We seem to be missing a COVID-19 thread

[LeonatLarge]

What do you mean by lockdown?

Lockdown, where an individual is only advised to leave home for essential travel or exercise, pubs shut, gyms shut, police going through peoples shopping, following people with drones, and arresting people for minding their own business but for being out of the house,kicking peoples doors off because someone has reported a disturbance, being able to buy a gallon of vodka but not a gallon of paint.

In other words a form of incarceration inflicted on the masses for no logical reason.

[LeonatLarge]

you can't help some people.


As Arry mentioned, defined "lockdown". Japan and Sweden both have movement restrictions in place in some manor. They are not just acting like its business as usual.

I definitely don't need any help from you pal

[arry]

Lockdown, where an individual is only advised to leave home for essential travel or exercise, pubs shut, gyms shut, police going through peoples shopping, following people with drones, and arresting people for minding their own business but for being out of the house,kicking peoples doors off because someone has reported a disturbance, being able to buy a gallon of vodka but not a gallon of paint.

In other words a form of incarceration inflicted on the masses for no logical reason.

Do you want to have another stab? Is it all of those things, some of those things, any combination of some of those things, just one of those things?

Is this Leon's official definition being the only one that counts?

Bear in mind we've already discussed Japan and Sweden and you called me out for banging on about them despite you being the one that brought them up, so don't make me go find it all to quote back at you if you're not confident in your first stab. Don't want you go moving goal posts or anything sinister like that.

[LeonatLarge]

You think you’re so smart but your not. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, then it’s a duck. I know trump is a bigot and so are you. End of.

Ducks can't talk.
How do you know Trump and me are bigots, is it because we don't share your left wing views? I know why, it's because I said your avatar looks like two tampons isn't it

[arry]

is it because we don't share your left wing views?

Another example of you struggling to deal with complex issues, such as political ideology versus plain outright moral standpoints.

You're trotting out well trodden lines as if they're yours and a product of your own analysis and intuition, but in reality you're just playing back what's fed to you by sources you idolise without questioning, because their soundbites fill you with an easy to manage sense of being right, and thus you get your fix of confirmation bias, without having to do any of the hard yards. It just means you can't back down or change your mind or reconsider your positioning whole or in part.

You're ignoring comments such as criticism of your lack of critical reading, which is telling. The response required takes intellect you don't currently have or a level of both effort and / or consideration you're not willing to give; but yet you project all conquering intellect and fully believe your position as being master of it.

I could replace you as adversary with any person of similar experience within your ideological group and the conversation would be nigh on the same; certainly with no real variation on theme. You have indoctrination driven ideals rather than thought driven ideas. You show no empathy for another person's position because it is wrong without question as it does not match your taught reapnse. You have not learned to reason or question. You are purely a mouthpiece for another person's extremism which you've learned in soundbite form only. No depth comes through anything you recite.

I say this not because I need one up on you. Hell, you and I will never meet most likely and it's not like I need a warm fluffy leftist hug out of you. Besides, you're one of millions like you that won't be swayed either way regardless of opposition. I say this so that one day when you've stopped being the current you and reflected a bit, you might realise that perhaps there was a different, more fulfilling, better way at coming at life which could enhance you as a person and your understanding of the world.

If not, so be it, there's been plenty like you before and there will be plenty like you when you've gone.

[sx rider]

is it because we don't share your left wing views? I know why, it's because I said your avatar looks like two tampons isn't it

Said the bigot

[sideways14a]

Quality chat on the sxoc

[Rubix_Cube]

Japan just announced their lockdown overnight. They must not work....

[LeonatLarge]

Japan just announced their lockdown overnight. They must not work....

No they haven't, they have just extended their state of emergency and "asked" people to stay at home where possible.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52313807

[LeonatLarge]

Said the bigot

Really ? Is that all you have got, your pathetic

So I'm a troll, when you call me a bigot for no reason other than my opinions differ from your own

[LeonatLarge]

Another example of you struggling to deal with complex issues, such as political ideology versus plain outright moral standpoints.

You're trotting out well trodden lines as if they're yours and a product of your own analysis and intuition, but in reality you're just playing back what's fed to you by sources you idolise without questioning, because their soundbites fill you with an easy to manage sense of being right, and thus you get your fix of confirmation bias, without having to do any of the hard yards. It just means you can't back down or change your mind or reconsider your positioning whole or in part.

You're ignoring comments such as criticism of your lack of critical reading, which is telling. The response required takes intellect you don't currently have or a level of both effort and / or consideration you're not willing to give; but yet you project all conquering intellect and fully believe your position as being master of it.

