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Thread: SXOC Facebook group

  1. #21
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    Did we not talk about putting tech info behind a paywall (reality the membership) years ago and we all deemed it to be a bad idea.
    I still think it is but..... well club survival ect.... what else can be done.

  2. #22
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    facebook adds no value to this world, all the other s body groups are full of numpites asking the same questions over and over, no search function on there means nothing is recorded.

    SXOC.COM rules

  3. #23
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    What about insisting that anyone who wants to join the FB page has to be a registered (not paid up member) or the sxoc? or is that already part of it.

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    The minute you introduce a road block or a paywall to anything on Facebook, you'll kill it.

    The same reason Japspeed flourishes and genuine parts die is the same reason Facebook has flourished and the PHP has suffered: people are cheap and lazy.

    It's far easier to write a question than it is to search an answer.

    Plus, I would bet my bottom dollar the majority of access comes through Smartphones and the PHP is hardwork on that. Tapatalk isn't much better either.

    Edit - what I meant to summarise is that if you let it evolve naturally and fill naturally, and just encourage people to link to the PHP, you may drive the increased traffic without trying too hard.
    Last edited by piman2k; 28-01-2021 at 15:13.

  5. #25
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    Guys don’t worry the club isn’t skint and there are zero plans to shut down the servers. We reduced the membership recently as we didn’t feel that we were offering good value for money in the same way that we could before.

    The Facebook group was created back in 2018 but not made public, I made it public on a whim and feel it’s been a nice mini revival. It reminds me a little of the forum a decade ago. The intent was to make it a members only Facebook forum but in reality the admin work put us all off.
    1998 Nissan 200sx s14a , 2000 std 5 speed with nismo supercoppermix clutch bn6 Sapphire Blue

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    Photobucket killed the forums, all the threads explaining things with nice pictures are now useless.

    Still prefer forums and as mentioned above facebook is just the same question asked on a different day.

    Its a lot harder to find those golden nuggets of info these days.

    I for one am bad, as I had multiple build threads on 350z forum but it would take more time and effort to update/trawl through old hard drives to find the pictures than it would to build my 200sx back from bare bones.

    I haven' paid/donated to a forum for a couple of years but hope more informative content starts coming back to them/repairing old threads when people realise how poor facebook groups are, at which point I will gladly start paying/donating.
    I don't tend to ask questions on here much but i do google and search a lot but rarely seem to find the info I am after and have to wing it... and forget to upload pictures on here and just upload to the forum no one actually cares what I am doing as it's not a 350z.

  7. #27
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    The club membership was in decline before the photobucket debacle but it didn't help.

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    On the flip side, the poblem with photobucket etc is one to be proud of though. I mean, we have content on this forum that's maybe 15 years old? That's quite the legacy.

  9. #29
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilz View Post
    Photobucket killed the forums, all the threads explaining things with nice pictures are now useless.
    Was definitely FB, in our case a lot of local group modded car pages which makes sense really as it was effectively how SXOC started way back when - its a lot easier to get pals when they are only 10 minutes down the road and they come and get on the spanners every weekend. Its a generational thing too, most of the OG SXOC are over 40 (some over 50) with kids now and we arent going to adapt to FB the same way that millenials have.
    My favourite example of that is talking to tech, even though I consider myself [pretty savvy I dont use Siri or Bixby or send WA voice messages, your average 21 year old doesnt ever type anything.

    As Chris said we are committed now to keeping this site hosted for as long as possible and weve got a decent amount of money to do it not only because of the tech knowledge but also the bants, the FB group shows that theres still plenty of that spirit about too
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    Hmm i can see it contributing to the total death of the site eventually.

    Unless... we could drive traffic here by insisting all technical information, help and discussion take place on the SXOC - i know this might pee off a lot on FB but the SXOC has a huge database of knowledge and it should be continued.
    Yeah. We wouldn’t be able to sound off at Leona about being a Trumpist Brexit lover on FB. FB would deem it ‘not in their community spirit’ and wave the ban stick.

