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Thread: Let’s make Britain Great again

  1. #21
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    US has the highest prescription drugs cost in the world. Almost double any other country...

    Anyone who think they will do us a good deal and not bump the price up that the NHS pays already is delusional idealist who needs to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, not focusing on Conservative vs Labour or Corbyn vs Johnson.
    Regardless of what party is currently in charge, you need to look at the individuals, not the party they represent. The majority of them is just rich men and women who want to get richer and help their backers get richer without any consideration for the damage they cause.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    My girlfriend works for the NHS and says it isn’t being privatised.
    Well that's the strongest piece of evidence I've heard to say that the NHS isn't being privatised. My neighbour told me that the earth is flat and NASA has been lying to us...

  3. #23
    Guest arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Oh I disagree with you there bud, massively!

    American healthcare systems are profit generators, with business returns. Our NHS, en masse, isn't. The interests of the patient trump the interest of the shareholder.

    I don't want to pay health insurance.
    I'm not saying it SHOULD be done, I'm saying the political smokescreening is complete BS. If it's done, it'll be because it's competitive - the framework of the NHS doesn't just change overnight because of a trade deal.

    3.1.2 Competitive pricing and contract coverage
    There are robust mechanisms to ensure the NHS obtains competitive prices for medicines
    whilst ensuring that the UK remains a commercially attractive marketplace for pharmaceutical
    companies. Strategies employed to ensure that this balance is maintained include
    • Quarterly benchmarking of branded medicine prices by CMU, PMSG and the devolved
    nations
    • Use of a mid-contract CMU price review mechanism for branded medicines to match to
    the best price identified through benchmarking
    • Horizon scanning to ensure contracts are not awarded just before a significant change in
    the market price for example within a few months prior to patent expiry
    • Contractual obligation for suppliers of generic medicines to reimburse Trusts if their
    contracted line cannot be supplied and as a consequence Trusts have to pay a higher
    price from an alternative supplier. A procedure for managing off contract claims for
    generic medicines has been agreed with the British Generic Manufacturers Association.
    And surprise surprise, we already get a fair % of our drugs from the US - so what of it?

    What is the current situation?
    At the moment, according to the Office for National Statistics, 9% of all medicines imported by the NHS come directly from the US. In contrast, 79% of medicine imports come from the European Union. But, Dr Hill says, this figure is likely to underestimate the proportion of drugs coming from American manufacturers, because some US companies sell drugs into the UK via other countries.
    Presumably that sneaky 10% is just about the fat cats getting fatter is it?

    It's bullshittery of the highest order.

  4. #24
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    God not this bloody NHS sell off thing again, its perpetuated by facebook know it alls and is complete rubbish.

    But hey lets bash boris for something he aint done while ignoring the open goals he leaves for everyone else.

  5. #25
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arry View Post
    Forty five years out of 75 it has been in existence the Tory government has been secretly getting rid of the NHS.

    Ah but it's happening by stealth! Riiiiigght. Christ it's lame.
    Few questions spring to mind off the back of this:

    Why did the Tory whip demand they vote against the bill to prevent control outside of the UK? Why do it right now?
    Why would Matt Hancock vote for this when he said last year "The NHS isn’t on the table in trade talks — and never will be. Not on my watch"
    The leaked documents last year - why did the Tories not ever deny they were an actual report? Was it because this was the actual report?
    Why did Trump specifically refer to the NHS when asked about trade deals in April 2019?
    Why have we stated that any trade deal would provide "full market access for US products" - thats not what we do now is it? They need to be registered, go through approval and have a local office.

    It seems pretty obvious to me that we are going to be absolutely desperate to get some trade deals in place as soon as we have left the EU and in light of this abolition of legislation, the animal welfare/food standards legislation, cutting foreign aid (bet you didnt hear about that one) when their manifesto clearly stated none of these things would happen is the same as cleaning your house up before the estate agent comes to take pictures.
    The NHS will always be supported by the private sector but it shouldnt become reliant on it and certainly should start changing the way it works to pander to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra
    It seems pretty obvious to me that we are going to be absolutely desperate to get some trade deals in place as soon as we have left the EU
    Absolutely.

    What I have particularly burned my brain about is how "people" refuse to acknowledge even these most basic things:

    • A US trade deal, even in the exact format the Govt. says we want, is forecast to not make up for the increase in cost of trade with the EU due to tariff barriers
    • The US has categorically stated that the trade deal we want will not be delivered as we want it
    • The Australian trade deal will increase trade with the UK to the tune of just about fcuk all
    • They keep saying "we can trade with the rest of the world" and ignore that we trade with all of the world that matters, is wealthy and wants goods or services from the UK

    Course: Oblivion!

    If the Tories had no intention of further privatising the NHS, selling off components of it or introducing damaging legislation then they would have signed Clause 17 and that would have been the end of it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike41288 View Post
    US has the highest prescription drugs cost in the world. Almost double any other country...

    Anyone who think they will do us a good deal and not bump the price up that the NHS pays already is delusional idealist who needs to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, not focusing on Conservative vs Labour or Corbyn vs Johnson.
    Regardless of what party is currently in charge, you need to look at the individuals, not the party they represent. The majority of them is just rich men and women who want to get richer and help their backers get richer without any consideration for the damage they cause.
    Just remember the NHS don’t use primarily branded drugs, they use generics and the largest generic manufacturers are European and Israeli

    The NHS is the world’s largest employer and one of our most valued assets

    Tory, Labour, they have both shit upon it


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  8. #28
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    As above, and part of the draft documents that appeared on the scene showed that the US would be asking the UK to mandate supply of certain drugs to be from US based suppliers.

