I don't even believe what I'm reading.
I don't even believe what I'm reading.
Has anyone caught season 2 of Clarkson farm
.....
Theres a scene where he is meeting with other local farmers which sums up the reasons that brexit was so popular with normal people,
The pork farmer explains how she can not sell pork to UK buisness because they can get it for 7p a kilo cheaper from the EU.
Now 7p per kilo should make no significant difference to me or you as the consumer, but when the likes of lidl and tesco add up thier millions of pounds in profit, it does become significant.
But it shouldn't be this way, the amount of extra environmental costs to transport the meat should be reason alone to pay the extra insignificant difference, but the free market meant that the big consumers will go for the cheapest no matter what and this will be the case for a hell of a lot of products.
For many businesses this is the reality, whatever the effects on the economy as a whole and whatever costs coming out have caused to bankers and board room spreadsheets for most hard working individuals who have "real" jobs and go out to graft every day this is what coming out should have meant to them, opportunities to sell local produce and manufactured goods that are not significantly more to produce and the increased costs should be easily handled by the consumer at a cost of profit for major companies which to be fair have been exploiting and extorting profits from us for years
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
So to solve that "problem", Brexit voters landed Pork farmers in a situation where there were not enough EU staff available to butcher UK Pigs and so upwards of 35,000 of them were culled and incinerated, meaning a not unsubstantial number of pig farmers made a complete and total loss. Directly in their pocket.
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/coun...-finds-3642244
And now most UK Pork sent to the EU is subject to heavy tariffs which means it's completely uncompetitive, and in fact now more of it is exported to the far corners of the world than our nearest neighbour. So that obliterates the environmental argument.
https://www.thepigsite.com/articles/...stry-and-trade
And also it's now all but pointless to try and export breeding animalsAlmost all pig meat imports into the EU, with the exception of offal, are subject to sizeable import tariffs. They range from €172 to €1,494 per tonne, depending on the cut. The high level of tariffs effectively mean that most non-EU pork is uncompetitive on the EU market, even though production costs and wholesale prices are lower in other exporting countries such as the United States, Canada and Brazil.
http://www.npa-uk.org.uk/Brexit_has_...ter_hears.html
So what can we draw from this? The only thing you can draw is that Brexit voters didn't really understand what they were voting for and voted based on a sensational headline rather than doing their research. The small, local, affects me only mentality once again showing it's an insufficient way of making such monumental decisions. I feel sorry for the farmers who voted to remain.
Edit - and to add to this, the "government" chooses to do "free trade deals" that allow lower manufacturing standards for other produce (notably Beef and Lamb, also mentioned on Clarkson's farm), to flood into the country. Which the UK legitimately cannot keep up with because it's cheaper to produce over there because of the lower standards. Brexit really has been a total lose lose for farmers.
Edit 2 - and if you've been watching S2 of CF you'll also note that his £82,000 of subsidies promised in 2015 by the Leave campaign are yet to materialise for JC (in 2022) or the rest of the country in 2023.
Last edited by piman2k; 15-02-2023 at 13:10.
Yep the subsidies are an absolute **** up, but is not not more of a reflection of poor management and lies of those in power all the way through? And again pandemics and world issues have probably distracted a lot from any decisions like this....
The impression I get is that we shouldn't be worrying about exporting meat, but stopping the import of meat and becoming more self sustainable.
Labour wise to work on farms abattoirs etc, a hit should be taken to profits to employ more people at a fair wage than exploiting cheap euro labour that doesn't know better, there was plenty to go round pre EU, why is it unattainable now? Is because everything has been allowed to be bought out and run by massive corporations so only the local guy misses out.
I ho back to pre privatisation in my industry, pre EU etc... we had 3X as many employees, everyone got paid, everyone had a specific job to do - not multiple tasks to learn and chop and change to suit. Electricity was more affordable for all.... the only thing that's changed is now there is a company demanding 3bn a year profit instead of breaking even after reinvestment to improve the network.
