Brexit Benefits

[DLowe]

Must be a councidence that we have left Europe and suddenly there's a shit load more money invested in housing.... as it was pretty much 2018 onwards that the explosion in building started round Staffordshire and Cheshire.

I compare it to 00s as that's when I started as an electrician and have been in the industry ever since and watched it go right down upto and around the 2008 crash and stay minimal until around 2018 when it started perking up ..... until this year where its gone absolutely mental

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[piman2k]

Must be a councidence that we have left Europe and suddenly there's a shit load more money invested in housing.... as it was pretty much 2018 onwards that the explosion in building started round Staffordshire and Cheshire.

it's not a coincidence. You're just wrong. I can't find any publications to corroborate an influx of increased house building attributable to Brexit.

Link me to something.

[piman2k]

Oh, to clear up, the £100bn is lost output with £40bn less to the Treasury over the next I think 7 years.

[DLowe]

Link me to something.

A link is not required..... as I said, from my perspective, which is obviously different to yours - myself and a good proportion of my friends are doing better since we have left as there seems to be more opportunities local to me.

I have seen a increase in production and employment in MY local area, you may not have and the country as a whole may tell a different story...... but for myself and the good people of stoke on trent it seems so far to have been positive, of course the ukraine war is going to now be blamed as much as brexit for any negatives or shortages.... so the truth will never be known about how bad brexit actually is/what effect it has had/how good it could have been - the same way the pandemic has had influences which have made the whole situation completely different to what it could have been.

You seem very very determined to only see the bad side of things and are very Brexit focused disregarding the idea that it MAY have been a lot better in its own right if external factors, beyond anyone's control had not been present.

The rest of Europe doesn't seen to be doing all that great either, what will happen when they start peeling away too? Can't be too long before the yellow vests are back out in France and some of my German colleagues have talked about the unhappiness over there similar to the UK.



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[piman2k]

But that is the entire point I'm making: You're judging from a very small and individual perspective.

I am throwing data after data at you about the national implications.

I'm not determined to see the bad side, I am just very much aware of the broader picture which is mostly negative. It's people like you, unfortunately (and this is not meant to insult you) that have a narrow minded view of "I'm alright Jack" that put the rest of the country into the sh*t pit it's currently in.

disregarding the idea that it MAY have been a lot better in its own right if external factors, beyond anyone's control had not been present

There was NO SCENARIO in which Brexit could have been better. Every single claim made by Leave.EU and similar has been debunked multiple times with data. Still, Brexiteers insist on "it could have been better". No chap, you got what you voted for.

the truth will never be known about how bad brexit actually is/what effect it has had/how good it could have been

Yes, it is known lol. But every time you're given an article or some data you go back to "how you feel" or "how it is in your area".

This is a perfect example of your attitude as well:

The rest of Europe doesn't seem to be doing all that great either

Nonsense. UK GDP growth is 5% behind that of the rest of Europe.

https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-o...u-since-brexit

But don't let a fact get in the way of how you feel will you.

[DLowe]

After years of deprivation you can't blame anyone in areas like ours for being narrow minded etc, since we joined the EU and the government made its way through all the countries "real" industries, mining, steel, pottery, manufacturing etc our areas have been in constant decline.

We honestly could give a toss that some financial market in London is suffering or we can't import more cheap crap or labour from Eastern Europe. For the first time in decades we are on the up side, and I should say the same is true for all our deprived areas, not just stoke our company is flat out across the country and the adverts for staff in yourkshire and Lancashire show a similar picture.

It's looks like the below average person is benefitting by having more job prospects and abilities to earn more.

And as an average is taken from all the population the super rich make it more biased towards those that are doing well, by that logic there are more poor people that rich in the country therfore its benefits more of the population.

Just the poor people don't make up the news articles and are less likely to shout about them why its biased toward those who are loosing out.

Some fishermen might be down but the average warehouse worker in the Midlands is incredibly up...... tho I doubt the fishermen have been bothered for the last 30yrs when they were doing ok

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[piman2k]

Sorry, are you going to refute the UK's GDP flagging behind the rest of Europe that you insinuated wasn't doing so well, or are you just going to ignore that like you seem to do a lot of things I give you?

I'm glad you think you're seeing growth in your area, I would never discourage it, but again this:

could give a toss that some financial market in London is suffering

is yet another sign of your naivety about how broader economies work.

