizer bar is hardly working now. They broke on my car too, so might be better to have one or two spare, or just buy upgrade sway bars with new endlinks.
Another minor problem was that the split pen broke of in the steering rack ball joint on the right side, so we used locktite when refitting the nut.


What you'll need for the front conversion;

Stuff;
-s14 Spindles with (best is to use new ones) s14 ball joints or a complete s14 lower arm (See post #42 in this topic for info),
-4 (ss) steel or copper sleeves 14mm outer diameter, 12mm inner diameter and between 2-3cm long, or use s14 shocks, no need for the sleeves then,
-2 extra wheel nuts,

Tools;
-Torque wrench,
-Press (just for the removal/fitting of the ball joints, so can be done before the car's up if you have spare lower arms)
-Air tools,
-Snap ring removal/fitting tool,
-Ball joint removal tool.

When using z32 brakes;
-4 new copper rings, iron saw and bench-vice (if not buying direct fit ss lines from Pdm),
-Extra rings for the caliper bolts (explanation in write up).


If you want to use z32 brakes and reuse the std brake lines, you'll have to find a flat sharp scratch knife and scratch the surface of the entry on the brake line of the z32 caliper. If you do not do this, there is a chance you'll get a leakage. I have fitted brake lines like this without scratching and it worked well, while others required hour's of skimming . Yet the best is to use new lines from Pdm, yet they don't have the attachement to the strut so they're not fully legal...


These are the s14 spindles with copper sleeves. These are available at the local plumber. They reduce the 14mm hole back to the 12mm size the s13 strut uses, this way, you won't have to drill the strut out, which is a pain in the ass to do :angry: .



The abs sensors are a little annoying when doing the conversion. That's because the s13 and s14 use different plugs that do not line up in the engine bay. The s14 examples are too short also, so using crown toes won't work. It's very hard to cut of the plugs in the engine bay and once you did you can't go back. I did it on my car and didn't work out...
Best is to cut of the line inside the wheel arch and use a part of the line from the s13, and connect them with crown toes or something I don't know the right word for . Best is to use a strong tape/wrap to protect it after cutting and to prevent the weak abs wire to break of from the crown toe.


Before you start cutting the wire measure the impedance on the s14 abs sensors. It should be the same as the s13 example, iirc 1.2K ohm. If it's no good, get other spindles, fit a new sensor or junk abs . Don't ask me if s13 sensors will fit s14 spindles, but I'm pretty sure they're different.


Starting;

Lift both wheels, and remove them. Disconnect the abs plugs in the engine bay and loosen it from the engine bay and in the wheel arch (2 12mm bolts) and from the strut (one 12mm bolt). Remove the brake calipers, and place them on the sway bars, leave the brake line connected if you're resuing your old brakes. It's easier to reach/loosen the caliper bolts if you steer it fully to one side (to the right for the right caliper and vs).

Remove the split pen on the steering rack ball joints. Loosen the 19mm nut until it's almost on top, then hammer it with a steel hammer till it comes loose (hitting the nut is better then hitting the wire end) or use the required tool which most DIY'ers don't have . If it's loose, do not yet remove the 19mm bolt.

Loosen the sway bar, there's a 14mm nut at the bottom and using a 12mm twinge key on top to loosen it. If you don't hold the 12mm nut on top, you'll probably break the endlink where it's attached to the sway bar.
Loosen the tension rod from the lower arm, 2x 17mm nuts.

If you have no air tools, remove the split pen and loosen the nut holding the ball joint on the lower arm. The 2 bolts/nuts holding the strut to spindle can now be loosened. With this loose the spindle will fall aside. Now remove the bolt/nut holding the lower arm to the subframe. The steering ball joint can now be removed from the spindle and the lower arm and spindle will be completely loose from the car. Remove the split pen from the ball joint and use air tools to remove the ball joint's 22mm bolt. Hit the ball joint with a steel hammer (or use the tool ) until it's free from the spindle, don't think about saving the old s13 ball joint, waste of time.

Remove the old snap ring from the ball joint. Place the lower arm on a piece of exhaust or something hard like that, it should have an inner diameter just a little more then the ball joint's seat;


Smack with a steel hammer upon it, this may take a while. A press might be a little easier....and better for the ball joint When it's removed, use rough sanding paper to clean the seating area of the ball joint, do this for a while as the moog joints can be a very tight seat :evil6: .

[Rudi]

Get the moog ball joints and put some wax on them, and place them on a bench inside the lower arm;


Now you should be doing this with a press. If you don't have one, place a piece of thin soft wood on the bottom of the ball joint and smack it with a steel hammer till it's fully inside the lower arm. We had to hammer the last piece without wood in between, not recommended, use a press!. It would be easier if you collect a spare set of lower arms and fit the s14 ball joints in them before doing the conversion. Be sure to hold the lower arm flat while smacking.

When the ball joint sits tight the new snap ring can be fitted (is included with the moog ball joint);


When fitted put some grease on the snap ring or it will become rusty very soon.

Place the lower arm back into the subframe, stick the tension rod's thread ends and sway bar endlink through it before fitting it to the subframe. Bolt it tight with 100nm, will look like this by then;


The 17mm nuts for the tension rod can be refitted and tightened to 100nm, do not yet tighten the end link. Place the s14 spindle on the ball joint and put the new nut on it that's suplied with the moog ball joint set, as well as the steering rack nut.


