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Thread: Brexit Benefits

  1. #361
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    Honestly that post is the most monumental pile of sh1te I have read all week.

  2. #362
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    What was it like where you are?

    In stoke we suffered many years of EDL and Britain first marches, gradually gaining in size which cumulated into a majority leave vote,

    The same will have happened in the other leave areas..

    Why would you not think the same could happen abroad? One thing people are very good at is showing mob mentality can easily over rule rational thoughts.

    Can you not remember 2019 and the weekly yellow vest riots? Did you not see this years french election?

    I don't think civil unrest is far fetched by any means, just wait until the energy and food prices kick in this winter

    Like Doc said above, I don't think if someone like Brussels left it would have a massive effect, but if France went as the "gateway" to Europe for us I think it would have been an even bigger shit show than now with customs etc

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  3. #363
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    Nothing that you are saying is relevant.

    I don't care about if a "Frexit" might happen. To say that France might leave the EU makes us leaving the EU a good idea is stupid.

    Once again, you keep saying that we might be better of eventually if some event happens. Give me an example of what you think that event could be. Because otherwise you're just talking sh1te.

  4. #364
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    I have to say that I don't get that logic of "France might leave", so the UK were right to leave first, just in case they actually do leave (which they wont). And if they did leave, then the UK's main entry to Europe for goods would switch to the Netherlands or Belgium which both countries would very much welcome. And both have major road networks to the rest of Europe just like France does. It would be France losing out, so what if they did leave? They only screw themselves. (Obviously ferry transit would have to be the main route and the Channel Tunnel would be reduced to tourists for the most part.)


    And fair play for the commitment of keeping the conversation going. It is just a pity other threads on the site aren't as active.
    Last edited by markcro; 23-09-2022 at 15:44. Reason: High on solvent and stale crisps

  5. #365
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    So France leave and its not so bad, we move to rotterdam Harbour..... but then the Dutch farmers are protesting the EU..... food supply is quite important and is the kind of thing people will take an interest in joining protests.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-58840076.amp

    There's Poland threatening to leave, and Italy has not long had its own version of a brexit party launch and start to gain momentum.

    We may have just got off the titanic before the iceberg

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  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    So France leave and its not so bad, we move to rotterdam Harbour..... but then the Dutch farmers are protesting the EU..... food supply is quite important and is the kind of thing people will take an interest in joining protests.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...e-58840076.amp

    There's Poland threatening to leave, and Italy has not long had its own version of a brexit party launch and start to gain momentum.

    We may have just got off the titanic before the iceberg

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    Why would Dutch farmers protest about additional goods transportation going through their country, and hence income for the country? Poland will not leave the EU. They are at "Ireland 1990s" stage where all the EU funding is doing big things for the advancement of the country. They will drag out changing to the Euro for as long as possible, and I understand why. But I see the changes in Poland today versus 10 years ago being massive. Like Ireland today is totally different to Ireland in the early 1990s. And that is good and bad. But more good than bad.

    And even if France and Poland left the EU, why should that have any effect on the decision on the UK leaving or staying anyway? Even moreso, why should the "hypothetical" leaving have any effect on the decision on the UK leaving or staying anyway?

    Anyway, I think this is going on a tangent to the original thread?
    Last edited by markcro; 23-09-2022 at 16:47. Reason: Dreaming of a bag of glue and a chapstick

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    We may have just got off the titanic before the iceberg
    You are quite literally living in a fantasy. It is embarrassing at this point.

    https://europeelects.eu/eu-membership-approval/

    Get off the internet. Stop reading The Express. Engage whatever is left of your critical thinking skills.

    Still no answer to what event you think would mean we are better off out in the future. Highly probably because you have no answer.

  8. #368
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    The Dutch farmers are protesting against EU restrictions on hhe amount of cattle and sprays they can use making thier farms unsustainable

    I don't have an answer as we are not there.... however it shall surely be easier for us to negotiate terms with a single country than a block who all have different interest to look after, if it isn't we need to question the people negotiating, not the system.