    Literally taking control of drug prices from the UK responsible bodies and giving control to US private corporations.

    You can't make it up.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    Few questions spring to mind off the back of this:

    Why did the Tory whip demand they vote against the bill to prevent control outside of the UK? Why do it right now?
    Why would Matt Hancock vote for this when he said last year "The NHS isn’t on the table in trade talks — and never will be. Not on my watch"
    The leaked documents last year - why did the Tories not ever deny they were an actual report? Was it because this was the actual report?
    Why did Trump specifically refer to the NHS when asked about trade deals in April 2019?
    Why have we stated that any trade deal would provide "full market access for US products" - thats not what we do now is it? They need to be registered, go through approval and have a local office.

    It seems pretty obvious to me that we are going to be absolutely desperate to get some trade deals in place as soon as we have left the EU and in light of this abolition of legislation, the animal welfare/food standards legislation, cutting foreign aid (bet you didnt hear about that one) when their manifesto clearly stated none of these things would happen is the same as cleaning your house up before the estate agent comes to take pictures.
    The NHS will always be supported by the private sector but it shouldnt become reliant on it and certainly should start changing the way it works to pander to it.
    Alex, I totally agree with you

    If I was in power, I would have put a halt to Brexit. We are
    In the midst of the largest pandemic we have seen since the Spanish flu. You are an intelligent bloke, the economy has bombed due to it. Is it a clever idea to split yourself from the largest trading block at this time?


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  10. #30
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    I can understand some of the arguments for Brexit, but half of them are wrong

    Immigrants coming over to fruit pick... because farmers only pay £2.50 an hour

    Blacks and Asians not willing to integrate, but have us Brits integrated when we have migrated?

    And now we have them kicking off about Black Lives Matter ,
    Not just the blacks but the whites in London too.

    And what will Brexit do to fix this? Absolutely nothing

    However I’m interested in what’s going on in Hong Kong, I’ve heard finance are pulling everything back to London


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  11. #31
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    Half of them? I haven't seen a single argument not have some caveat put on it, or not be completely misrepresented.

    But we locked that topic didn't we

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Half of them? I haven't seen a single argument not have some caveat put on it, or not be completely misrepresented.

    But we locked that topic didn't we
    We locked the COVID topic too

    It was a nearly 50% split so I am being kind to Brexiteers

    The transatlantic trade, the US wants picks of the NHS, private medical insurance etc, but I have heard that is off the table.

    PMI isn’t a bad thing, the best medical care I have ever had was through AXA insurance at the Priory

    Personally I think if people are wealthy enough they should pay for PMI and the people who can’t, they should be allowed free health services

    Now what are we going to do about Tuberculosis in this country? I’m going to disagree with Leon, but we stopped Inoculations in this country and that is why it is spreading again


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  13. #33
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    There's another petition circulating with around 100k signatures already to ask the Government to extend the transition to get us out of the pandemic.

    The Government has rejected it already.

    Let's put that into context. There is an overwhelming and almost entirely undisputed consensus that the UK's economic crisis is going to deepen and worsen over the next 6 months, even the Chancellor accepts this. And there remains the original, objectively demonstrable negative effects of leaving the EU (even with a deal) which will make the cost of trade more expensive, or without a deal which will make it massively more expensive. At a time when we are already severely weakened.

    But our Prime Minister and Government insist on pushing through, coming out of the other side and to hell with the consequences.

    I want people to let that sink in for a minute.

    Really, really sink in.

    If this doesn't show you that our Government has no interest in "Great" Britain, there's nothing anyone can do for you.

  14. #34
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    I think Boris is trying, but you also have to consider the British public..


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  15. #35
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    Trying what? He’s trying for nothing except No Deal.

  16. #36
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    Look at this. ‘Great Britain’.

    https://www.facebook.com/24151329653...52555733/?vh=e

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Both sides of the argument put out propaganda and twisted truths, no side is 100% right or 100% wrong. People need to question/fact check everything and not rely on mainstream media outlets, social media and "I know someone who said this and this".

    The section of that conversation that was showed in the video showed the old man getting flustered and out manoeuvred by the other guy, who seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. But there's also the possibility that the old guy made some valid points that the other guy couldn't reply to. Because the video has a specific agenda, it wouldn't be advantageous to the other guys argument to include that in the video.
    There's also the chance that the video is 100% as it seems and the old man was out of his depth, unprepared and lacking the basic knowledge to back up his words and opinions, resorting to generic propaganda fed to him through various sources.

    My opinion is that this video would have more of a point if both participants were of a similar level of knowledge and were able to answer or respond to each others questions without evading or talking over each other.

  18. #38
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    Of course it would be better if they had a similar level of knowledge.

    That’s the bloody point. The Brexiteer had no idea or answers for very basic questions.

    If he is so sure the WTO is better than our current agreements, he should be able to substantiate why.

    Femi hit him with very simple, very logical points. He had no answers.

  19. #39
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    I totally agree with you Ryan

    But also, this “Black Lives Matter” shit is just dividing the country


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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Of course it would be better if they had a similar level of knowledge.

    That’s the bloody point. The Brexiteer had no idea or answers for very basic questions.

    If he is so sure the WTO is better than our current agreements, he should be able to substantiate why.

    Femi hit him with very simple, very logical points. He had no answers.
    Just another casualty of the targeted propaganda by the brexiteers. Old people often aren't willing to acknowledge their shortcomings in things and instead just try to dismiss and dirvert to keep their pride.
    I would be interested in seeing him debate someone who doesn't believe the Daily Mail is a good honest paper.
    Unfortunately, the times we live in means that people in power can say almost anything they want without having to stand by it when it all falls down. It starts to rub off on others eventually.

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