    This is what p’s me off about the Interweb. All these “fledgling” sites start off being open - decent apis, get loads of users, then close the apis off because their services are being used without any ad revenue (I appreciate they cannot survive without ad revenue, but it is time to stop when they treat their customers as a ‘product’)

    Take Trakt and Plex, popular and are thriving due to they let you use their products and services for free, but provide a “VIP” service which you pay a subscription for and they are pretty cheap subscriptions

    Take Wikipedia. Survives on donations. It may not be as factually accurate as maybe ‘Encyclopaedia Britannica’ but is more widely used.

    Perhaps Forums are a dying breed (it’s easier and free to setup a Group on Facebook - it is free to the end user. Funded by adverts) but and a big but. Someone may spend time writing an article, including links to other sites. Facebook’s ad ***orithms will take that and with their web super trawlers create an ad that some unwitting fellow clicks on thinking it’s an SXOC post and then it falls apart.

    Case being, I took my Mum’s Pixel 3 away because she couldn’t stop clicking Ads and ended up installing 10 messaging apps and got confused (she is nearly 80). I got her an iPhone X, so she is protected by Apple’s defence against Facebook and I can control / protect her from installing apps she doesn’t need / want to use (does that make sense?)

    Another case. Take the 370 Facebook group. There is so much BS there (“How do I get 400 whp with just a filter, test pipes and an exhaust without a tune?” Or “you cannot purchase Nismo products from a Nissan dealership without a VIN!”) how do you filter out the BS?

    How many S Bodies are there now in existence (on the road? ) can’t be that many and most of the owners would probably appreciate a decent site where the guides are decent and unbiased- case being there is a certain tuner on the 200SX users FB group who rubbishes every other tuner apart from him (wasn’t rule 1 of business studies, you don’t rubbish the competition, just prove you are better?)

    It’s a tough question


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  11. #31
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    SXOC Facebook group

    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    My favourite example of that is talking to tech, even though I consider myself [pretty savvy I dont use Siri or Bixby or send WA voice messages, your average 21 year old doesnt ever type anything.
    Most of that demographic I know can touch type (one thumb) faster than some secretaries can use a full keyboard

    Who the F uses Bixby instead of Google Assistant anyway? And isn’t Alexa more widely used. I use it and don’t have an Amazon product

    Saying that in deep Sarf Essex. The voice assistants don’t understand the teenagers (Siri doesn’t understand “I Ain’t got Nuffink!”)


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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    The club membership was in decline before the photobucket debacle but it didn't help.
    Membership was probably on the decline because people have simply moved away from the S Body - maybe in a few years time when the decent ones are still left and cared for would be time for a proper SX owners club.

    Let’s be honest, when the majority of us modded them, in true Clarkson Hammond and May style ‘we ruined them’ - Caleini suggested it would be a good idea to Rose joint the suspension- for a daily runner - it does transfer all mechanical sound through the body (handles fantastic) but not for a daily.... the sound system was to drown all the other noises out)

    The thing I hate about the Z34 scene. Everyone wants to slam their cars as low as they can go - which means Air bagged suspension. Screws the handling on a car that was setup well from the factory - so it isn’t just the S Bodies being ruined by owners

    One day I may get another S Body, but when I’m in the position to do a concourse or “similar” job - probably won’t be any base cars left to do that


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  13. #33
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    Years ago, a decision was made to turn it into a social club instead (and quite a cliquey one at that) and people moved away from here to Facebook and dropped their membership. The club funds were directed towards a series of loss-making Weekender extravaganzas so that now there is hardly a pot to piss in.

    I believe, though I cannot prove, that the servers that underpin the forum would disappear if it wasn't for the generosity of Jim and Co.

    If people use the Facebook pages to direct people to interesting content on the forum, footfall (and even membership) could increase but it would still be a long way from being a thriving classic car club IMO.
    Dont know why you felt the need to post this but frankly you can **** off with these assumptions.

    The Weekenders were popular and were not loss making, the first couple made profit and increased club membership, the last one cost us about £2K IIRC.
    No "decision" was made, all modern car clubs have suffered as users naturally move to FB and most have closed, none that I know of have managed to reverse the trend. This is not MG Owners, these are not classic cars, the membership will never be about flasks of tea and 35mph average speed rallies.