Also bear in mind that the governments continued "freedoms" now we're out of the EU are constantly being directed at reducing workers rights, typically of those in the working class. So watch your back.

Some fishermen might be down

The industry is literally collapsing but sure, let's say "some".

tho I doubt the fishermen have been bothered for the last 30yrs when they were doing ok

Again, an "I'm alright jack" attitude from again, a community that voted Brexit.

[docwra]

When there are 68 million people in the country, many of whom are facing closing their businesses and firing their employees because they cant trade outside of the UK anymore what you and maybe 20 of your mates are seeing happen isnt really a basis for an argument, its the same as claiming a severe weather warning is bollocks because its not raining where you are.

Every metric from every provider shows that Brexit has had a negative effect on the economy as a whole, imports and exports, the availability of unskilled labour, its also allowing the government to ignore the North Ireland treaty, the ECHR, legislation on pollution standards and basically break international law whenever it feels like it.

We honestly could give a toss that some financial market in London is suffering or we can't import more cheap crap or labour from Eastern Europe.

And thats the problem with letting people who think like you vote on stuff like this. Its not about you and your mates, its about the country as a whole and most of it is rapidly heading to shit.
Do you really believe youre earning more, relatively speaking? Do you believe its a good thing to have more jobs available than jobseekers?

[markcro]

Just as an outside experience, my wife has ran her own little business for the last few years. All of her suppliers were UK based. She had to drop them after Brexit as costs literally doubles on some products with VAT, Duty, courier companies being greedy. So she has had to go with German and French suppliers. This fuks her up as well, as they are dearer than what the UK suppliers were. So everyone loses.

On a car note, all my Triumph, TVR stuff comes from the UK. And most of my SX stuff. Now I check as far as the US, as it may be cheaper than buying from the UK. I am really screwed for car parts! Grrr! I look at the price, and then can basically added 50% to the cost before I get it in my hand. :-( ****ing Brexit!!

I bought a tube of rear windscreen polish last week (plastic polish). 7.60 Sterling. About a tenner in Euros. End result to get it in my hand......... 24 fuking Euro!! :-0

(The couriers are parasites and are making things worse, as they have a "Brexit management fee". Total bullsh1t made up fee. )

But on the positive side, it is the model of democracy in motion. For good or bad, the choice was made and followed through. That is democracy, warts and all.

[Asht_200]

It's interesting that all these manufacturing businesses are "Thriving" when lots are saying they may have to close due to energy costs

[piman2k]

And thats the problem with letting people who think like you vote on stuff like this. Its not about you and your mates, its about the country as a whole and most of it is rapidly heading to shit.

Absolutely, couldn't agree more. It's down to individuals to vote how they feel is best, I would never say otherwise, but it is depressing how little understanding the stereotypical Brexiteer has about how a broader economy works.

Markro, it's the same for us going the other way. It's highly irritating. We now have taxes and import duties to pay here in the UK that we just didn't before. It's literally wasting our money so I've stopped buying somethings. Every time I mention it I'm told by someone I should buy British. But there are things I want that don't come from Britain, then I'm called a snob

It's interesting that all these manufacturing businesses are "Thriving" when lots are saying they may have to close due to energy costs

Nice to see you back. I agree, perhaps short term 'thriving' up to the energy crisis but that's definitely going to change. Though it's not a Brexit thing I guess.

[Asht_200]

Interesting

Kent brewery hailed as Brexit ‘export champion’ has one EU customer left

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tomer-left?amp

The Old Dairy Brewery, named in a government video, has seen sales slump because of excessive paperwork

[piman2k]

I actually saw this Brewery on a Maximillien Robispiere video. Tragic.

However its exports of bottled and keg Kent ale to countries including Italy, Germany and Sweden have slumped since the UK left the EU because of the onerous paperwork.

The brewery now has just one EU customer, a Berlin pub operator who travels to England by van to pick up the beer. The value of the Kent brewery’s annual beer exports have fallen from £600,000 to £2,000.

Virginia Hodge, export manager at the brewery, based at Tenterden, said: “Some transport companies won’t take alcohol now because of all the transit documents you need. I used to be able to make up a case of beer and send it by courier [to the EU] and now I have to send it through the full customs declaration. Our customers in Europe say they want to take British beer, but it’s just not cost effective. They’ve got to do a lot more paperwork.”

[DLowe]

I will say again.... its not me and a few mates who have seen an increase in factories and production..