Place the new split pen (also included with the moog set) and bow it tight, do the same for the steering rack ball joint. Place the sleeves into the spindle after greasing them and refit the 2 17mm bolts/nuts. Tighten them 100nm;


Place the disc on the hub and turn 2 nuts holding it tight to the hub.
Now the caliper can be fitted. If this is a z32 example, I hope you got the bolts that hold it onto the z32 suspension as well, cause they're a little shorter. If you have to use your stock s13 bolts, they might hit the disc, so you must use a ring (1 or 2) to space it out from the disc;


Now comes most annoying job, that is, if you're using stock s13 brake lines. Remove the 12mm banjo bolts (capture the leaking fluid) from the s13 calipers and place them in the bench vice;


Saw the banjo bolts 3-4mm off (not too much, as there will be no flesh left for the caliper) and skim the bolt. Clean it and with the new copper rings place it against the z32 caliper. Turn the bolt tight, yet be very careful not to overtighten them, as you'll kill the thread inside the z32 caliper, ecspecially the aluminium ones.
There should be no leakage, if there is, resurface the caliper (painstaking job) or buy the lines from Pdm.
Lookes like this;




Attach the end link back into the lower arm, take care not to break it.
Now the brakes can be bled. We got away with doing just the 2 z32 calipers, brake pressure was fine. If you're having pressure problems, bleed everything.

The abs wires need to be recut now. Use an iron saw to cut the armored sheath on the s13 and s14 wire and cut the rest of the wires open. Attach them with crown toes, or something better. It's best to make a protective armour over these naked wires yet be carefull not to pull the weak wires out from the crown toes.



Attach the 12mm bolts from the abs wiring back onto the engine bay and strut. Attach the plugs in the engine bay.
Should you abs warning light go on, you can do a self diagnose on the system to check what's wrong.


Refit the wheels and done.


These are the ss lines pdm suplies, as can be seen these do not attach to the strut so are not legal and in fact not safe :huh:

[LDA]

good write up!

L.

[M.D.]

can the s14 callipers not be used on a 4 stud car

[Ben A]

brilliant. just in time for me to do mine .

can the s14 callipers not be used on a 4 stud car

yes they can. all you need it the s14 calipers and some redrilled s14 disks to 4-stud. you don't even need different hoses.

[Pete H]

I have just done this and must say this is a good write up. It is much more logical than my bungled job.

I did it on a 180SX (1992) and it had S14 style rear brakes on it already so did not need the whole drum thing.

Also, I did not put the sleeves in the hub carrier bit so I have a bit of extra camber "adjustment"

[M.D.]

yes they can. all you need it the s14 calipers and some redrilled s14 disks to 4-stud. you don't even need different hoses.

sweet mate, thanks for that, im going to a breakers that have a few nissans tomorrow so im looking for brakes 300zx AFM and 444 injectors, unless anyone on here has some spare

[Ben A]

oh yeah, you'll also need to grind off a few threads off the banjo bolt for it to do up against the hose rather than bottom out on the calliper housing.

hope that makes sence

[alanjuggler]

sticky

[M.D.]

yeah deffo. ill see wat they have there

[Rudi]

oh yeah, you'll also need to grind off a few threads off the banjo bolt for it to do up against the hose rather than bottom out on the calliper housing.

hope that makes sence

Yep, already mentioned that in the write up.
Some other brake info;
-The s14 and 300zx calipers use 30mm discs that are fully the same, so you can use the discs from both cars on both calipers.
-The old 300zx NA used 26mm thick discs, but they are a little uncommon (not much seen over here as we never got the 300zx NA).
-The pad hardware is not fully the same on the s14 and z32, the brackets holding the pads are a little different, so do not order parts from the diff. calipers. Pads are the same though.
-This had been asked alot so hope this helps; the s14 and z32 calipers fit onto the s13 spindle, these cars all have the same distance/offset on their calipers/discs. A 5bolt setup is not required for the fitting of s14/z32 brakes, just redrill the discs as desrcibed in the write-up. You could even fit s13 calipers on a s14/z32 LOL

[Ben A]

Yep, already mentioned that in the write up.

i haven't read it yet. i've only looked at the pictures

[Rudi]

Pic of the finished car ;

[M.D.]

are the brakes much better

[Ben A]

are the brakes much better

in the words of the answer given by a hungry man to the question 'would you like extra fries with that,'......................yes.





very much better.

[dave-meagan]

Pic of the finished car ;

Hi There.

I must say the car looks awesome and drives good,very happy with the 300zx TT brakes

By the way that pic is taken at a meeting the day after we installed the whole thing

cheers

[skyshack]

You only have 1/2 a back brake! Get that rear disk skimmed (looks a bit blue so would be better changed), change the pads and free up the sliding calipers.

[dave-meagan]

You only have 1/2 a back brake! Get that rear disk skimmed (looks a bit blue so would be better changed), change the pads and free up the sliding calipers.

Hey skyshack,very soon were going to add the rear z32 brakes as well with some new rotors in the back.
I'll keep ya'll posted

[razza987]

These are the s14 spindles with copper sleeves. These are available at the local plumber. They reduce the 14mm hole back to the 12mm size the s13 strut uses, this way, you won't have to drill the strut out, which is a pain in the ass to do :angry: .

I thought this was a great idea, but could only find 15mm copper pipe So I just had to cut down the length of the 1" bit of pipe, then cut about 3-4mm of material out of it so it could be rolled tighter to fit inside the hub carrier holes. Job's a good 'un
Raz