    We are currently sat on more than enough cash to maintain this site for many years to come and while Jim, Ste et al put a lot of time into administration, club proceeds bought the hardware we currently use and will buy the nest hardware too. As a group we made a decision that the best legacy for this club is to make sure that the forum both as a resource for technical info and a record of the banter remain available for as long as possible, as far as Im aware every thread is still accessible, albeit without photobucket links for obvious reasons.

    However I would like to thank you for all of the unpaid time, money and effort you put into to making the club great ......... oh sorry, thats the actual staff and not a moaning git of a member who feels its his place to make inaccurate posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    Dont know why you felt the need to post this but frankly you can **** off with these assumptions.

    The Weekenders were popular and were not loss making, the first couple made profit and increased club membership, the last one cost us about £2K IIRC.
    No "decision" was made, all modern car clubs have suffered as users naturally move to FB and most have closed, none that I know of have managed to reverse the trend. This is not MG Owners, these are not classic cars, the membership will never be about flasks of tea and 35mph average speed rallies.

    We are currently sat on more than enough cash to maintain this site for many years to come and while Jim, Ste et al put a lot of time into administration, club proceeds bought the hardware we currently use and will buy the nest hardware too. As a group we made a decision that the best legacy for this club is to make sure that the forum both as a resource for technical info and a record of the banter remain available for as long as possible, as far as Im aware every thread is still accessible, albeit without photobucket links for obvious reasons.

    However I would like to thank you for all of the unpaid time, money and effort you put into to making the club great ......... oh sorry, thats the actual staff and not a moaning git of a member who feels its his place to make inaccurate posts.
    God forbid I agree with Docwra - I simply meant the 355 came alive above 80 and then when you slowed down again it just felt normalish - I’ve digressed (sorry mate), but I agree with Docwra

    I don’t think or have any reason to believe any decision was made to make it cliquey. The opposite to be honest, just some members and I will admit to being one of them... may have made it difficult at times.

    Case being current Brexit thread. There are people on here with different political views, so people are going to clash from time to time .

    People are human, some like things that others don’t. It’s simple.

    It’s like saying all Apple users are a clique because they aren’t using Android. They aren’t. I got my Mum an iPhone X (refurb from Amazon) simply because she was fed up with the adverts and made my life more difficult (sorry Mum )

    Docwra, I think you all have made the right decision, to keep a record. The SXOC was known as the fun club at JAE for instance. It’s Great that we record the banter, because some of it has become legendary

    Jonny if you think the SXOC is Cliquey, you should checkout the Z clubs...

    Thank you Docwra and all for your unpaid time. Sincerely


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    Last edited by Asht_200; 10-02-2021 at 12:47.

  15. #35
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    The amount of personal time and effort from all the mods etc. is credit to themselves for keep the forum and club going. Not to mention the costs involved.

    But... there was a decision! I remember the club poll. I voted for car technical/ resoration/ maintenance type path. But the majority voted social/ drifting/ etc. and that is the way the club then went.

    "This is not MG Owners, these are not classic cars, the membership will never be about flasks of tea and 35mph average speed rallies. "

    Alot of these ARE classic cars. S12s and S13s in all senses of the word. S14s getting there, my S14 has been on a classic car policy for the last 5 years. Another 8 years and she will get full classic status and cheap road tax.
    Just on the tea and slipper brigade image, I own a near 50 year old Triumph and the classic rallies that I run her on range from track days to mountain runs, and I can tell you that some of the owners that are in their 60/70s are pure mental! You wouldn't get them driving at 35mph anywhere. So "classic club" does not have to mean boring or slow. Just look at the American Muscle guys!
    Last edited by markcro; 10-02-2021 at 16:15.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by markcro View Post
    The amount of personal time and effort from all the mods etc. is credit to themselves for keep the forum and club going. Not to mention the costs involved.

    But... there was a decision! I remember the club poll. I voted for car technical/ resoration/ maintenance type path. But the majority voted social/ drifting/ etc. and that is the way the club then went.

