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Thread: White/black lives matter thing.

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    White/black lives matter thing.

    I'm surprised there's no thread already on this and if it's in breach of forum rules then apologies, please delete this.

    Firstly racism is completely wrong and shouldn't be tolerated at all but I read in the news this morning about the guy who did the white lives matter banner over Etihad Stadium has been sacked from his job.

    Ok. I take issue with this. He was spectating a football game not working or representing the company he worked for. I disagree with the flamboyant way of going about making his point but he does have a point. Black lives matter. Yes they do. But surely so does everyone else? If he shoe was on the other foot and this was kicked off with a black cop killing a white male then it would have been "oh he must have deserved it". As for "taking the knee" not a frickin chance. The only person that gets that is my missus.

    Which brings me to my biggest bone of contention. All the media going on about black lives matter then because this guy says white lives matter too he's immediately branded racist and loses his job. Why? Why is it racist to say white lives matter and not racist to say black lives matter? Double standards???? Why not go the whole hog and include other colours too? Brown lives? Yellow? Green? How ridiculous does it have to get?? Yes, its tragic and wrong about the chap who died, but it should have been handled differently within the police guidelines. Slavery is bad. Yes it bloody is! But all this happened a long long time ago yet people are being blamed for something their great grandparents did. How the hell are they responsible for this??? My grandfather fought in ww2 in the artillery and almost certainly killed some German troops but does this make me responsible for his actions? Does it f*ck!!

    I don't usually get irritated to this extent by news stories but this black lives matter thing has exploded out of all proportion and its pissed me off big time.

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    Member arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teggers View Post
    thing has exploded out of all proportion
    That's the nub of it. The trick is to ignore the media, who are blowing it out of proportion as much as anyone, and not to get annoyed by it as that's fuelling it even further. Just take a step back and laugh at all the postmodernist drivel of identity politics and watch as it slowly dawns on them that the more they divide themselves away from the pack, the less collective they become, and the more individuality is what needs to be respected.
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    Not another 1!!!!!,

    The slogan Black Lives Matter isn't statement about how black lives matter more than others. Its a statement that says we, a continuously persecuted element of the population (black people) are here and matter too.

    He wasn't spectating otherwise he would have been in the stadium or at home watching. He was flying a plane towing a political statement banner behind it.

    You mat not have been able to identify who the pilot worked for but in this age it wouldn't be too difficult to find out and potentially bring that companies name and/or ethos into disrepute. Not surprised the guy was sacked. Least he deserved in my book.

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    100% agree with Mel here.


    On a side note, please bare in mind the sxoc does not tolerate racism so if someone plans to be, don't. Keep it civil.
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    At the risk of sounding controversial, I actually had a similar thought. Flying a banner with the sentence "White Lives Matter" wasn't racist. But, it was a terrible call of judgement on his behalf given the current climate and dare I say, probably intended to stir it up.

    I got called a psuedo-racist only a fortnight ago because I used the phrase "All Lives Matter", because all life is and should be treated equally.

    I was immediately lambasted and it was clear I couldn't "win" a debate. If I made any points, I was told my white privilege meant I couldn't possibly understand. When I explained that I've never seen skin tone as a differentiating factor, I was told my white privilege meant I had never had to. I don't know if I agree or disagree with that, but it seems that I couldn't even engage on the topic so I don't know how a conversation was expected to happen.

    All I know is, in 2020 I sure feel guilty for being a straight, white, middle class male.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEL View Post
    You mat not have been able to identify who the pilot worked for but in this age it wouldn't be too difficult to find out and potentially bring that companies name and/or ethos into disrepute. Not surprised the guy was sacked. Least he deserved in my book.
    The local airport has already suspended the aircraft companies ability to operate from there.

    It might have been a tasteless statement and it might have been made with malicious intent, but was it against any law and ultimately was any offense committed? That I think isn't clear.

