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Thread: Brexit Benefits

  1. #21
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    Another personal experience that would be a positive to keep the European business out was when Eon took over the MEB and absolutely assest stripped the lot selling every piece of land and equipment they could to send the profits back to ze germans.

    Admittedly our current American owners PPL have been no better, they moved in 8yrs ago, gave us a token gesture new van and few tools, but it has been like pissing your pants in the snow, felt good for a minute- but ended up much worse in the long term as they haven't invested a penny more than they had to after the initial 3 month investment and have instead just concentrated on harvesting British bill payers money to send straight back to the USofA investors.

    Anything that discourages foreign ownership of UK business is a positive in my opinion, any management team will certainly be currupt, but at least try to keep the ill gotten cash in these Isles

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    Another personal experience that would be a positive to keep the European business out was when Eon took over the MEB and absolutely assest stripped the lot selling every piece of land and equipment they could to send the profits back to ze germans.

    Admittedly our current American owners PPL have been no better, they moved in 8yrs ago, gave us a token gesture new van and few tools, but it has been like pissing your pants in the snow, felt good for a minute- but ended up much worse in the long term as they haven't invested a penny more than they had to after the initial 3 month investment and have instead just concentrated on harvesting British bill payers money to send straight back to the USofA investors.

    Anything that discourages foreign ownership of UK business is a positive in my opinion, any management team will certainly be currupt, but at least try to keep the ill gotten cash in these Isles

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    While I appreciate the point you're making, that's got absolutely nothing to do with the EU. They still have the ability to acquire UK businesses, as you've highlighted with your US owners point.

  3. #23
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    I don't think I'd describe the divide as similar to religion, but I do completely see the validity of the analogy.

    What's interesting to me right now is that within a fortnight of the event, the only countries that appear to be suffering are the countries that didn't vote for it to happen in the first place. Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    Plus the fishing industry that is the centre of the Brexit universe, is being crushed at an exponential rate as we speak. Johnson took part in some form of select committee earlier this week that I caught the highlights of where he actually said we would be compensating fishermen who are losing out. (Albeit he is now U-Turning on that after literally a day - link to article).

    I didn't see that in the Brexit campaign documentation. The need to compensate the industry for Brexit despite it being the industry that would benefit the most from Brexit.

    Car prices are going up. Supermarkets are warning that food prices are about to go up. Small businesses around the world are issuing statements saying they won't be selling to the UK anymore because of the VAT rules. Small busines here are losing customers because of the duties their products are now facing. The City of London has been told that it's not going to get free access to it's most important market.

    It is what it is, but I think most remain voters so far can at least take a little comfort in knowing that they were right.
    Admittedly the 4 years of negitiations could only have been handled in a worse way if the RAF had bombed Brussels.

    We were part of the EEC/EC/EU for just under 17500 days, we have been apart from it for 15 days. Saying that Remainers were right is like calling the result of a football match after 5 seconds or the Falklands taskforce calling a victory after sailing past The Isle of Wight.

    Who knows what the future will bring. Can only hope less consumerism as that is killing the planet. Unfortunatly the EU only understands continued growth. TINA politics at it's worst. Hopefully this Kondratiev wave is coming to an end and we can start caring about humans, though we'd have to elect some first. Hopefully Covid will bring about a refocusing on the welfare state, just as the end of the Second World war did. Oh shit, a brexiteer mentioning the war. May be we can start repairing goods rather than just sticking them in landfill or having them create their own garbage island in the Pacific.

    Car prices are fake as no one actually pays them. Now manufacturers are setting up their own financial services, will they become another cartel controlling the market between them. Obviously the car industry exists to make money, but the current excesses are unsustainable.

    Do food prices have to go up, or is that disaster capitalists using Brexit/Covid? Will we ever know where the line that can separate these?