    "This is not MG Owners, these are not classic cars, the membership will never be about flasks of tea and 35mph average speed rallies. "

    Alost of these ARE classic cars. S13s in all senses of the word. S14s getting there, my S14 has been on a classic car policy for the last 5 years. Another 9 years and she will get full classic status and cheap road tax.
    Just on the tea and slipper brigade image, I own a near 50 year Triumph and the classic rallies that I run her on range from track days to mountain runs, and I can tell you that some of the owners that are in their 60/70s are pure mental! You wouldn't get them driving at 35mph anywhere. So "classic club" does not have to mean boring or slow. Just look at the American Muscle guys!
    I know the vote would have been confidential (privacy etc) but it would be interesting to know the demographic of who voted.

    I mentioned the 370 club. In the US, 370s are being purchased as first cars (17 year olds) first thing they do is bag them and then they want to boost them and then complain when it breaks

    The problem with the “these aren’t MGs, they should be drifted etc” most of them will end up complete heaps before becoming classics.

    We’ve all laughed about how the old British cars of the 70s rusted, Lancias dissolved faster than a soluble aspirin etc, but the S bodies rot as well and while they are being hooned around with people not appreciating that they may be worth something one day. Difficult to know what to say. I regret nodding mine (sure I had a lot of fun in it) but it would be worth a lot more now if I hadn’t messed with it and didn’t ignore what was going on underneath

    This is really going to upset the drifters drifting is to Motorsport as Dressage is to equestrian


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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    Dont know why you felt the need to post this but frankly you can **** off with these assumptions.

    The Weekenders were popular and were not loss making, the first couple made profit and increased club membership, the last one cost us about £2K IIRC.
    No "decision" was made, all modern car clubs have suffered as users naturally move to FB and most have closed, none that I know of have managed to reverse the trend. This is not MG Owners, these are not classic cars, the membership will never be about flasks of tea and 35mph average speed rallies.

    We are currently sat on more than enough cash to maintain this site for many years to come and while Jim, Ste et al put a lot of time into administration, club proceeds bought the hardware we currently use and will buy the nest hardware too. As a group we made a decision that the best legacy for this club is to make sure that the forum both as a resource for technical info and a record of the banter remain available for as long as possible, as far as Im aware every thread is still accessible, albeit without photobucket links for obvious reasons.

    However I would like to thank you for all of the unpaid time, money and effort you put into to making the club great ......... oh sorry, thats the actual staff and not a moaning git of a member who feels its his place to make inaccurate posts.
    For the record...
    I did try to get involved in the club management but was told I had to work my way up from club rep and we already had two in my area.
    I also asked for the accounts to be published or to see a copy and was told that was not possible.
    I was told verbally by more than one of the club's officials that the club was in financial difficulties, that the weekenders had made a loss in all its later years and one in particular and that there was a question for a time over whether the club would be able to afford the cost of keeping the servers going.
    As Markcro said, there was a thread/vote on the forum a few years ago and suggestions to try to move it in the same direction as the Triumph Sports Six Club (which is a really successful car club) were pooh-poohed by a number of people and the consensus was to head along a path that made it more of a social club.

    I think I've made a fairly positive contribution to the club over the years, giving away a lot of parts, time and technical know-how to people in the club and I only stopped being a member because the only option to pay was paypal which I don't have (after three years of getting other people to pay my membership over paypal and then paying them back).

    You are saying there is enough money to mothball the site for posterity. That isn't the same as saying we've got a thriving car club that is actively contributing to the survival and betterment of these cars.

    However, you are right, I probably should have kept my mouth shut so I'll let it go now

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    For the record...
    I did try to get involved in the club management but was told I had to work my way up from club rep and we already had two in my area.
    I also asked for the accounts to be published or to see a copy and was told that was not possible.
    I was told verbally by more than one of the club's officials that the club was in financial difficulties, that the weekenders had made a loss in all its later years and one in particular and that there was a question for a time over whether the club would be able to afford the cost of keeping the servers going.
    As Markcro said, there was a thread/vote on the forum a few years ago and suggestions to try to move it in the same direction as the Triumph Sports Six Club (which is a really successful car club) were pooh-poohed by a number of people and the consensus was to head along a path that made it more of a social club.