I could replace you as adversary with any person of similar experience within your ideological group and the conversation would be nigh on the same; certainly with no real variation on theme. You have indoctrination driven ideals rather than thought driven ideas. You show no empathy for another person's position because it is wrong without question as it does not match your taught reapnse. You have not learned to reason or question. You are purely a mouthpiece for another person's extremism which you've learned in soundbite form only. No depth comes through anything you recite.

I say this not because I need one up on you. Hell, you and I will never meet most likely and it's not like I need a warm fluffy leftist hug out of you. Besides, you're one of millions like you that won't be swayed either way regardless of opposition. I say this so that one day when you've stopped being the current you and reflected a bit, you might realise that perhaps there was a different, more fulfilling, better way at coming at life which could enhance you as a person and your understanding of the world.

If not, so be it, there's been plenty like you before and there will be plenty like you when you've gone.

I base my opinions and views on facts, I do not take direction from others regarding my opinions, I analyse the facts then form my opinions using common sense and logic.
People like you and others on here, just repeat what they have been told by their masters without doing any of their own research which is why they struggle to debate and justify their views, for example can any of you provide any evidence that our nation being locked down has slowed the rate of infection opposed to a nation that has not been locked down, the answer is no, but you still continue to support the lockdown because your masters told you that this is correct.
People like me also have no need to attack or insult the person we are debating with as our facts, figures and subject matter is strong enough to stand up on it's own.

( I only in insult sx rider to reciprocate his constant unjustifiable insults and because he brings absolutely nothing to the debate)

[arry]

I base my opinions and views on facts

Facts that you cherry pick, whilst ignoring bits that don't fit your narrative even if they're from the same source data. The very same source data.

I do not take direction from others regarding my opinions

Translation - I don't listen to anyone else's arguments because it doesn't fit my narrative.

I analyse the facts then form my opinions using common sense and logic.

As long the facts are plucked to suit your viewpoint and the common sense and logic dictates you ignore all other sources of information.

People like you and others on here, just repeat what they have been told by their masters

Who is my master in this scenario and where in this thread have I pointed to anything they have told me as basis for my argument?

without doing any of their own research which is why they struggle to debate and justify their views

Despite the fact that I've quoted both completely separate and your own source data back at you as evidence as to why you're not considering wider factors and yet you continue to ignore it entirely or throw back NONSENSE, YAWN, YOU'RE NOT FOOLING ANYONE BUT YOURSELF!!! Haha, if that's me struggling to debate and justify my views, and others are having the same problem - then perhaps you should look more inwards and where the problem might lie

for example can any of you provide any evidence that our nation being locked down has slowed the rate of infection opposed to a country that has not been locked down, answer is no, but you still continue to support the lockdown because your masters told you that this is correct.

I could if I took such a broad approach to newspaper statistics as you do, and ignore all other evidential source data - yeah, that'd be grand. But I won't, because I'm not silly enough to believe that either your side of the argument or mine can be fully justified and evidenced from newspaper snippets collated and interrogated by persons that are not in the thick of it with no expert knowledge in the field to which they're applying their 'common sense'. That would be madness.

What I'll do though is learn through critical reading, considering the evidence from all sources available to me and deciding which of those sources is reliable - from that I will take a view. At the moment my view is that a lockdown is required to control what is a widescale pandemic with particularly nasty health consequences. You take the opposite view. That's fine. The difference between you and I is that I'm prepared to alter my view; I wonder if yours will ever change, or indeed does ever change once you've made your mind up to go down a route

[LeonatLarge]

Facts that you cherry pick, whilst ignoring bits that don't fit your narrative even if they're from the same source data. The very same source data.



Translation - I don't listen to anyone else's arguments because it doesn't fit my narrative.



As long the facts are plucked to suit your viewpoint and the common sense and logic dictates you ignore all other sources of information.



Who is my master in this scenario and where in this thread have I pointed to anything they have told me as basis for my argument?



Despite the fact that I've quoted both completely separate and your own source data back at you as evidence as to why you're not considering wider factors and yet you continue to ignore it entirely or throw back NONSENSE, YAWN, YOU'RE NOT FOOLING ANYONE BUT YOURSELF!!! Haha, if that's me struggling to debate and justify my views, and others are having the same problem - then perhaps you should look more inwards and where the problem might lie



I could if I took such a broad approach to newspaper statistics as you do, and ignore all other evidential source data - yeah, that'd be grand. But I won't, because I'm not silly enough to believe that either your side of the argument or mine can be fully justified and evidenced from newspaper snippets collated and interrogated by persons that are not in the thick of it with no expert knowledge in the field to which they're applying their 'common sense'. That would be madness.

What I'll do though is learn through critical reading, considering the evidence from all sources available to me and deciding which of those sources is reliable - from that I will take a view. At the moment my view is that a lockdown is required to control what is a widescale pandemic with particularly nasty health consequences. You take the opposite view. That's fine. The difference between you and I is that I'm prepared to alter my view; I wonder if yours will ever change, or indeed does ever change once you've made your mind up to go down a route

Facts and figures are all we can use to determine the effect of the lockdown, as a british citizen I have to accept the british governments figures.