It's the whole of the Midlands and south west, weather or not you see it reflected in polls or figures released by the government. I said that as a whole our company - the biggest distribution network operator in the UK has so many applications for electricity connections and upgrades that it is near impossible to keep up at our current staffing levels. This has not been the case for over 20yrs.

Whether or not this is a good thing from where you are, it's certainly positive from my seat.

All this work has not come from nowhere, so it must have had some kind of positive impact, as a whole for the country maybe/maybe not... but if your a building site labourer in Staffordshire, your now better off than you would have been....

I've spent the last 22yrs in the building industry in the Midlands, and it's NEVER been as big as it is now round here and this as a tradesmen is a positive in my area, and all these new warehouses and factories will need people to work in them - it may not be in yours...

As I've said this is an argument that can not be won by either side, its all about perspective and at the moment mine is positive.

The fact my wages as everyone else's are not going as far would be the same in or out, the world's a shit show and there's a good chance when it continues to degrade going it alone may be beneficial..... it may not, we shall have to wait and see.



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[DLowe]

"And thats the problem with letting people who think like you vote on stuff like this. Its not about you and your mates, its about the country as a whole and most of it is rapidly heading to sh"

It seems that people who think like me are the majority, otherwise brexit vote wouldn't have gone through..... that is after all the point of a democracy....

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[green_rs13]

building trade around here has only gone mental because the councils are selling off farm land or greenbelt to developers for backhander deals to build houses on. same goes for warehouses that get built and stand empty. if your lucky someone moves in and hundreds of minimum wage zero hour contract agency jobs get created, which then get hoovered up by eastern Europeans who appear from nowhere.

[markcro]

building trade around here has only gone mental because the councils are selling off farm land or greenbelt to developers for backhander deals to build houses on. same goes for warehouses that get built and stand empty. if your lucky someone moves in and hundreds of minimum wage zero hour contract agency jobs get created, which then get hoovered up by eastern Europeans who appear from nowhere.

But surely they won't appear now due to Brexit? The problem with minimum wage jobs is that none of the natives want to take them, but love bitching about they "being taken" :-)

[piman2k]

I will say again.... its not me and a few mates who have seen an increase in factories and production..

You can't even keep to your own narrative. Not 5 posts ago you said this:

as I said, from my perspective, which is obviously different to yours - myself and a good proportion of my friends are doing better since we have left

Make up your mind. As for this:

Whether or not this is a good thing from where you are, it's certainly positive from my seat.

Neither myself nor Ash nor Alex have argued that it isn't good that you're seeing growth. Our issue is that you aren't thinking broadly. Your microsection of the economy is not a reflection of the general economy.

All this work has not come from nowhere

Agreed, but just because you can't explain where it comes from doesn't mean you get to attribute it to Brexit. If you want to say Brexit has caused this, you need to prove it. But you won't.

It seems that people who think like me are the majority, otherwise Brexit vote wouldn't have gone through..... that is after all the point of a democracy....

And that is the issue. People don't grasp the damage they've done to the economy, but I suspect now Truss is here with her ERG cabinet you'll get to feel those impacts first hand.

[docwra]

A link is not required.....

It is when youre making claims that other people are claiming arent true. Like you keep doing.

Im involved with a groundwork company that employs 60 odd people, they nearly went to the wall last year and have needed bailouts to keep in business. Does this prove youre actually wrong that ? No, it doesnt, as its one company out of probably 50,000.

It seems that people who think like me are the majority, otherwise brexit vote wouldn't have gone through..... that is after all the point of a democracy....

https://www.independent.co.uk/indepe...-b2113167.html

Seems youre now in a (not inconsiderable) minority of 16 percent. This is why links are helpful when youre trying to make a case.

[DLowe]

As many buisness are surely going down the pan due to pandemic and poor government as due to brexit...

I thought this thread was looking for positives.... not saying the whole thing is a positive, I'm just pointing out that some people have seen positives since brexit... but due to everything else in the world we shall never know what the true outcome of brexit would have been.

So far as I can see what's made brexit worse than anything is politicians, the negotiations seem to have been shite and manned by people who didn't want what they are negotiating, and obviously the EU have made it as difficult as possible to leave, they will have to do that to discourage any others.

I still believe that in the long term we are better not part of a group, we can negotiate and work with other countries, but being independent gives us a get out if the whole lot collapsed.

I may be proven wrong.... or right in the long run, but the amount of issues in the world are too complex now to blame one thing and people still trying to argue and reverse what was voted is not helping any one's situation.

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