    I think I've made a fairly positive contribution to the club over the years, giving away a lot of parts, time and technical know-how to people in the club and I only stopped being a member because the only option to pay was paypal which I don't have (after three years of getting other people to pay my membership over paypal and then paying them back).

    You are saying there is enough money to mothball the site for posterity. That isn't the same as saying we've got a thriving car club that is actively contributing to the survival and betterment of these cars.

    However, you are right, I probably should have kept my mouth shut so I'll let it go now
    In the early days it was a bit cliquey. Mark, you’ll be the first to recognise the nickname wasn’t warranted but you were nicknamed Hitler and moderators were to happy to wave the ban stick

    As for publishing accounts. I’m not sure how the club would go about that. I know some clubs I belong to publish them during their AGM’s has the SXOC ever had AGM’s? I was probably too drunk at JAE or weekenders to realise

    Jonny you have done more than a lot of members to help. It just the club but individual people. Thank you

    I understand there are a lot of people on here who do not have Facebook accounts for whatever reason which is personal to them. Not sure what the answer is.. but if we want to give people an idea what moving it to Facebook is like, lock some popular threads for 24 hours.. because it doesn’t adhere to SXOC community etc

    If we were to lock the forum and mothball it. It would mean disbanding club membership etc (I guess) what happens to the money in the accounts? Donate it to charity?


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    Just 258 S13 left taxed and MOTed, 1070 "projects".
    188 pre-facelift S14 taxed and MOTed, 495 projects.
    477 facelift S14 taxed and MOTed, 868 projects.

    It's a death slide. There may not be enough in UK to keep a spares supply in operation. Can't see any recent posts by "traders".

    This how its gone for 3 models of Celica XT
    485 27 years ago.
    272 23 years ago.
    23 left, half are projects.
    https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/toyota_celica_xt

    There are over 5,000 Triumph TR6 but under 2000 GT6.

    The Lancia Beta Monte Carlo may be holding steady though a very small dedicated support group (as featured on Classic Car Salvage Hunters).
    https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicl...ta_monte_carlo

    Classic insurance starts at 15 years old but can't be drive to work or daily driver. ALL 200SX/180SX/240SX/Siliva are classics.

    UK anything over 40 years old is an HISTORIC vehicle for tax. But FIVA define Historic as 30 years old.

    Advice on Facebook has major quality issues. CA18DET group is owned by a bunch of Australians. They never heard of H-DEV stage tuning, all chips are shit, say you have to fit a £1000 ECU swap and pay a rolling road tuner to do any tune. Because the stock ECU doesn't have anti lag, launch control or blue-tooth. People keep asking for tuning spec that will give 300bhp AT THE WHEELS but don't get told they have crossed the line between cheap bolt ones and major engine work for just 20ish bhp, just fit a £1000 ECU. Then there is the 1 hose cooling system on Driftopia, connect by-pass to heater feed from block mod, this gets recommended every 2 months. Of course being JDM they don't have oil coolers and seem to think turbo coolant is optional. Even though they demand a £1000 ECU they will use oil cooled Diesel turbos cos they are cheap.

    Oops.

    The officials of a club have to be elected at an AGM held annually. Fail to do this and the HMRC will view it as a business and tax the unelected management on club subs as income.

    That was why Mark had to stand down as unelected "chairman" rather quickly.

    Spares are becoming a problem, many parts are now discontinued. Even the pattern parts could dry up. Last time I bought a water pump for S13 my motor factor told me there may not be many left in the supply warehouse. Some parts like brakes are appearing at knock down prices, this suggests they are clearing stock. BRITISH car clubs run spares schemes. Yes that would really upset the non existent traders, at least Gary at APT had the decency to tell us that the 200SX was dead.

    The Tech forum is broke. SXOC never could afford to upload the linked images. There is a request for a how to fit a SR20 into S13 guide, the link to media SXOC is broke and it's gone..... Says John is a guest, maybe hasn't renewed and the SXOC deleted everything he uploaded to media.

    My desire to run a near stock car as daily driver has always been at odds with the smash em and bash em of the SXOC. I still have plans to be driving one in 15 years time. I have 3 1/2 cars, I can use 2 1/2 as donors.

