We seem to be missing a COVID-19 thread

[LeonatLarge]

It's linked in the above - NHS data.



Information I provided? That was your data?

Simply, your source suggested there were circa 3000 Covid19 patients in critical care bed as at April 8th. If we only have 4123 beds and those beds are usually at circa 80% occupancy anyway, then that's 3000 on top of 3300 ish people that are just ordinarily in Critical Care - rolling - across the 12 month dataset.

One could argue that the Covid19 patients were patients already in ICU before they contracted Covid19 but your source data says quite specifically Covid19 Patients.

Which proves my point exactly. A covid 19 patient is anyone who has tested positive for covid 19, many of these patients would have contracted the disease whilst in hospital.


As I have pointed out already the information you provided does not state that the NHS has ran out of beds or ventilators.

It is a fact that the majority of hospitals are empty, source below:

https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/nhs...027392.article

A quick recap on the facts,

The majority of hospitals are empty.

We have not ran out of ICU beds or ventilators.

Saying someone has died with Covid or that their death was covid linked is entirely different to saying someone died from covid.

[Asht_200]

Which proves my point exactly. A covid 19 patient is anyone who has tested positive for covid 19, many of these patients would have contracted the disease whilst in hospital.


As I have pointed out already the information you provided does not state that the NHS has ran out of beds or ventilators.

It is a fact that the majority of hospitals are empty, source below:

https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/nhs...027392.article

A quick recap on the facts,

The majority of hospitals are empty.

We have not ran out of ICU beds or ventilators.

Saying someone has died with Covid or that their death was covid linked is entirely different to saying someone died from covid.

Just shut up.

I tested positive for Covid-19 and the tests are giving something like 40% false positives

My girlfriend is risking her life every day to help people who are dying

Leon you are being a prick again


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[LeonatLarge]

Just shut up.

I tested positive for Covid-19 and the tests are giving something like 40% false positives

My girlfriend is risking her life every day to help people who are dying

Leon you are being a prick again


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I can't help it if I'm always correct, and use facts to back up my arguments, it's not my fault that you lot are always wrong and don't like facts, if that makes me a prick then so be it.

[Asht_200]

I can't help it if I'm always correct, and use facts to back up my arguments, it's not my fault that you lot are always wrong and don't like facts, if that makes me a prick then so be it.

No you are wrong. Thousands are dying over the globe and you still believe it is nothing

Move to the US, you would probably make a great president


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[LeonatLarge]

No you are wrong. Thousands are dying over the globe and you still believe it is nothing

Move to the US, you would probably make a great president


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Trump is a genius, Im just an average guy, I do not know of any better person at the moment to be the most powerful man in the world than President Trump.

Since President Trump has been in power hundreds of elite paedophiles and child traffickers have been convicted this would not have happened under Clinton and did not happen when Obama the warmonger was in power.

[sideways14a]

Look if folk are getting pissed about others then just add the individuals to your ignore list and move on.

[arry]

We as a nation are no way near running out of ventilators or ICU beds.

Which proves my point exactly. A covid 19 patient is anyone who has tested positive for covid 19, many of these patients would have contracted the disease whilst in hospital.

How many - be specific. It's important to your argument.

As I have pointed out already the information you provided does not state that the NHS has ran out of beds or ventilators.

It is a fact that the majority of hospitals are empty, source below:

https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/nhs...027392.article

It's important to your argument because what you're suggesting is that the current crop of ICU sufferers are - essentially - the norm, but just with added Covid19 complications. This is despite your own link contradicting that in several places:

In London 1,127 patients were in critical care according to the dashboard report at the weekend, a number which has grown rapidly in recent weeks. It is understood there are currently about 1,550 critical care beds available in London, up from 1,041 in February.

In Birmingham and the Black Country the number of critical care beds in use is proportionately even greater than those available before covid-19 — at 223 full, versus 175 available beforehand — a surge of nearly 30 per cent.

So we ran out of beds in London and the Black Country then, and had to find some more. The report also says:

On top of this, thousands of covid-19 patients are receiving basic oxygen support but are not on full critical care ventilation. The dashboard data show this number to be more than 8,100 nationally, or about half of the coronavirus cases currently in hospital.

So that's 8000 patients nationally that are in with a half decent shout of progressing to the full whack and needing that trip to ICU, one would suggest.

It was all in the opening gambit Leon - you just chose to ignore it:
Follow major efforts to discharge patients, and sharp drop in admissions.
Critical care in hotspots at more than normal total capacity, especially in Birmingham and the Black Country, and thousands on oxygen.

And in the background of all this:

The clearout follows a huge ramping up of discharges from hospital in recent weeks in preparation for the covid-19 surge, with funding rules and checks scrapped, new facilities opened, and staff told to focus on discharge, change their thresholds, and be more directive about patients leaving hospital. The number of patients who have spent 21 days or more in hospital — so called “super stranded patients” — has reduced by 40 per cent, one source said.

