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Thread: Brexit Benefits

  1. #641
    Member alanjuggler's Avatar
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    The food inspection centres I hadn't seen - that is utterly ridiculous, though don't have an i account so can't read the full thing - is that for food safety inspections as well as customs/excise?

    On the labour shortages, I do have some sympathy for the idea that the EU exit caused labour shortages, though that'd suggest that it's not currently a problem elsewhere if you're inside the EU, though in reality other countries are still having issues.

    https://www.dw.com/en/is-germanys-sk...yth/a-64767762 (no, but a more flexible market could help)

    https://www.dw.com/en/trainee-shorta...oes/a-62974599

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/23/b...ance-jobs.html

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...es-2023-02-02/

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post...labor-shortage

    They all seem to want the same thing, which is more migrants - but given it's an EU wide issue, they're often mentioning non-EU sources, so I don't think it stacks up to say it's purely Brexit - whilst it's likely made it worse, it likely would still be an issue.

    the other thing is the actual numbers of migrants entering the UK is running at what pretty high numbers, thanks to the success of the HK/BNO & Ukraine resettlement schemes. I think there's more fundamental issues to address here both in the supply of labour and in the demand side of it, with many small fixes needed rather than one big fix being a silver bullet.
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  2. #642
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    There is an irony in Brexiteers being happy at Ukrainians being allowed almost wholesale access to the country without jobs or visas but the resentment of hard working, secured employment EU workers.

    Never meant to suggest Brexit was THE cause of the labour shortage, but we are the most severely affected nation and we're the only ones who made our migrant labour force feel unwelcome.

    Revised link to the previous article:

    https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit-food...r-used-2223985
    Last edited by piman2k; 22-03-2023 at 13:10.

  3. #643
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    Re: migration, according to CNN, last year migration from Nigeria was up 700% and migration from sub-saharan Africa up 2500%.

    These are likely to be small numbers by the by, but the trend is growing.

    Racists beware.

  4. #644
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    Can the whole lack of EU migrants be totally put down to brexit tho..... yes a small part of it, but if you can come from Africa, Thailand, India, Canada, wherever else its obviously not that restricted not having "free" movement - they just need to do what the people in these other countries are doing, probably just an extra form and a legitimate reason to come before they arrive.

    But again we circle back to the pandemic playing an undeniable role, remember the trouble to get back out again and travel restrictions..... also how badly treated the "key workers" were as it only seemed to be minimum wage jobs that were key to the market.

    Perhaps there's a lot of EU people who don't want to return following that experience and now the global economy has bought the £ € $ to almost 1-1 (conspiracy theories at the ready) there is less insensitive to come and earn a comparable hourly rate

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  5. #645
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    Can the whole lack of EU migrants be totally put down to brexit tho..... yes a small part of it, but if you can come from Africa, Thailand, India, Canada
    Perhaps there's a lot of EU people who don't want to return following that experience and now the global economy has bought the £ € $ to almost 1-1 (conspiracy theories at the ready) there is less insensitive to come and earn a comparable hourly rate
    This is a rather large misinterpretation of FoM and immigration policies.
    Before Brexit ANYONE with an EU passport could come here and start working, just like that. No VISAs, no points system, just pitch up and start earning, any social security you receive would transfer over and healthcare would be free, youre still paying into your pension and you also get unemployment benefit if you lose your job.
    Now, ANYONE who wants to come in has to apply for an be issues a Skilled Work VISA. This requires a job offer, ability to speak English, generally a higher level qualification and doesnt allow any benefits or you to move to another employer, if you lose your job you get deported. Slight difference.
    Unless you are from Ukraine, Hong Kong or have managed to get onto the Afghan Resettlement scheme; these people effectively have the same rights as EU nationals pre Brexit. Or one of the "shortage" workers that will now be redefined to add more jobs every week. See the problem with that?

    Youre totally wrong on the GBP/EUR rate as well, its broadly the same as 5 years ago, give it a google ......... but cost of living, taxation and energy costs are much higher here than they used to be, these are all affected by Brexit.
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  6. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe
    but if you can come from Africa, Thailand, India, Canada, wherever else its obviously not that restricted not having "free" movement
    All you're doing now is showing you don't understand how FoM works.

    Regardless, the other point you're missing is that you've been dying on the cross of "more jobs for my mates trades" for about 20 pages and now the government has issued a "shortages list" for a plethora of trades which makes it easier for people from outside the EU to come into those jobs.

    So you've just swapped one kind of migration for another. You've made economic migration much more expensive for regular employers (min salary requirements even for seasonal workers) and made it easier for people from outside the EU to come and take those jobs anyway.

    Edit - to add to doc's point, the EUR/GBP exchange is almost the same now as it was in 2010 but the cost of living in the UK is amongst the worst in Europe. Our rate of inflation is significantly higher than that of the Eurozone, the EU, Germany, take your pick.