    Just to add, I hope Scotland/ Wales/ Ireland can have whatever Independance Referendums or deals that they want. Great Britain means nothing.
    Last edited by cleanhands; 16-01-2021 at 13:42. Reason: Felt like I made a personal attack

  4. #24
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, I think that our Government has used the EU to absolve itself of many responsibilities for years. I want to put the onus back on them. When they run the country with some care for their citizens then maybe we can go back in as a civilised country. I certainly don't mean Britons first, I mean all who are here. My biggest hope is that "The City" fcuks off and we have to find another way of doing things that helps us all.

    Yeah, I know, I'm just a stupid dreamer.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dlowe
    Unpopular opinion, but I think the best thing in its current form would be for the car industry to suck a shit and die.......

    Its generic white good crap that tries to keep people in a popetual loop of debt through PCP...

    Well, that’s just about the stupidest thing I’ve seen you write. It’s not just an unpopular opinion, it’s economic suicide for the U.K.

    Car industry keeps as best as makes no difference a million people in highly paid jobs. Which goes straight back into the economy.
    Last edited by piman2k; 16-01-2021 at 21:46.

  6. #26
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    Other than manufacturing, which the workforce could be just as employed making trains, buses and maintenance would be required just as much as cars.....

    As for show rooms etc, the staffing levels seem pretty sparse round here, so if the country did move towards actually caring about the environment and getting some cars off the road then there would be just as many roles for them in the new industry.

    I can't see they way it is going will be pleasant for anyone in the future, we seem to care more about keeping German manufacturers in profit than our pavements safe to walk on, or the environment we pretend to save with electric cars..... which will cause a lot more issues than most people realise with the nations electricity network, and will make towns a misery for decades if they have to bring it all upto scratch.


    A japan style model is what the world really needs where public transport works for everyone to get where they need to, so cars are a luxury item or bought for fun reasons, not because the only job you can get is an out of town amazon warehouse with no transport links, so you end up spending 20%+ of your wage to travel to the place that pays you....

    I have had this conversation a few times down the local and at least 30% of the people I've spoken to would love to get rid of the car as they just see it as an expense no pleasure any more. Especially in the new age of speed bumps, average cameras and lack of maintaining pot holes.

    Of course there would still be a huge market for vans and commercial vehicles, and without the masses sitting in traffic for hours in the morning/ afternoon would be a real economic boost in time and costs for fuel and staff in the goods transport industry

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    Last edited by DLowe; 16-01-2021 at 20:01.

  7. #27
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Well, that’s just about the stupidest thing I’ve seen you write. It’s not just an unpopular opinion, it’s economic suicide for the U.K.

    Car industry keeps as best as makes no difference a million people in highly paid jobs. Which goes straight back into the economy.
    So much for no personal attacks.

    We committed economic suicide when we deregulated the banks.

    You don't care about Fishermen remember, but you want everyone to care about your dying industry
    Last edited by cleanhands; 16-01-2021 at 20:49.

  8. #28
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    This exactly, the car industry has been built up to be what most consider the only employers worth looking after, but at the end of the day it may put crumbs in the mouths of a few here in the UK, the vast majority of what it extracts from our citizens goes directly into the bank accounts of foreign directors.

    No matter which way we assess the situation, a green environmental revolution is on its way, and electric cars plus solar panels really are no future. Its unobtainable in England due to the way our infrastructure has been neglected...... and for the last 20+ yrs the neglect has come from mostly foreign ownership.

    Its ok for e.on to own a UK power network, yet in Germany thiers are mostly state owned still, I can't think of any other country that doesn't keep at least a controlling stake in thier utilities.

    Hopefully with tariffs and paperwork it will drive the UK back into some kind of real manufacturing, its cool to be a world leader in engineering and all, but when you go to Alstom and we produce 1 or 2 massive transformers a year, but thier yard is full to bursting with Turkish made ones then something is wrong on a mega level....

    It upsets me to walk into our ageing substations and see still after 60+ years British made brush and South Wales switchgear - Well made and proudly built in the UK, replaced by cheap EU flimsy Lucy and Schnieder gear which is falling apart after 10yrs. By the time all the transportation has been paid for it shouldn't be a cheaper option to make it abroad.

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  9. #29
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    While we're on the car industry, PcP rubbish is killing off the real people who benefit.