There has also been a sharp dropoff in numbers admitted for non-coronavirus care, sparking fears among senior clinicians about the harm being done as people fail to get treatment, and widespread suspensions of planned operations.

So, we've basically cleared out our hospitals, cancelled down all non-emergency work and ticked a load of capacity over to ICU to cater for all the people that were already in hospital that were going to die anyway who incidentally just happen to have now contracted Covid19. Seems legit.

A quick recap on the facts,

The majority of hospitals are empty.

We have not ran out of ICU beds or ventilators.

Saying someone has died with Covid or that their death was covid linked is entirely different to saying someone died from covid.

Is your entire point about miscoded deaths? Do you struggle to hold more than one complex thought at a time?

[Asht_200]

Trump is a genius, Im just an average guy, I do not know of any better person at the moment to be the most powerful man in the world than President Trump.

Since President Trump has been in power hundreds of elite paedophiles and child traffickers have been convicted this would not have happened under Clinton and did not happen when Obama the warmonger was in power.

What world do you live in? We have Formula 1 teams churning out ventilators.
I’m not going to bite , you obviously live in dilusional cloud cuckoo land


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[Asht_200]

Trump is a genius, Im just an average guy, I do not know of any better person at the moment to be the most powerful man in the world than President Trump.

Since President Trump has been in power hundreds of elite paedophiles and child traffickers have been convicted this would not have happened under Clinton and did not happen when Obama the warmonger was in power.

Actually I am going to bite. My girlfriend is on a positive pressure ventilator now. She is an NHS nurse and she does more for people than your thick demented belief’s will ever do. Wake up, you are either a troll or too stupid to learn what’s important

We gave you a chance, but not any more


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[LeonatLarge]

How many - be specific. It's important to your argument.



It's important to your argument because what you're suggesting is that the current crop of ICU sufferers are - essentially - the norm, but just with added Covid19 complications. This is despite your own link contradicting that in several places:



So we ran out of beds in London and the Black Country then, and had to find some more. The report also says:


So that's 8000 patients nationally that are in with a half decent shout of progressing to the full whack and needing that trip to ICU, one would suggest.

It was all in the opening gambit Leon - you just chose to ignore it:
Follow major efforts to discharge patients, and sharp drop in admissions.
Critical care in hotspots at more than normal total capacity, especially in Birmingham and the Black Country, and thousands on oxygen.

And in the background of all this:


So, we've basically cleared out our hospitals, cancelled down all non-emergency work and ticked a load of capacity over to ICU to cater for all the people that were already in hospital that were going to die anyway who incidentally just happen to have now contracted Covid19. Seems legit.




Is your entire point about miscoded deaths? Do you struggle to hold more than one complex thought at a time?

Absolute nonsense, you are not deceiving anyone.

At no time has the NHS ran out of beds or ventilators.

You ask me a question that nobody knows the answer to and make out it's important to my argument

The facts and figures are there for everyone to see and will be there after this pandemic is over.

The facts still stand.

The hospitals are empty.

We have at no time ran out of ICU beds or ventilators.

There is no evidence to determine or even suggest this lockdown has any affect whatsoever to the death rate regarding the pandemic, we can use Japan and Sweden as an example.

Every day we are chucking 40 schools down the toilet, in financial terms our economy could contract by 40% which will be the biggest recession in our history, which means we will no longer be able to fund the NHS so more people will die, and our children and our grand children will be paying for this indefinitely.

I use facts and figures to prove my arguments you employ the use of misdirection distraction and deception to prove yours, intelligent people can make their own minds up.

[LeonatLarge]

Actually I am going to bite. My girlfriend is on a positive pressure ventilator now. She is an NHS nurse and she does more for people than your thick demented belief’s will ever do. Wake up, you are either a troll or too stupid to learn what’s important

We gave you a chance, but not any more


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I'm sorry to hear about your girlfriend, your girlfriend being on a ventilator has no relevance to this debate whatsoever.
What are you talking about " we gave you a chance " you have no ability to give me direction, the facts and figures dont lie.

[sx rider]

Trump is a genius, Im just an average guy, I do not know of any better person at the moment to be the most powerful man in the world than President Trump.

Takes one bigot to admire another bigot.

You truly are a deluded fool. Can you find the edge of the flat disk you think we live on and walk of it please.

[LeonatLarge]

Takes one bigot to admire another bigot.

You truly are a deluded fool. Can you find the edge of the flat disk you think we live on and walk of it please.

Why is Trump a bigot ? Because he has clamped down on corruption, sex offenders, paedophiles and child traffickers and before this debacle had the American economy working for normal people ???