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    Last edited by DLowe; 23-09-2022 at 18:16.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    I don't have an answer as we are not there....
    We don't have to be "there". All I've done is ask you time and time again what kind of event might have to happen to make being outside of the giant bloc of countries better than being a part of them. But you can't mate, and it's because you don't know. My guess is most of your interaction and comments are on social media where they quickly fade down the list and this is one of the first times you've had to rigorously defend your statement.

    I don't see any future event occurring that would make it better to be outside of the EU than in it. If the EU disintegrated overnight then sure, lots of countries would want to do lots of deals. But that doesn't mean the first one out gets the best deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    however it shall surely be easier for us to negotiate terms with a single country than a block who all have different interest to look after
    This is the only sensible thing you've said in about 3 pages. And I agree with it.

    But what I think you're neglecting to think about has already been pointed out to you several, neigh, many times: Negotiating Power.

    27 countries and 440 million people may take longer to agree a deal, but they have far more weight and bargaining power behind them to force the terms of any deal to be favourable. This is attested to by the EU trade deals being demonstrably better than the ones the UK has struck on its own.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    The Dutch farmers are protesting against EU restrictions on hhe amount of cattle and sprays they can use making thier farms unsustainable

    I don't have an answer as we are not there.... however it shall surely be easier for us to negotiate terms with a single country than a block who all have different interest to look after, if it isn't we need to question the people negotiating, not the system.



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    That still would be nothing to do with transportation of goods into Europe through their ports if France left.
    For good or bad those EU restrictions are for if you have to kill the land with over spraying/ fertilizing, then your farm probably is unsustainable. I am 3 miles from a fishing village. About 5 years ago the EU banned fishing in this part of the Irish Sea with the exception of shellfish. The whole fishing fleet had to move nearly 200km down the coast to fish in the Celtic Sea. Big uproar and upset people. But for good or bad, this EU ban was to protect the low fish stocks, and basically says, do you want to fish until extinction? Or shall be put a ban in place until the fish have recovered enough so that fishing can restart?
    Nothing is perfect, and you can't please everyone. And without doubt there is a lot of bullshit with the EU, but alot of it at least has good intentions. Lobbying and protests/rallies should always, always continue to keep them the fat cat rule makers on their toes so that things change for the better/ people are considered/ rules are made with common sense.

    I constantly complain about the EU and their stupid rules and regulations, but at the same time I know that membership positives outweighs the negatives (mostly). I'm going bow out here as what's done is done. But I will still read with interest.

  11. #371
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    I'm well aware the EU restrictions are for everyone's benefit ..... but for the Dutch farmers that's a lot of lively hood going to dissappear and not many other carrear options, a lot like when our pottery and steel and mining disappeared.

    It's the kind of thing that can turn a nation against it.

    The same for the yellow vest movement, it doesn't matter anymore what policy's are, there's enough people totally ****ed off with a situation, rational thought doesn't come into it.

    When the energy and food crisis kicks in properly from Ukraine I would bet a good breakfast that more movements shall start across the EU

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  12. #372
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    So that's now Italy back with a black shirt in charge,

    Frances national front shall probably be in next vote,

    Sweedens second biggest political party is a national one

    And Hungary & Poland with far right eurosceptic governments.

    And you think I'm crazy for suggesting more EU countries will probably be thinking about leaving

    Like I say, it's not about thinking rational, emotions are driving votes. So was checking out early the worst decision, granted probably not the best in the short term ..... but it should put us ahead in the que.

    And if others leave the remaining EU will probably be a bit more interested in sorting some issues out, if nothing more than to spite the next leavers

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    Last edited by DLowe; 26-09-2022 at 11:21.

  13. #373
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    The new Italian party that Meloni represents does not have a mandate or manifesto to leave the EU. They rode the populist wave of wanting to reform the EU and have committed to European Integration.