    How many decent small garages and mechanics are now out of work due to people only renting cars that always have to go back to the main dealer....

    The guys can work thier nuts off at a main dealer and the only person who benefits is mr BMAudiToyotawhatever... the mechanic only gets paid the same, but whats expected of them only goes up with demand, not the rewards.

    Yet before all this crap come about, people actually had thier cars repaired and local garages carry out servicing, when its a small company the more they do, the bigger the reward, the more likely they are to spend that cash with other local firms, doing ghier house up with the spare dosh for example.

    Think about Tesco, when our local one in Kidsgrove opened, it decimated the high street. They are no cheaper than the proper shops were - butcher, green grocer etc. But the quality is gash by comparison. But when Mr butcher had his own shop, him and his Mrs probably did a little better than average, and they employes a couple of people who did OK. Now they use them skills to get just above minimum wage to push tescos profits and everyone's in the same boat with no opportunity to improve because you can't compete.



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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanhands View Post
    So much for no personal attacks.

    We committed economic suicide when we deregulated the banks.

    You don't care about Fishermen remember, but you want everyone to care about your dying industry
    It wasn’t for you buddy, it was for DLowe’s ridiculous comment. Let’s strip a million strong industry of highly paid workers. Brilliant.

    They can ‘just go make other stuff’. Brilliant.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanhands View Post
    You don't care about Fishermen remember, but you want everyone to care about your dying industry
    Now, again, I’m going to remind you my comment wasn’t for you. But I’m going to tackle this one immediately.

    I haven’t said I don’t care about fisherman. I have said that the difference that industry would make if it disappeared on the country would be almost invisible.

    The car industry is not dying. If you think that, you’re absolutely wrong. The manufacturing of cars is under pressure, sure, and Brexit is making it uncompetitive.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    How many decent small garages and mechanics are now out of work due to people only renting cars that always have to go back to the main dealer....
    I don’t know. Do you?

    How many companies have sprung up new or existing companies have trained to dealer standards to carry out approved servicing and repairs?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    This exactly, the car industry has been built up to be what most consider the only employers worth looking after, but at the end of the day it may put crumbs in the mouths of a few here in the UK, the vast majority of what it extracts from our citizens goes directly into the bank accounts of foreign directors.
    This is plainly and simply absolute bullshit.

    I will say it again. There are as near as makes no difference a million people employed in auto design, engineering and manufacturing in the U.K. for OEM, Tier 1, 2 and 3 suppliers. These jobs are, as a mean, above the national average wage and plough money back into the economy through consumer spending.

    Stop talking shit.

  14. #34
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    Must be different where you are, but here in stoke on my drive to work I go past at least 12 abandoned garages which back in the early 2000s had cars que up the street in the morning.

    The only places which seem to be doing business are audi and bmw.

    My point is UK manufacturing and industry has been allowed to completely fall on its arse, but its OK- our euro partners can swoop in and keep a few people employed at slightly above average wage.

    I was making a point that when the time comes the whole lots going to implode as sit seems a very unsustainable business model and I offered a reasonable suggestion, that the UK should be focused on sorting its public transport and this would offer a decent opportunity to actually make something again, and that would provide jobs for people already in the sector which could propell a national company not a foreign one

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  15. #35
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    And if UK manufacturing was to take a priority seat in the post brexit world then hopefully a lot of the designers and engineers working at the moment for the car industry should have even more opportunities to branch out into new fields and use that world leading expertise to design for utilities or machinery

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    This is plainly and simply absolute bullshit.

    I will say it again. There are as near as makes no difference a million people employed in auto design, engineering and manufacturing in the U.K. for OEM, Tier 1, 2 and 3 suppliers. These jobs are, as a mean, above the national average wage and plough money back into the economy through consumer spending.

    Stop talking shit.
    I can only talk from a stoke on Trent perspective...

    We were world leaders in pottery, tiles and such.... now most from Johnson or wade have moved to Spain.

    We used to lead the country in PCB and electronics, ICL and GEC had UK headquarters here, both gone to Germany.