Yesterday I was involved in connecting another multi-multi million pound development to clean, quarry and recycle rubble for projects UK wide. The guy is running round the clock and has quadrupled his workforce in last 12 months.... yet we are still having reports the building trade is in decline. From where I sit it looks more like the profits are in decline for the hedge funds and stockholders, but booming for people who want to go work and get paid for actually doing something.
Wasn't a lot of the pig slaughter issue blamed on a lack of CO2 production following the pandemic more so than the lack of labour?
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
I can't remember how many times you've made this excuse. The Pandemic happened in 2020, the referendum was in 2016. The pandemic is not a reason for a betrayed promise. A promise the leave campaign was entirely unable to fulfil yet it marketed itself as a government in waiting. Which it wasn't.Originally Posted by DLowe
Then it's a good job you're not involved in National trade. Jesus. It's over a billion quid a year export market just on meat.
https://www.ft.com/content/088a6a01-...9-e1c4d1216276
Because in 40 or so years, the situation has changed and people move between countries to work. It's not about people "not knowing better", it's in fact the opposite, it's about people knowing how to move to the most lucrative jobs.
And this is, again, just another demonstration of your 'little man' view of the world. I can't comment if it's right or wrong what you've said, but if the industry doesn't make money for the people who invest in it, it will fail eventually.
No, it wasn't. The primary cause was lack of EU labour.
Is that not what Brexit is? A load of lies at the start and then trying to implement it with no plan?
Other than that, Pi is on the money. Yeah, 7p on a KG of Pork was bad but the response is like burning your house down because you dont like the lounge wallpaper.
I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
I may have missed it in this thread, but if there was another referendum to rejoin the EU, a recent poll suggested 58% would vote to rejoin.
Yep, every poll I've seen including those run by the Mail and Express has pointed to people wanting to rejoin the EU, but that's just never going to happen.
And even if it did, we'd never get as good a seat at the table as we had.
Is it actual brexit to blame or the people who are involved in bringing it....
Is it made worse through incompetent management or sabotaged by people who didn't want it?
I don't think it is the best option as we made our bed and had to lie in it, too far dependant on others, but the whole debacle seems to be aggrevated by the people involved more than the logistics to make it happen.
As you say the pandemic was 4yrs after we voted, but were those 4 years used productivity or not... I would say like every other government project the negotiations were only made to benefit the interests of the people directly involved in the negotiations not the greater good.
How has cheap European labour benefitted any working class UK resident? The only thing that's happened since I left school in 2000 is the wage gap narrowing between skilled workers and labourers and expanding massively from skilled labour and management.
The big question is why can't we get uk unemployed people to do the work cheap EU labour does? Is it because its impossible to survive on the wage with any kind of living standard, how can brexit be blamed for the fact that a UK employee feels they should be paid enough to live a comfortable life over a migrant worker willing to share a terrace house with 6 others and send half thier wages home to a country where the currency goes a lot further
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
Last edited by DLowe; 15-02-2023 at 15:51.
The two are intrinsically linked. If they werent massive self serving liars and told the truth about the effects then no-one would have voted for it
You may not have noticed but the people who didnt want it arent actually in power, difficult to sabotage from that position.Is it made worse through incompetent management or sabotaged by people who didn't want it?
Is the economy doing better or worse since Brexit? Do we have labour shortages? Can you go work in the 28 other countries you could previously?How has cheap European labour benefitted any working class UK resident?
Youre back to "Im alright Jack", the above have adversely affected every UK resident whether you like it or not.
Because we generally think we are above it, certainly anyone with any kind of further education, and there simply arent enough people to fill all of the jobs anyway - we have record high vacancies but record low jobseekers.The big question is why can't we get uk unemployed people to do the work cheap EU labour does?
I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
It's not an "I'm alright jack" position tho, as I said I'm seeing and speaking to countless people everyday who are doing better than ever before.
I have not seen any difference what so ever in my job as we don't have any foreign nationals doing it and I'm massively above the UK average in pay etc..... I'm speaking from an observation I make through my daily out and abouts. Not from media, not from figures...... from actual people interaction
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
DLowe, it's like you're living on a different planet. Not the first time I've said it and I doubt it will be the last.