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    A lot of (not all) of the people quoting white lives matter on social media then seem to follow it up with deeply racist posts and referring to black people as “them” etc. It’s those people that are the issue imo and have definitely said “I’m not racist but....” in recent weeks.
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    But is that racist? When did it become racist to refer to a group of people who are trying to draw attention to their cause, as them?

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    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    But is that racist? When did it become racist to refer to a group of people who are trying to draw attention to their cause, as them?
    As with all of the grey racism it all comes down to intent. Yer man with the banner wasnt being racist as such but he knew what we was doing would offend people, in fact its pretty clear that their intention was malicious.
    Snoop Dogg referring to another black guy as nigger is reconfirming they have something in common, a white guy isnt able to do that and generally when he uses the word there is a connotation of malice.

    Calling a group of people "them" is obviously valid ....... but use "them" to infer a difference between "them" and "us" when we all know what the difference is is intentionally divisive.

    The answer to people saying "All lives Matter" or "White Lives Matter":



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    It was a stupid thing to do in the current climate, especially with the media stirring the pot as well. It ain't just the cream that floats to the top...

    By all means everyone has a right to fight their cause/corner and is entitled to the same basic rights and it is terrible that there are still people who think the colour of someone's skin denotes their character/ability/way of life etc. But to fight said corner by hurting others, regardless of creed, colour etc is wrong. I don't care who is involved, doing something to persecute a particular group is wrong.

    Final thought: why do white people spend so much on holidays and spend it lying on a bit of sand trying to make their skin darker?

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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    As with all of the grey racism it all comes down to intent. Yer man with the banner wasnt being racist as such but he knew what we was doing would offend people, in fact its pretty clear that their intention was malicious.
    I hear you buddy. But was it racist? Was what he did racist?

    Intended to cause offense: definitely. Intended to stoke division: definitely. In the poorest taste: definitely.

    But was the act of flying the banner and the sentence itself racist? I don't think that it was. I'm not endorsing it at all. I believe I know what it was meant to achieve like all of us.

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    I personally believe that the cause that BLM fights for is a righteous one and the majority of people supporting it have honest intentions, but the actual BLM movement is funded by rich white businessmen (George Soros) in an attempt to deceive and manipulate the black community to get Joe Biden elected as President of the United States, police forces federalised, which makes it easier to have mass control compared to having individual police forces by states and area and take a firm grip on power in the US.

    I also believe that the BLM name was chosen to antagonise right leaning people into counter action, believing that BLM actually means that only black lives matter, further strengthening the will of black people of America to vote for sympathetic Democrat Party candidates in the fight against racism.

    I personally don't think any political activist groups such as BLM could ever gain any traction without the backing of the financial elite, who only back stuff when there is profit of gain for themselves.

    I found a very interesting video that makes these points, backed up with information and evidence that points to exactly what I have said. But I would suggest that sceptical people do there own research and check the information provided on US government websites as a picture in a youtube video is easily manipulated these days.



    Once again, in case people start swinging the "if you don't agree with me, you're racist" lines, I'm totally for as close to equality as we can get for people of all races and religions and other belief structures. I just hope that this can be achieved, not by destroying the lives of anyone who dares to make points other than what's in mainstream media, but by proper education through out all age ranges that the tone of your skin doesn't' make you better or worse than other people.

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    And as for the "White Lives Matter" banner, I believe that it was done as a counter protest against people fighting for equality by the sort of people who don't really understand that "Black Lives Matter" doesn't mean that only black lives matter to the strong majority of people who use the slogan. If it wasn't meant as this, why didn't they make a banner saying "Everyone Matters".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike41288 View Post
    I'm totally for as close to equality as we can get for people of all races and religions and other belief structures. I just hope that this can be achieved, not by destroying the lives of anyone who dares to make points other than what's in mainstream media
    It's where it gets interesting for me. I've watched this happen time and time again and it's not just cases like Crossfit (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53171442) where the guy makes a fairly dickish statement and people choose to boycott the product (I'm pretty well fine with that. If you're in business then you have to respect that whatever you say will reflect on your business and customers have a right to choose who they give their money to); it's often outright obliteration for daring to attempt a debate.