    And inflation is heavily fuelled by higher wage prices which can be credited to labour shortages and reduced net trade.

    It's not even difficult stuff to fathom. And please stop waffling on about the pandemic. We are the only G7 country that hasn't got an economy back to pre-pandemic levels. We are the the only G7 country that made it difficult to trade with it's single, biggest trading partner.
    Last edited by piman2k; 23-03-2023 at 14:38.

  7. #647
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    OBR has formally recognised that Brexit economic damage is the same magnitude as COVID damage.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...08178.html?amp

    That's not saying it's bad because it coincided with COVID, that's saying it's done as much damage as COVID did in addition.

    Go Brexit.

  8. #648
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    Even Google AI thinks Brexit was a bad idea

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...exit-bad-idea/

    Google’s artificial intelligence chatbot Bard has been accused of Left-wing bias after calling Brexit a “bad idea” and saying the UK “would have been better off” staying in the EU....

  9. #649
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    So the Paris financial markets are now officially more valuable than the UK after the transfer of assets and jobs into the EU post Brexit

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...k-market-paris

    And it's from the pro-Brexit Express of all places. Note that the retort is from Ben Habib, who I don't need to remind you has been wrong about just about everything Brexit related so far. He says it's our own fault for not making the most of Brexit, whatever that means He appears to actually blame EU regulations that the UK still has in place from the 2008 financial crisis for the reason we're doing badly, even though the Parisian market is playing by those same rules.

    Interesting

  10. #650
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    Yeah, Paris is doing really, really well at the moment.......

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  11. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    Yeah, Paris is doing really, really well at the moment...
    You're not seriously going to try and offset that fact about the financial markets with the pension rioting are you? Even you wouldn't be that silly.

  12. #652
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    Obviously not..... but it will have an effect on markets and as they've only been on the rampage for a couple weeks there's not a true reflection of its outcome...

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  13. #653
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    What are you trying to say? The French financial markets exceeded the performance of the UK weeks ago, are you trying to infer that the banking sector is affected by riots? Clutching a bit here aren't you.

    Edit - is that your retort? That a continued trend of outperforming the UK over years which has culminated in a net value of higher than that of the UK will somehow be undermined or wiped out by a couple of weeks of pension riots?
    Last edited by piman2k; 30-03-2023 at 07:02.

  14. #654
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
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    I don't understand the logic here? The riots in France are bad? but somehow have inflated the financial market?

    or they're having a negative effect on the market, which despite that is still outperforming our own??

  15. #655
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    Me either That's why I'm asking what this means:

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe
    but it will have an effect on markets and as they've only been on the rampage for a couple weeks there's not a true reflection of its outcome
    Maybe he means the riots are going to devalue the French European financial markets by billions of euros. Which seems unlikely lol.

  16. #656
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    I'm just saying things are probably not as rosie and good in the EU as we see in the media and is reported online....

    Yet again we have seen very very little reported of the latest upset and as always what we do see is cherry picked to appeal to its audience.

    I applaud them for sticking up for thier retirement etc, I really wish we had the bollocks in this country, but that coupled with £3 a cucumber and yellow vest protests it doesn't make France look a very pleasant place to be doing buisness with

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  17. #657
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    So your response to the fact posted is to completely change the subject.

    And jostle into another conspiracy theory.

    Brilliant

  18. #658
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    Anyway, moving on from that wildly odd few posts...

    The UK's membership of the CPTPP, you know, that economic union with countries on the other side of the world, the one that Brexiteers told us was amazing, is now set to benefit the UK economy by 0.08% after TEN YEARS.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65124741

    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    The government's own estimates show being in the bloc will only add 0.08% to the size of the UK's economy.

    The trade area covers a market of around 500 million people.

    Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said the deal demonstrated the "real economic benefits of our post-Brexit freedoms".
    Couldn't agree more Rishi
    Last edited by piman2k; 31-03-2023 at 07:16.

  19. #659
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Kemi Badenoch did the media circuit to big up CPTPP this morning and could help but sing the praises of the EU:
    "Being in a big trading bloc means you have more influence"
    "Its the first time weve joined a bloc like this in 50 years, theres strength in numbers"

    Unlike the EU as CPTPP already exists we have to accept their terms and standards without any input ourselves, so we're back to hormone beef and GM veg.
    Oh, and somehow joining CPTPP means Palm Oil is now OK, brilliant.
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  20. #660
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    Radio 4 was also saying we have to, yet again, accept lower farming standard imports, though I didn't catch the details.

    But if you were a farmer thinking that the government was doing everything it could to make it impossible for you to trade, the unreplaced EU subsidies, the Australia trade deal, then this, well, it would really make you think they were serious.

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