    Think this is bad? VMCC have 12,300 members at £40/pa. They had a good income from commission on a members insurance deal, that has dried up as other insurers have moved into the market. The other incomes were from 2 BIG events, Banbury run and Festival of 1000 bikes, both cancelled 2 years in a row. Trouble is when they had over 17,000 members they somehow got professional management, expenses grew.

    Now they have just enough cash to last 18 months even though they had a bequest for £1/4m.

    The VMCC library includes a lot bike makers production data, frame and engine nos. They have never digitised it. Costs £22,000/pa to run, in part because it has collections from the science museum and needs a librarian. But they don't even know what they have in the collection, they have unopened boxes of donated material.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    Just 258 S13 left taxed and MOTed, 1070 "projects".
    188 pre-facelift S14 taxed and MOTed, 495 projects.
    477 facelift S14 taxed and MOTed, 868 projects.

    It's a death slide. There may not be enough in UK to keep a spares supply in operation. Can't see any recent posts by "traders".

    This how its gone for 3 models of Celica XT
    485 27 years ago.
    272 23 years ago.
    23 left, half are projects.
    https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/toyota_celica_xt

    There are over 5,000 Triumph TR6 but under 2000 GT6.

    The Lancia Beta Monte Carlo may be holding steady though a very small dedicated support group (as featured on Classic Car Salvage Hunters).
    https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicl...ta_monte_carlo

    Classic insurance starts at 15 years old but can't be drive to work or daily driver. ALL 200SX/180SX/240SX/Siliva are classics.

    UK anything over 40 years old is an HISTORIC vehicle for tax. But FIVA define Historic as 30 years old.

    Advice on Facebook has major quality issues. CA18DET group is owned by a bunch of Australians. They never heard of H-DEV stage tuning, all chips are shit, say you have to fit a £1000 ECU swap and pay a rolling road tuner to do any tune. Because the stock ECU doesn't have anti lag, launch control or blue-tooth. People keep asking for tuning spec that will give 300bhp AT THE WHEELS but don't get told they have crossed the line between cheap bolt ones and major engine work for just 20ish bhp, just fit a £1000 ECU. Then there is the 1 hose cooling system on Driftopia, connect by-pass to heater feed from block mod, this gets recommended every 2 months. Of course being JDM they don't have oil coolers and seem to think turbo coolant is optional. Even though they demand a £1000 ECU they will use oil cooled Diesel turbos cos they are cheap.

    Oops.

    The officials of a club have to be elected at an AGM held annually. Fail to do this and the HMRC will view it as a business and tax the unelected management on club subs as income.

    That was why Mark had to stand down as unelected "chairman" rather quickly.

    Spares are becoming a problem, many parts are now discontinued. Even the pattern parts could dry up. Last time I bought a water pump for S13 my motor factor told me there may not be many left in the supply warehouse. Some parts like brakes are appearing at knock down prices, this suggests they are clearing stock. BRITISH car clubs run spares schemes. Yes that would really upset the non existent traders, at least Gary at APT had the decency to tell us that the 200SX was dead.

    The Tech forum is broke. SXOC never could afford to upload the linked images. There is a request for a how to fit a SR20 into S13 guide, the link to media SXOC is broke and it's gone..... Says John is a guest, maybe hasn't renewed and the SXOC deleted everything he uploaded to media.

    My desire to run a near stock car as daily driver has always been at odds with the smash em and bash em of the SXOC. I still have plans to be driving one in 15 years time. I have 3 1/2 cars, I can use 2 1/2 as donors.

    Think this is bad? VMCC have 12,300 members at £40/pa. They had a good income from commission on a members insurance deal, that has dried up as other insurers have moved into the market. The other incomes were from 2 BIG events, Banbury run and Festival of 1000 bikes, both cancelled 2 years in a row. Trouble is when they had over 17,000 members they somehow got professional management, expenses grew.

    Now they have just enough cash to last 18 months even though they had a bequest for £1/4m.

    The VMCC library includes a lot bike makers production data, frame and engine nos. They have never digitised it. Costs £22,000/pa to run, in part because it has collections from the science museum and needs a librarian. But they don't even know what they have in the collection, they have unopened boxes of donated material.
    It’s expensive to run a decent car isn’t it


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