    The only major employment round here now is warehouse work like screwfix or sainsburys, there's acres and acres of derelict industrial units which supported pottery and the like with skilled engineers, all gone off the back of that industry. We just seem to import crap and move it about, we need to be making the crap here and cutting a lot of the import culture out. It can't possibly be so much more cost effective to make something and transfer if 1000s of miles to users instead of a few hundred, especially as everyone is supposedly making similar wages from the work across Europe. If you can pay a Spanish guy almost the same as a English man would have earned, but then move the item hes made on a truck or two and a ship, then fundamentally there is a problem with that system start to finish. In my limited experience the problem is usually caused by some twat in a suit somewhere stacking scales against working people in one country to benefit the ones in his own. And if we have the opportunity to tip them back in house then in the long run it might sting at first, but hopefully will come out better for us in the end.

    The motor trade might employ a million of above average skill people, but that's where it now ends, the parts are made abroad, the profits go abroad, even the equipment to manufacture the stuff that is made here is imported from another country....

    If brexit does have the effect of reignite some manufacturing - of mundane items as well as high end stuff the ripples could kick start a real string of benefits for towns like mine. We've got to look smaller than we do now, not just concentrate on the head line work.



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    Last edited by DLowe; 16-01-2021 at 22:17.

  17. #37
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
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    Apologies, I should learn to read. I said I was supid. I read it wrong and overreacted

    I do think the industry will adapt, they have to. I just think the cars that are currently being released are absolutely insane. It is like when the first SUVs were brought out, fine you can sit up high, but now everyone has to sit up high. That added weight and reduced aerodynamics. Was it the Espace that literally had two steel rams running the length of the car that would massacre anything it had a head on crash with? So everyone had to copy.

    If we could somehow reduce the freight on the road we could all be driving 800kg, 80bhp cars around. Just to work mind. That sounds like no fun at all.

    I do think the EU should have got together with the Americans and ripped VW apart for Dieselgate. I don't like stating people should be locked up, but some should be doing time for it. If they are and I've missed it, good.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    I can only talk from a stoke on Trent perspective...

    The motor trade might employ a million of above average skill people, but that's where it now ends, the parts are made abroad, the profits go abroad, even the equipment to manufacture the stuff that is made here is imported from another country....
    You haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about mate. Vauxhall’s factory in Luton is over 40% locally sourced components. I’m not going to waste my breath decomposing anymore of your statements because you’re spouting absolute nonsense.

  19. #39
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    So there's 60% that could be sourced from here if the chatges now make us competitive....

    https://www.driving.co.uk/news/motor...e-hard-brexit/

    Though the article above suggests that as much as 75% cones from the EU and some even go back and forth between countries....

    And it looks like vauxhall are a real exception for cars built in the UK, Honda and Toyota use far far less locally sourced parts.

    Imagine if they all just sourced something as small as M6 bolts from a new UK supplier (I don't know if they already do or not, just an example), the amount of new jobs it would create just to keep them in stock in the amount required, then what about plastic plugs, another small thing that could employ loads

    Our company use thousands of high voltage joints a year, currently sourced from a duch company at about 800 quid a throw, due to some corrupt deal struck up in the eon days... before that we used prysmain kit made in Wales that was about 250 a go.

    Across the company we probably knstall 2500 ring main units a year, again French made and double what the cost was for a Brush unit made in the UK, but someone in power struck a deal with the French company, probably for a big envelope and holiday. If there is obstacles in place to get it from theres an outside chance we could start producing again, and if it reflects the past everyone will save money as it was cheaper to go local

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    Last edited by DLowe; 17-01-2021 at 00:13.

  20. #40
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    The industry works on just in time supply chains with driven down costs. Choice generates cost saving opportunities. Free trade generates cost saving opportunities. ‘Just’ switching to British suppliers with all this imaginary extra capacity limits your supply chain, strangles choice abs drives cost up.

    Where are you going to get all the extra steel from to make those bolts? Are we just going to make more steel right?

    An hour ago your suggestion was kill the industry. Now it’s ‘just’ expand its capacity.

    I am stunned at how naive you are being. I wish docwra was here.

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