Brexit Benefits

[piman2k]

Let me try and steer back to the original topic, which seems very hard to satisfy.

The topics of the referendum were borders, laws, money and trade with the rest of the world.

So in the 6 weeks since Brexit, how have the lives of the people of the UK gotten better?

[Asht_200]

The shellfish ban isn't political. It isn't the EUs decision either. It's the standard policy applied to all third countries of which we willingly chose to become. It's also a policy that we helped write and enforce as members.

So why anyone would expect to be treated any differently to the rest of the third countries I cannot explain, beyond British exceptionalism of course.

I agree that the article 16 decision was a very bad call, but the media are absolutely focused on this one recent instance where the EU has made a bad judgement call.

You’re right. However the recent wrangling over a trade agreement, Britain did expect to get preferential treatment over other third countries


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Asht_200]

You’re right. However the recent wrangling over a trade agreement, Britain did expect to get preferential treatment over other third countries


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That’s a tough question to answer at the moment . We are in the midst of a global pandemic after-all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[piman2k]

We are in the midst of a global pandemic after-all

No, I reject that point blank. And that's exactly the spin that the government are putting on it.

There's nothing in these post-Brexit issues that would be fine if the pandemic wasn't happening.

So I put it to you again, how have people's lives gotten better since Brexit?

[Asht_200]

No, I reject that point blank. And that's exactly the spin that the government are putting on it.

There's nothing in these post-Brexit issues that would be fine if the pandemic wasn't happening.

So I put it to you again, how have people's lives gotten better since Brexit?

I’m not disagreeing with you. My point is if you ask anyone that question now, anyone’s answer would be skewed because there is a pandemic going on. Businesses are failing because of restrictions (whether you agree with those restrictions or not) if just on timescales, they aren’t having a very good time post Brexit, but Brexit has nothing to do with that. And to be fair, at this point in time, Brexit has made a minor dent in people’s lives compared with the global economic downturn caused by COVID-19. Biggest since the ‘Great Depression’ bigger than the banks failing in 2008.

Just to point out, I wasn’t slating the EU for not being able to respond as quickly with vaccine approval. Some of it is their fault, having to have a level playing field, the single market wouldn’t work without that (some EU countries could have done it themselves, but the smaller poorer ones couldn’t.) But transitioning the EMA from London to Amsterdam isn’t a minor feat. Hell the U.K. has had serious difficulties because PHE has been transitioning from Porton Down to Harlow, NIMR was moving from Mill Hill to Francis Crick institute - they didn’t even have a CL4 lab at Crick to work on Covid (they have now - but COVID-19 has now been declassified) - but maybe we have prepared for Brexit better than anticipated, but COVID-19 definitely caught everyone on the hop.

Also Boris did promise us a world class testing system, we have almost got that. Just so people are clear, VOC2020012/01 commonly known as “The U.K. variant” - it’s possible it didn’t occur here first, simply the U.K. gene sequences every test that are performed In laboratories, whereas most other countries don’t. Half of all the new variants in the world have been classified in the U.K. - just the trace system has failed

And just to clarify. I for one wanted the government to delay the Brexit proceedings whilst we were fighting COVID-19. Brexit just seemed to be a pointless exercise at the time (Brexit for the sake of Brexit) almost to divert people’s minds away from the real issue.

It’s not Spin. If you honestly believe that Brexit is the biggest issue, then what can I say?

My observations. Supposed to be a national lockdown, get people to work from home (traffic is still really busy... until it snows, then people decide they can work from home...)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[piman2k]

Brexit is the only issue we're discussing here Ash, and I've no idea why you're fixating on the pandemic. I accept that the pandemic will potentially increase the severity of some things, but to much of the current Brexit induced predicament, it is irrelevant.

Brexit means unprocessed Shellfish are now banned from transport from the UK to the EU. Pandemic is irrelevant.

Brexit means JD Sports are closing a UK warehouse in favour of a new one in Europe. Pandemic is irrelevant.

Brexit means there are 71-76 pages of paperwork required for a single shipment of a single type of fish going from the UK to the EU. Pandemic is irrelevant.

Brexit means consumers are now subject to increased cost of goods (duties, clearance fees and VAT) from the EU that they weren't previously. The Pandemic is again, irrelevant.