    Hungary is also not on course to leave the EU and is still polling overwhelmingly as pro-EU.

    Why do other countries political destinies obsess you so much? No right minded country is going to look at what happened to the U.K. economy and go "yeah, let's have us a bit of that".

    It's also way, way off topic.

  14. #374
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    So that's now Italy back with a black shirt in charge,
    And you think I'm crazy for suggesting more EU countries will probably be thinking about leaving
    No-one has said youre crazy, just that its not relevant to this thread or the Brexit decision in any way.
    We voted in 2016; its now 2022 and we still arent properly out. France doesnt have another election for 5 years, so youre realistically looking at Frexit at least 15, if not 20 years after we took the vote. Are you telling us we should have considered what the French *might* do in 2031 when we voted?

    And if others leave the remaining EU will probably be a bit more interested in sorting some issues out, if nothing more than to spite the next leavers
    What issues? Compare the EU's current situation with the total shitshow in the country that recently left the EU (and is breaking at least 4 international laws as I type), why would anyone want to leave a prosperous, secure and significant union to get the "benefits" we are seeing?
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
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    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  15. #375
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    It is not on thier manifesto to leave.... but neither was it on David Camerons,

    I am using it as an example to say that the normal people in these countries are starting to change thier voting and opinions..... like we did in the UK.

    I know it was 6 yrs ago when we left, but we could write 2 of those off due to pa demic and no one acting normally.... so it's 4yrs in my book or 1 term of a government.

    The reason posted about it is that we could be ahead of the curve should it start to fall apart, which would in my opinion be a benefit. It hasn't happened yet, and I'm sure piman will be along shortly with a massive list of reasons why it won't happen - but if you close your eyes and use some imagination, it's not that far fetched it might and one would hope that some bridges have already been made to smooth our integration with individual countries.

    When I say negotiations out of spite, I watched a dispatches special about brexit and all the new rules they have to adhere to and to be quite honest it was absolutely ridiculous some of the obstacles pit in the way.

    One was a lobster fisherman who has to send his fish from the south to Glasgow to be checked then onwards to Europe through the tunnel.

    If that is true then 1 - what absolute tool drempt up that only one place can authorise the fish for transport + why Scotland not a central location?
    2 - someone from the EU is being an arse on purpose not allowing any other form of authorisation to export as it makes no sense whatsoever other than its been done to purposely make an award process.

    And if the same kind of issues are seen in other areas then I can only conclude that someone's taking the piss


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  16. #376
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    I wasn't saying to take into account what France might do in 2030 or whenever ....

    I mean that we are where we are at, its done and when looking for a benefit, it might be one.

    Again not dwelling on negatives in a situation already happening.

    The titanics sinking, the iceberg has already been hit..... do you stand on deck and go under or do you look for a life boat?

    Or in this case try to hang on to a wardrobe door ......


    And as I said, the whole situation is a shit show and it's mostly very bad... but there have been a few people who have benefited, I've seen a local improvement.. . The country as a whole has not, but if your a Staffordshire tradesman its been beneficial so far, the thread asked for benefits... these are for some, not for all. I AGREE THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE LOSING SO FAR


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    Last edited by DLowe; 26-09-2022 at 19:08.

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    It is not on thier manifesto to leave.... but neither was it on David Camerons
    Yes it was. He literally said that if the Tories won the election then there would be a referendum.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    I know it was 6 yrs ago when we left, but we could write 2 of those off due to pa demic and no one acting normally.... so it's 4yrs in my book or 1 term of a government.
    That doesn't make any sense. Government didn't stop and you have in fact had 3 Governments since the referendum.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    The reason posted about it is that we could be ahead of the curve should it start to fall apart, which would in my opinion be a benefit.
    But you keep saying this and you never say what you think it means. I have lost count of how many times I've asked you to explain to me what kind of event you think will happen that will make it so it's better to be out of the world's biggest trading bloc than in.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    I'm sure piman will be along shortly with a massive list of reasons why it won't happen - but if you close your eyes and use some imagination, it's not that far fetched
    Thank you for perfectly summing up to me why you shouldn't have been able to vote. Me: fact, fact, fact, government data, polling opinions. You: "Use your imagination"