I 100% concur with Doc's dissection of your post above. And I would add that every U.K. working class person has benefitted from
EU Labour as prices have been at record lows because supplies of labour were abundant.
You cannot deny there is an EU Labour shortage now. And if Brexit liars were right and "foreigners" had been "stealing our jobs" we wouldn't have a zillion vacancies and industries struggling.
Is it so wrong for UK people to expect a certain quality of life when they go work everyday tho?
We had moved on from victorian workhouses and during the 50s 60s and 70s our parents and grandparents enjoyed a fairly decent standard of living..... it was affordable then so why not now?
It's that places like amazon and tesco and the likes have been allowed to shut down high streets and had an abundance of cheap labour, forcing the wage down for all.
When I left school there was a competitive market, if you didnt want to learn a trade you could go work for tesco at £4 an hour.... but then Aldi came along and offered £6 so there was competition for workers, now everyone pays the flat rate of minimum wage.
Rewind pre tesco tho and we had a high street where a lot of people had a lot of opportunity, Mr butcher ran his shop a few employees getting paid enough to get along and when the shop did well they got a bit more..... now Mr butcher can only get a job in the supermarket at the same rate as everyone else, a rate that has steadily decreased in real terms to what living costs
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
Blame the Tory party and Rupert Murdochs media manipulation. Under Maggie everything was privatised resulting in sewage in the sea and the recent stint brought austerity and the rise of the corporation which has robbed everyone in the country
Oh I fully blame the government, but then was it not thatcher that joined the common market too?
When we look at who ended up owning a lot of our major players it's almost as of it was done to allow foreign ownership of our gas/electric/water/banks etc. Again who benefits most from cheaper labour? Big buisness... especially before the euro came along and we had plenty of choice from countries where a quid could take you out for the night
With our modern values and how we like to pretend we as a country are inclusive and look after everyone it's terrible to go down market drayton in summer and see the conditions our Eastern European friends lived in to go pick veg to make a land owner a shit load of money.
Or as I see first hand 6 to a terrace working 12 hours in the pets at home warehouse to send most back home to thier families..... is it really a benefit of a common market and free movement that we allow people to do the shit jobs and live in shit conditions or is it in some perverse way actually better on a humanitarian level to forcefully raise the bar by no longer having this cheap workforce available
Yes there are some serious losers in specialist lines of work such as Docs carbon fibre army, but there are 1000s more who didn't come here for a decent standard of living but to live in depressing conditions so they could export the funds to somewhere else.
As a side benefit for people where I am a lot of euro labour has now vacated the building trade and these are the jobs now available for my friends and acquaintances and they pay above minimum wage and give them opportunities they haven't had before.
Like I say you may not be experiencing the same things as I am, but from where I sit it is definitely positive at the lower end of society and in the UK ghere are a lot more at the bottom than the top.
Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
Last edited by DLowe; 15-02-2023 at 17:57.
Of course it isn't, but it isn't the EU that's driven that down. Case in point:
This again isn't the fault of the EU.
You've literally just made the point that competition is good for workers wages. I don't know if you realise that.
I really don't know what to say to this, we had a British Empire at one point as well. We had a powerful Navy. How far down pseudo-memory lane are you going to go? Again, the changes on the high street are nothing to do with the EU. So why do you keep bringing this up?
Maggies legacy still messing us up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64652142
Slightly off topic but still a cautionary tale - never vote Tory because they have lead us to this
UK joined the EU in ‘73 thatcher became pm in ‘79
There are 67.33 million people in the UK, how many of them have you managed to get round?
My Grandad used to be a Lamplighter, thanks a lot Thomas EdisonRewind pre tesco tho and Mr butcher ran his shop a few employees getting paid enough to get along ........ now Mr butcher can only get a job in the supermarket at the same rate as everyone else
I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
And he makes out like there are no independent butchers in his pretty daft analogy, of which there are loads.My Grandad used to be a Lamplighter, thanks a lot Thomas Edison
Honestly, it's like talking to someone obsessed with living in the 60s.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