    The best example of that was probably Jordan Peterson's 'interview' with Cathy Newman on C4 (lol, interview my arse) where she had clearly gotten herself a chip on her shoulder about him and his views on various subjects (he was portrayed very poorly as someone against trans-rights; which was completely unfounded but people screeched about it enough so it stuck, and hence the character assassination had already started) and she set out for the jugular right away, trying to extract soundbites of hate to paint him as the pantomime villain - putting words into his mouth with 'so you're saying' logic fails like because he's said A then B must also be true. Unfortunately she didn't have anywhere near the smarts and he put her on her ass over the course of half hour's worth of car crash journalism. So what happened next? Did the media quite rightly take her to task over it? Nope, they doubled down on stupidity and painted HER as the victim, saying that alt-right activists had made threats on her life - by doing so portraying all Jordan Peterson's viewers/readers as alt-right and, therefore, massively fascist Nazis anti-feminists etc whose views can be discounted incredibly easily. Throwing an 'ist' tag is a daily pastime of the extreme left and the extreme left are alive and well at the moment.

    And you have to ask yourself why. Why take a bloke from about as centric a position as you can have him - a libertarian left leaning lecturer and social scientist - and paint his normalist (and extremely well researched, critically peer reviewed and published) views as extremist hate speech? You paint the normal guy as the problem and your radical leftist views as the new normal and all of a sudden, normal people become far right Nazis. The postmodern identity politics is a deliberate reincarnation of marxist collectivism and bringing people into group identity is a real easy way to start a revolution.

    So if it's back to proles versus the bourgeois then you have to ask why is it that the middle class socialists support the proles? It's Orwell that nailed that one - they hate the rich; it's not so much about helping the poor as it is toppling the rich. I can't help but feel the hijacking of BLM's core messaging and the rabble rousing its caused is less about racism and more about being anti-establishment. There will be more of it to come under the guise of making people's lives better - but it won't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    I hear you buddy. But was it racist? Was what he did racist?
    IMHO racist... prob not..

    Stupid ohhh flipping yes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    IMHO racist... prob not..

    Stupid ohhh flipping yes...
    Pointless, too, other than it caused the offence he presumably went for. I did particularly like his response though:


    Sounds like he gave less than two shits who he upset.

    I've heard it said that BLM would have been less problematic for these types to understand if they'd just called it BLM2. And there's the rub I guess - if people are so bloody thick that this clears up complex issues for them, then well it's no surprise that racism exists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    The local airport has already suspended the aircraft companies ability to operate from there.

    It might have been a tasteless statement and it might have been made with malicious intent, but was it against any law and ultimately was any offense committed? That I think isn't clear.
    Could be seen as incitement i suppose. Its the timing that is the issue around this. The act itself may not be racist but given the current climate and racial unrest across the developed world - what else are you supposed to read into it.

    Suspending the business from the airport is entirely unjust unless they intentionally sactioned the banner/flight over the Etihad. They seem to have done what you could say was the least they could do.

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    Seeing what Arry has posted I would now say this action was formed in complete ignorance/stupidity and the 1940's.

    This reads to me as a big FCUK YOU to black people and the message the majority are trying to get across.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEL View Post
    Could be seen as incitement i suppose.
    Anything can be seen as incitement these days - just ask Count Dankula.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEL View Post
    Seeing what Arry has posted I would now say this action was formed in complete ignorance/stupidity and the 1940's.

    This reads to me as a big FCUK YOU to black people and the message the majority are trying to get across.
    Well here he is:


    And it sort of says it all. It's just another cause for Are Tommeh to get behind, so expect the Crowdfunding legal feels BS any second.
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