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    I watched a dispatches special about brexit and all the new rules they have to adhere to and to be quite honest it was absolutely ridiculous some of the obstacles pit in the way.
    And we helped write those rules to make it better to buy things from within the EU, which was to our advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    One was a lobster fisherman who has to send his fish from the south to Glasgow to be checked then onwards to Europe through the tunnel.

    If that is true then someone from the EU is being an arse on purpose not allowing any other form of authorisation to export as it makes no sense whatsoever other than its been done to purposely make an award process.
    No sir, I would bet my bottom dollar that the EU are just insisting we follow the rules that all third countries do.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    And if the same kind of issues are seen in other areas then I can only conclude that someone's taking the piss
    Yes, the UK is! By refusing to implement the terms of the deal it drafted and signed because we have realised that there's no way to hide just how damaging Brexit is to our economy, so we have to postpone forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by DLowe View Post
    The titanics sinking, the iceberg has already been hit..... do you stand on deck and go under or do you look for a life boat?
    According to who? The EU countries are outperforming the UK by almost every economic metric: GDP, Inflation, cost of living. And yet you still believe it's the EU that's struggling and not the UK.

  18. #378
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    I've never claimed the EU is struggling and we are not, quite the opposite ..... I am saying that these political parties would not have been voted in 10yrs ago but they are gaining momentum, it reflects public opinion which is changing and as I said and has been shown in the past. When people feel pushed to breaking point then reason goes out the window. And the current climate is pushing people to thier limits, not through brexit or even the EU structure or rules, but when people are fed up they want change whether good or bad, just something different. Which is why these parties are gaining momentum and thier positions on EU membership could change.

    You keep asking for facts, as I said its my opinion and its hypothetical. There are no facts but I have posed the question what if? No one seems to be able to answer the what if, we keep coming back to what has - which I agree is not good.

    I'm looking for possible benefits, I know the thread was started to "prove" there are none, but could there be, expend your mind to look for any positives and for a change let's discuss something that could be.

    As for the "why people like you should not be aloud to vote" the whole point of a democracy is everyone gets to vote for better or worse they vote for what they think is right for them, your opinion doesn't somehow make mine less qualified, however statements such as that do make me believe your vote probably is not worth the same as you obviously believe you are more entitled to it than anyone else, I have never contested your right to... just because its of a different perspective, infact what makes you so sure I voted to leave? I am just pointing out how other people, most of which I know are and have been struggling to get by for decades could possibly view the EU and why they would have voted for brexit.


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  19. #379
    Guest DLowe's Avatar
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    I'm finding it difficult on a phone to quote and answer but...

    "But you keep saying this and you never say what you think it means. I have lost count of how many times I've asked you to explain to me what kind of event you think will happen that will make it so it's better to be out of the world's biggest trading bloc than in."

    I'm saying if the world's biggest trading block starts to break up and some of the big players such as France & Italy leave would we not be in a better position to deal with them individually than when they were part of the group? The same as discussion on a world stage, yes we were in a worse position not being part of the EU, but if others start to go it alone then we should be in a better position having been in discussions for longer/started earlier

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  20. #380
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    No one has answered the What If that you keep posing because it is irrelevant. Doc even called you out on it a few posts ago.

    You shouldn't be allowed to vote if you don't understand what you're voting for. The idea that everyone should get a say just because they live here is dumb. I live here but they don't let me drive F1 cars because I'm unqualified. If people don't understand what the political choices they make can achieve then why should they get a say?

    Even if France and Italy magically left the EU, despite sizeable polling in the real world to the contrary, the EU would still be the biggest trading bloc in the world.
    Last edited by piman2k; 26-09-2022 at 21:55.

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