[Asht_200]

Why is Trump a bigot ? Because he has clamped down on corruption, sex offenders, paedophiles and child traffickers and before this debacle had the American economy working for normal people ???

He’s a sex offender himself. Caught on video


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[Asht_200]

If the hospitals have spare beds , why were the military and volunteers helping to create 12000 beds at the Excel, Birmingham NEC and other exhibition centres?

Have some good news, she is off her ventilator this morning

Leon I’m sorry I bit but this virus has become something personal now


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[Rubix_Cube]

The hospitals are empty.

We have at no time ran out of ICU beds or ventilators.

There is no evidence to determine or even suggest this lockdown has any affect whatsoever to the death rate regarding the pandemic, we can use Japan and Sweden as an example.

Ok....

1. Hosiptal wards that have typical patients are quieter than normal. This is true. This is because day surgeries are not taking place to reduce the spread of the virus. I agree, there will be more open beds in recovery wards etc.

2. ICU's nearly run at near capacity at the best of times, we may not have ran out of beds yet, but that is because of the lockdown and social distancing that people are doing. If we had continued to mingle we'd continue to spread it to more and more vulnerable people causing the overloading of the healthcare system. This is the whole point of the lockdown.

3. The evidence takes time, you'll see over the next 2 weeks that it helps. Look at how Italy and Spain are starting to slow. Also quoting how Japan and Sweden did it.

Japan are putting tighter restrictions in place: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...er-coronavirus

Sweedn's numbers are climbing faster than other Nordic countries that implemented lock downs and their government recommend social distancing: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4413726.html

I understand you can be sceptical, but right now you're simply being ignorant. This virus, yes has flu like properties, but is far more infectious. This increases the risk to those who are already at risk from the normal flu.

[Asht_200]

Ok....

1. Hosiptal wards that have typical patients are quieter than normal. This is true. This is because day surgeries are not taking place to reduce the spread of the virus. I agree, there will be more open beds in recovery wards etc.

2. ICU's nearly run at near capacity at the best of times, we may not have ran out of beds yet, but that is because of the lockdown and social distancing that people are doing. If we had continued to mingle we'd continue to spread it to more and more vulnerable people causing the overloading of the healthcare system. This is the whole point of the lockdown.

3. The evidence takes time, you'll see over the next 2 weeks that it helps. Look at how Italy and Spain are starting to slow. Also quoting how Japan and Sweden did it.

Japan are putting tighter restrictions in place: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...er-coronavirus

Sweedn's numbers are climbing faster than other Nordic countries that implemented lock downs and their government recommend social distancing: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4413726.html

I understand you can be sceptical, but right now you're simply being ignorant. This virus, yes has flu like properties, but is far more infectious. This increases the risk to those who are already at risk from the normal flu.

Thank you


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[MEL]

If the hospitals have spare beds , why were the military and volunteers helping to create 12000 beds at the Excel, Birmingham NEC and other exhibition centres?

Have some good news, she is off her ventilator this morning

Leon I’m sorry I bit but this virus has become something personal now


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Good news she is off the ventilator, means her system is fighting it and that she is breathing far better for herself. Good signs. Hope she fully recovers.

Maybe take a step back from this discussion for a while, this has obviously not been good for you and you have more important things/people to focus on.

[Asht_200]

Good news she is off the ventilator, means her system is fighting it and that she is breathing far better for herself. Good signs. Hope she fully recovers.

Maybe take a step back from this discussion for a while, this has obviously not been good for you and you have more important things/people to focus on.

No you are correct. Can I ask the mods to ban me for a month? I do have more important things to think about


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[arry]

I use facts and figures to prove my arguments you employ the use of misdirection distraction and deception to prove yours, intelligent people can make their own minds up.

It is hilarious watching you go to work. You use facts you cherry pick from sources that in some places completely contradict your argument, in other places entirely support those of others you reject, take them out of context and plonk them down as facts (which, I'll grant you some of them are - but still...) without taking into account any of the background factors or reasons into any part of your reasoning.

Moreover, you're starting to add evidential support to arguments against your previous points without even realising it. You were so anti this lockdown but you've brought out in your own sources facts which support why the steps were taken. When you're challenged to think wider of number X = I'm right, your form of arguing back is to shout NONSENSE whilst holding onto your chosen snippet. Hence I say to you that you struggle to form complex ideas and hold onto simple points as gospel, ignoring the rest because it's taking away from your belief structure.

Essentially, you're just a narrow minded person of the worst kind; the type that feels like they're intelligent and superior and no-one is going to ever set them straight otherwise. Kinda shit the bed funny when you look at it like that - a Trump supporting Brexiteer who swears blind the world is flat

Hilarious fun though.