It is a scientific fact that this disease has a one to fourteen day incubation period, we have now been locked down for twenty four days, we should have seen a dramatic drop in cases of infection during and after the first two weeks of the lockdown, we have not, which has verified the fact that this lockdown has been ineffective on the contagion of this disease, as time goes on for example in another three weeks and we have still not seen any dramatic drop off in contagion this will verify my point even further.

The longer the lockdown goes on the more deaths we will have, hospitals have shutdown all but essential operations, so there are sixty thousand people that are not receiving cancer treatment, some people are drinking themselves into an oblivion, other people are staying away from doctors and hospitals as they are scared of catching the disease, this will massively increase the death rate, if any of the above people test positive for corona or show symptoms before their death, their deaths will go to the " died with covid figures ", that doesn't include the negative economic effects, we have already lost some of our airlines, pubs, and gyms as the government has said it will not be paying lease/rent.

The majority of people have failed to realise the dramatic change this will have on our democracy and way of life, after this is over in a few years time, our nation will be much more like China is now because many of the bigger businesses will have to be taken over by the government and I can't see how the government can save the smaller businesses so they will cease to exist.

[Rubix_Cube]

No they haven't, they have just extended their state of emergency and "asked" people to stay at home where possible.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52313807

After doing some more research, Japan cannot lock down as it is not in their constitution that their government can enforce a one. Their government are pleading with citizens to stay at home to esnure their health service isn't over run (like we are doing):

Quote from the article you linked:

After the initial state of emergency came into force on 8 April, a number of other regional governors called for the measures to be extended to their areas, saying that cases were growing and their medical facilities were overwhelmed.

Japan’s two emergency medical associations also issued a joint statement warning that they were “already sensing the collapse of the emergency medical system”.

Staying at home works. Lockdowns work..... why do you think they don't? You don't go into lockdown and miracles happen overnight. This virus can be passed on weeks after you get it. It takes time to let the numbers run down. The whole purpose of the lockdown in the UK is because ignorant and selfish people won't do it if they are "advised" to. They will think they can do what they want, so it has to be enforced. If we didn't enforce it, you'd be seeing numbers at least 100% higher than they are.

[arry]

Facts and figures are all we can use to determine the effect of the lockdown

Just facts and figures, or facts figures and common sense?

[LeonatLarge]

After doing some more research, Japan cannot lock down as it is not in their constitution that their government can enforce a one. Their government are pleading with citizens to stay at home to esnure their health service isn't over run (like we are doing):

Quote from the article you linked:



Staying at home works. Lockdowns work..... why do you think they don't? You don't go into lockdown and miracles happen overnight. This virus can be passed on weeks after you get it. It takes time to let the numbers run down. The whole purpose of the lockdown in the UK is because ignorant and selfish people won't do it if they are "advised" to. They will think they can do what they want, so it has to be enforced. If we didn't enforce it, you'd be seeing numbers at least 100% higher than they are.

You have no evidence facts or figures to prove what you have said, using government figures, there will be a maximum of four weeks from the initial lockdown where we would see if it has been effective or not, as the incubation period is one to fourteen days, the said four weeks is four days away.....

Furthermore not all of Japans citizens have been staying at home, many have still been frequenting the bars pubs and restaurants, going to work using public transport ect.

[Asht_200]

Interesting video from a New York Doctor


https://youtu.be/k9GYTc53r2o


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[arry]

not all of Japans citizens have been staying at home, many have still been frequenting the bars pubs and restaurants, going to work using public transport ect.

Are some UK citizens still going to work, on public transport, and not staying at home?

[Asht_200]

Are some UK citizens still going to work, on public transport, and not staying at home?

There are number of factors why Japanese workers are still going into work. They still in some places have a low tech structure where workers are going in to stamp documents... but now the state of emergency has been spread country wide

But another factor is Japan has been building a nationwide emergency response structure since their last 2 major earthquakes and they aggressively tracing and confining anyone who has had contact with victims

Shinkansen has been pretty much halted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rubix_Cube]

You have no evidence facts or figures to prove what you have said, using government figures, there will be a maximum of four weeks from the initial lockdown where we would see if it has been effective or not, as the incubation period is one to fourteen days, the said four weeks is four days away.....

Furthermore not all of Japans citizens have been staying at home, many have still been frequenting the bars pubs and restaurants, going to work using public transport ect.

Because I don't need to..... it's common sense. Take public transport or people working with the public. If there is no lockdown, thats more interactions, more risk of getting infected or passing it it.... If we're in lockdown the numbers go down.

If you can't see that, there is no way you understand how the world works and your simply a selfish and ignorant.