[Asht_200]

Brexit is the only issue we're discussing here Ash, and I've no idea why you're fixating on the pandemic. I accept that the pandemic will potentially increase the severity of some things, but to much of the current Brexit induced predicament, it is irrelevant.

You don’t get it.

So I put it to you again, how have people's lives gotten better since Brexit?

No one can quantify whether Brexit has made life better or worse with conviction because there are bigger factors to take into account

The Pandemic is again, irrelevant.

Before Covid people said the motor industry would be affected in the U.K.. Covid has affected the global motor industry far more than Brexit would affect the U.K. one

Ask people in a few years for a real quantification about how Brexit has affected them

You need to put things into perspective



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[piman2k]

It's not me that doesn't get it mate, it's you.

The motor industry has been affected, and would have been affected regardless. Read my post:

I accept that the pandemic will potentially increase the severity of some things, but to much of the current Brexit induced predicament, it is irrelevant

I am not asking anyone to quantify greater than or less than, I am asking for any example where people's lives have gotten better as a consequence of Brexit.

[Asht_200]

It's not me that doesn't get it mate, it's you.

The motor industry has been affected, and would have been affected regardless. Read my post:



I am not asking anyone to quantify greater than or less than, I am asking for any example where people's lives have gotten better as a consequence of Brexit.

I think you should have put it the other way round

“I accept Brexit may affect things. The Pandemic has affected things far more than Boris, Gove or Rees Mogg and their Brexiteering scheming ever could.....

And I still think Brexit was a stupid idea.

“Brexit will allow us to control our borders”

Priti Patel has been quoted “I said we should have shut the borders last March” politicians cannot continue to blame the EU for their shortcomings. She’s the Home Secretary. It was within her powers to close the borders, regardless of the EU. It has been in their powers, but they chose to hide and blame the EU

Fishing was a big stalemate over the trade agreement. That’s worked out well so far...

It was never going to be great due to the people doing the negotiating. Hell and back to the pandemics. Boris in the beginning couldn’t even be bothered to chair Cobra meetings because “he didn’t work at weekends”. Did you really think Brexit would be anything other than a catastrophe?

Just there are far bigger fish to fry at the moment


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[piman2k]

I have no idea why I would swap it around given that one was known to be coming, and is the subject of the thread

Even if the pandemic had not happened, the stuff I have pointed out would have.

So make believe with me the pandemic hasn't happened, what would Brexit have made better for people?

[alanjuggler]

not sure 6 weeks after it happens officially is going to be giving you much in the way of answers, the upheaval will always cause problems, if there are any opportunities for upsides, they will come later as people adapt (if possible?)

for full disclosure I voted remain but accept Brexit as a thing that has to happen, one way or another (arguments about how hamfisted it has been aside)

The only thing that naffed me off is that I paid for my Elgrand import duty last year, was 10% - as of the first of Feb this year, it would have been 6.3%. The EU will implement the same thing but just a bit slower, from memory.

sounds hideous but if there wasn't a pandemic, more people would be a bit more interested, right now Brexit is not quite forefront of people's minds.

[Asht_200]

not sure 6 weeks after it happens officially is going to be giving you much in the way of answers, the upheaval will always cause problems, if there are any opportunities for upsides, they will come later as people adapt (if possible?)

for full disclosure I voted remain but accept Brexit as a thing that has to happen, one way or another (arguments about how hamfisted it has been aside)

The only thing that naffed me off is that I paid for my Elgrand import duty last year, was 10% - as of the first of Feb this year, it would have been 6.3%. The EU will implement the same thing but just a bit slower, from memory.

sounds hideous but if there wasn't a pandemic, more people would be a bit more interested, right now Brexit is not quite forefront of people's minds.

Alan. That’s my point. There are more important things to think about

During the current situation no one can quantify if Brexit has made things worse for them or not. Especially with the amount of people on furlough. People could argue, my income would have dipped by 2% due to Brexit but is down 2 digits due to the pandemic. That 2 % to them isn’t important


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[piman2k]

During the current situation no one can quantify if Brexit has made things worse for them or not

That's just not true

If you are an Oyster fisherman in Cornwall selling into the EU, your business has collapsed overnight. Regardless of the pandemic.

If you are a Cheese producer in the UK, selling a majority into the EU, your business has collapsed overnight.

If you are a private consumer buying goods from the EU, a sizeable chunk of the things you now buy are subject to VAT and customs duties.

These things are not contingent on the pandemic Ash

[Asht_200]

That's just not true

If you are an Oyster fisherman in Cornwall selling into the EU, your business has collapsed overnight. Regardless of the pandemic.

If you are a Cheese producer in the UK, selling a majority into the EU, your business has collapsed overnight.

If you are a private consumer buying goods from the EU, a sizeable chunk of the things you now buy are subject to VAT and customs duties.

These things are not contingent on the pandemic Ash

And your arguments are the same as those arguing for Brexit (EU scooping up all our fish)

Fishing isn’t even 0.1% of GDP. Dairy was going to be impacted. What about the rest of the economy that fell 20% last year (not due to Brexit)

If you’re a private consumer, try and buy local and support these industries that are failing rather than sit back.

Farmers have also lost CAP subsidies. And for those Brexiteers.. the U.K. will still be paying into the EU coffers in 2060 (to do with what we have already committed) so we won’t even be getting that £350 million for the NHS.. which would have helped this last year and going forward

Are you one of these Covid deniers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[piman2k]

Honestly Ash I think you’ve lost the plot on this thread.

[Asht_200]

Honestly Ash I think you’ve lost the plot on this thread.

I used to respect your views. But when you use fishing and cheese to support your anti Brexit rants, when there are more important things to think of.

You really are a remoaner

I voted to remain btw, just took the blinkers off to look at the bigger picture


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Can I throw a curveball here?

Another reason why the EU was slow to react.. they didn’t have the infrastructure setup / expertise to approve so quickly. Until recently, medicine regulation for all EU nations was done in London.

Remoaner hat on, I have banged on about financial services being important etc to the U.K. I completely forgot the industry I came from. Pharmaceutical. We have some of the best on the world and are a world leader apart from one, in the EU they are predominantly generics (making cheap copies when a drug goes off patent)

Pfizer’s European regulatory is in Canterbury, Astrazenica is based in the U.K. you don’t honestly think they haven’t been talking to the MHRA throughout the clinical trials process / research.

It’s simple really (well not simple). The U.K. had a head start over Europe

Oh and
To anyone who thinks the U.K. cut corners... the MHRA are among the most bureaucratic organisations going. The amount of pharmacovigilance required to get these vaccines approved is mammoth. We simply had the people and the experience to get it approved faster. That’s all. It’s not political conspiracy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

...and the EU/EMA only had a full four years to get their shit together and feck off to Holland (If it's good for the goose...)

[piman2k]

Ash, you’re talking nonsense.

Answer me this, with a yes or no. It’s not a trap, it’s trying to make you understand context.

Is the imposition of the ban on live unprocessed shellfish on the U.K. to the EU, a standard trading condition of any third country to the EU, conditional in anyway on the existence of the pandemic?

[Jonny Wilkinson]

That's just not true

If you are an Oyster fisherman in Cornwall selling into the EU, your business has [I]collapsed overnight[I/]. Regardless of the pandemic.

If you are a Cheese producer in the UK, selling a majority into the EU, your business has [I]collapsed overnight[I/].

If you are a private consumer buying goods from the EU, a sizeable chunk of the things you now buy are subject to VAT and customs duties.

These things are not contingent on the pandemic Ash

Oh no ! Didn't anyone tell them 4 fecking years ago that Brexit was going to happen ? That's really shoddy. Let's find out who was responsible for not telling them and burn them at the stake in true SXOC fashion

Pieman, the reason you are not getting any sensible answers to your question is because it is a stupid question.

I've been trying to get divorced for over 2 years. When the notice finally comes through of my Decree Absolute, I'm not going to be asking whether I am better off financially or if its easier for me to do this or that on the first day.

I might have a little party because it is over and start thinking about how I can change my life to move in the direction that suits me but it will take years before I know whether I'm happy I made the decision, whether my life is better overall.

[Asht_200]

...and the EU/EMA only had a full four years to get their shit together and feck off to Holland (If it's good for the goose...)

I don’t think any of us, let alone the halfwits who were making the decisions had any idea how difficult this would be.

When there has been a pharmaceutical focus in Europe around the U.K. and Switzerland for decades, how do you convince those people to sort the EMA out? In the EU?

I accept we are out so we make the best of it. But we should also acknowledge people vote because of what they perceive will be best for them without having the bigger picture.

It’s easy to move a bank. Not so easy to relocate pharmaceutical



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro