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Thread: We seem to be missing a COVID-19 thread

  1. #241
    Member arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    I didn't say Sweden was representative, everyone is going to work and the nightclubs, pubs and restaurants are open, Sweden have basically said it is not prepared to take such drastic measures that will have a small effect on the epidemic at a cost of losing a functioning society.

    If we have a long lockdown there will be no businesses and no jobs to go back to when this is over the UK could be bankrupt, we are not any way near self sufficient, more people could die after the pandemic than during the epidemic because of poverty, homelessness, lack of food, crime ect.
    The people that could die after the pandemic would have a younger median age than the people that could die during the epidemic, this would be a double knock to our productivity and birth rate.

    It's a pandemic, not an epidemic. Detail is important when you're offering up your opinion on a solution which significantly endangers people's lives.

    Now, detail:
    1) Sweden is not carrying on as normal - the article you posted said as much
    2) Not everyone is going off to work - the article you posted certainly infers as much
    3) I didn't suggest that you said Sweden was representative - I gave you reasons why Sweden's actions aren't going to be on a par with that of the UK's as the situations in both countries differ significantly
    4) The statement from the health minister is taken a little bit too literally for me - and it was said over a week ago, that it won't as it currently stands (as in, exactly the same as the UK did 2 weeks ago - just wash your hands and stay in if you feel sick, remember?). This is further backed up if you take the Prime Minister's speech in full context rather than soundbites from the Express who have dressed that story up to suggest that the UK is going too far in comparison to Sweden, or Sweden isn't going far enough (papers often do this dual messaging as what enrages one hateful reader will not be the same as what does another).

    Quote Originally Posted by PM Sweden
    Each and everyone needs to prepare mentally for what lies ahead.

    The infection is spreading in Sweden. Life, health and jobs are threatened. More people will fall ill, more will have to bid a loved one their last farewell.

    The only way of handling this, is to face the crisis as a society where everyone takes responsibility for themselves, for each other and for our country.

    I know many are worried. Worried about how our society is going to cope. Worried for yourself, for someone you love who belongs to a risk group, or that you will lose your job.

    I understand that. The next few months will be stressful. But our society is strong.

    Our authorities are working hard, day and night. Staff in healthcare services, schools and many, many other people in important jobs are supporting our country. I as prime minister, the government I lead, will make every decision needed to protect as many people's lives, health and jobs, to every extent possible.
    Critical reading. Reputable sources. Thought out arguments. Throw some and we'll come back to your suggestion, eh?
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  2. #242
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    Last year in italy over six hundred thousand people died, that's roughly fifty thousand a month.

    We will not know the true affect of the pandemic regarding Italys death rate until this time next year.

    The current death rate from the corona virus in Italy is about 0.145 per thousand, the average death rate in Italy last year was 10.7 per thousand.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rate-in-italy/

    Some medical experts believe that a high proportion of people that have died from the corona virus would of died within this year anyway.
    Using the above statistics we could speculate and say at the moment the statistics show that the Corona virus will not significantly alter the death rate in Italy.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...d-year-anyway/

    The average age of people that have died from corona in Italy is 80.


    https://www-bloomberg-com.cdn.amppro...20%25251%2524s

    The average life expectancy in Italy is 83 years.


    https://www.macrotrends.net/countrie...ife-expectancy

    With the above information and statistics considered the only logical conclusion is that a prolonged lock down is not going to be worth the economic effects and the huge change to our way of life for a change in the annual death rate of between 0.5% and 1.4% if we use Italy as a model using the latest statistics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arry View Post
    It's a pandemic, not an epidemic. Detail is important when you're offering up your opinion on a solution which significantly endangers people's lives.

    Now, detail:
    1) Sweden is not carrying on as normal - the article you posted said as much
    2) Not everyone is going off to work - the article you posted certainly infers as much
    3) I didn't suggest that you said Sweden was representative - I gave you reasons why Sweden's actions aren't going to be on a par with that of the UK's as the situations in both countries differ significantly
    4) The statement from the health minister is taken a little bit too literally for me - and it was said over a week ago, that it won't as it currently stands (as in, exactly the same as the UK did 2 weeks ago - just wash your hands and stay in if you feel sick, remember?). This is further backed up if you take the Prime Minister's speech in full context rather than soundbites from the Express who have dressed that story up to suggest that the UK is going too far in comparison to Sweden, or Sweden isn't going far enough (papers often do this dual messaging as what enrages one hateful reader will not be the same as what does another).



    Critical reading. Reputable sources. Thought out arguments. Throw some and we'll come back to your suggestion, eh?
    You have just waffled on about Sweden and the article and failed to address any of the points I raised in my post ?

    Prolonged lock down could cause us to go bankrupt and the problems associated with that, and is not worth the insignificant difference if any it will make to our death rate, last year over five hundred thousand people died in the UK, so far 500 people have died from corona.......

    Sweden are not on lock down as we are, they still have their freedom,they can go where they want, are going to work, going to the nightclubs to the pub eating out ect.

    Sweden have set an example as they know a lock down will not have a significant effect if any on the death rate and is not worth the economic damage, or the end of their way of life, sooner or later the vast majority of people will get the virus, an oxford study has already suggested up to 50% of people have had the virus in the UK this government needs to get more of a back bone and stop this nonsense.
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 26-03-2020 at 22:09.

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    Gosh, is there anything you don't know?

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    Is it not just the fact that the UK has a much larger number of pricks living in it?

    In Sweden they are more likely to listen to sense and keep apart, wash hands etc...

    Whereas a good 40% of our loyal imbeciles would still be in Wetherspoons not washing their hands after a shit, never mind touching door handles.

    The great British public need to be told like toddlers what to do (And they will still ignore it)

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  6. #246
    Member arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    You have just waffled on about Sweden and the article and failed to address any of the points I raised in my post ?
    I knew this one would be a bit frustrating as your verbal reasoning skills have shown to be quite limited through the various threads you've been posting on in recent months, but crikey you're on a mission to miss the point by a country mile here



    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Prolonged lock down could cause us to go bankrupt and the problems associated with that, and is not worth the insignificant difference if any it will make to our death rate, last year over five hundred thousand people died in the UK, so far 500 people have died from corona.......
    Well recession and / or bankruptcy is as maybe - it's certainly a risk and there's no denying that. Insignificant difference to death rate - well, now we're getting into the meat of it aren't we. You're putting a number against a number and comparing them as if they were in any way relevant. If 400k of the 500k that died last year died of old age having lived a full and healthy life, you'd say good innings lad fair play; if there were 100,000 babies in that dying from a totally preventable cause, is that just the harsh reality of life? I think we'd dig in and find a way to stop it. You're also assuming the death rate will be light (and clearly there's a lot of people far better informed than you that consider it won't be) but I'm not sure you're positioned in a way to understand the mechanics of a highly infectious virus in the way that the specialists are. Then there's the illness, not just the death, to consider. Pneumonia is a real kicker. Having watched an old girlfriend of mine - fit and healthy - get pneumonia and see her take circa 4-5 months to get back on her feet, it's not something I'd wish on a lot of people. There will be a LOT of people that get pneumonia.

    All of this assumes we have a health service that won't be overwhelmed. Since it's already at levels where the entire Excel London hall is being recommissioned into a makeshift hospital and car factories are popping out medical machinery to hit demand for breathing apparatus, yeah you know what I'd not fancy my chances of having an ICU bed in the coming months if anything did happen to me in the coming months.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Sweden are not on lock down as we are, they still have their freedom,they can go where they want, are going to work, going to the nightclubs to the pub eating out ect.
    I'm not denying they aren't on lock-down the way that we are. But you said that they were going on as normal and that's not true and your own source data confirmed the same. It's also true that we were as of just 7 days ago. They're just doing exactly what we did, monitoring infection rates and holding on as long as they can before taking drastic action.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Sweden have set an example as they know a lock down will not have a significant effect if any on the death rate and is not worth the economic damage, or the end of their way of life, sooner or later the vast majority of people will get the virus, an oxford study has already suggested up to 50% of people have had the virus in the UK this government needs to get more of a back bone and stop this nonsense.
    You've taken all that from one article in the Express deliberately written in a way as to raise that reaction in you. In fact it's practically ONE LINE of the article and one key phrase that it 'cannot' take measures. I suggested to you that was not to be taken as literally. I pointed you in the direction of the PM's speech and asked you to do some critical reading. You've come back and regurgitated the same point without doing so.

    For clarity:

    Quote Originally Posted by PM Sweden
    Tonight I want to turn directly to you, the Swedish people.

    The new coronavirus is testing our country, our society and us as human beings.

    Each and everyone needs to prepare mentally for what lies ahead.

    The infection is spreading in Sweden. Life, health and jobs are threatened. More people will fall ill, more will have to bid a loved one their last farewell.

    The only way of handling this, is to face the crisis as a society where everyone takes responsibility for themselves, for each other and for our country.

    I know many are worried. Worried about how our society is going to cope. Worried for yourself, for someone you love who belongs to a risk group, or that you will lose your job.

    I understand that. The next few months will be stressful. But our society is strong.

    Our authorities are working hard, day and night. Staff in healthcare services, schools and many, many other people in important jobs are supporting our country. I as prime minister, the government I lead, will make every decision needed to protect as many people's lives, health and jobs, to every extent possible.

    In Sweden, public gatherings for more than 500 people have been banned, and upper secondary school and university education is now being conducted remotely.

    I want you to be prepared for more decisions to intervene, sometimes at short notice, sometimes interfering with everyday life even more.

    The goal of the government's work is to limit the spread of infection, so that a lot of people will not be ill at the same time. But also to secure resources for healthcare services, and to mitigate the consequences for workers and for our businesses in these tough times.

    Be prepared for the fact that this will last a long time. Be ready for the situation changing quickly.

    But you should also know that as a society we are facing this crisis with our united strength.

    We all have great individual responsibility.

    There are a few crucial moments in life when you have to make sacrifices, not only for your own sake but also in order to take responsibility for the people around you, for your fellow human beings, and for our country.

    That moment is now. That day is here. And that duty belongs to everyone.

    Each and everyone of us has a responsibility to prevent the spread of infection, to protect the elderly and other risk groups.

    Nobody should take chances. Not one of us can go to work with symptoms. Young, old, rich or poor does not matter – everyone needs to do their part.

    This also applies to you who are aged over 70 or belong to another risk group. I understand that it is frustrating to have to limit your life, your social contacts, but right now it is necessary. For the sake of your own health, of course, but also to protect other people and to give the healthcare services the opportunity to cope with the situation.

    And we who are adults need to be exactly that: adults. Not spread panic or rumours.

    No one is alone in this crisis, but each person has a heavy responsibility. Every one.

    I know that these are great demands. But it is the only way we can limit the spread of infection.

    I know that some restrictions are strenuous. But this is how we can ensure that the healthcare system is able to handle the crisis.

    I know that the situation may feel tough. But following the advice of our public authorities is each person's duty. Yours, too – and mine.

    A lot of you are taking your responsibility as fellow human beings.

    You help your neighbours shop, you buy a takeaway lunch to support the local restaurant, you avoid seeing your grandmother – but instead call her for a chat every day.

    That is solidarity in practice.

    I am proud to be the prime minister of Sweden when I see what so many are doing for their fellow human beings.

    You show that when times are at their toughest, our unity is at its strongest.

    I am sure that everyone in Sweden will take their responsibility, do your utmost to protect the health of other people, help each other and therefore be able to look back on this crisis and be proud of your particular role, your efforts for your fellow human beings, for our society and for Sweden.

    Thank you.
    I've highlighted the bits of particular relevance in bold.
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  7. #247
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    Leon,

    8000 deaths in Italy to be caused by a virus in just a couple of months is not to be sneezed at (pun not intended)

    Donít take the same attitude as Trump did in February where he was literally mocking the rest of the world and saying he was in control of it as the US has now been confirmed as having the most confirmed cases and the numbers are rising faster daily, not decreasing as he predicted. That has been caused by him not understanding the ramifications of not doing enough


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    Quote Originally Posted by arry View Post
    I knew this one would be a bit frustrating as your verbal reasoning skills have shown to be quite limited through the various threads you've been posting on in recent months, but crikey you're on a mission to miss the point by a country mile here





    Well recession and / or bankruptcy is as maybe - it's certainly a risk and there's no denying that. Insignificant difference to death rate - well, now we're getting into the meat of it aren't we. You're putting a number against a number and comparing them as if they were in any way relevant. If 400k of the 500k that died last year died of old age having lived a full and healthy life, you'd say good innings lad fair play; if there were 100,000 babies in that dying from a totally preventable cause, is that just the harsh reality of life? I think we'd dig in and find a way to stop it. You're also assuming the death rate will be light (and clearly there's a lot of people far better informed than you that consider it won't be) but I'm not sure you're positioned in a way to understand the mechanics of a highly infectious virus in the way that the specialists are. Then there's the illness, not just the death, to consider. Pneumonia is a real kicker. Having watched an old girlfriend of mine - fit and healthy - get pneumonia and see her take circa 4-5 months to get back on her feet, it's not something I'd wish on a lot of people. There will be a LOT of people that get pneumonia.

    All of this assumes we have a health service that won't be overwhelmed. Since it's already at levels where the entire Excel London hall is being recommissioned into a makeshift hospital and car factories are popping out medical machinery to hit demand for breathing apparatus, yeah you know what I'd not fancy my chances of having an ICU bed in the coming months if anything did happen to me in the coming months.



    I'm not denying they aren't on lock-down the way that we are. But you said that they were going on as normal and that's not true and your own source data confirmed the same. It's also true that we were as of just 7 days ago. They're just doing exactly what we did, monitoring infection rates and holding on as long as they can before taking drastic action.



    You've taken all that from one article in the Express deliberately written in a way as to raise that reaction in you. In fact it's practically ONE LINE of the article and one key phrase that it 'cannot' take measures. I suggested to you that was not to be taken as literally. I pointed you in the direction of the PM's speech and asked you to do some critical reading. You've come back and regurgitated the same point without doing so.

    For clarity:



    I've highlighted the bits of particular relevance in bold.
    You have still failed to address my main argument and the majority of points I have raised in my recent posts, you are still waffling on about the Swedish article I posted ? Your waffle is not fooling or distracting anyone but yourself.

    It is not worth having a prolonged lockdown that will have little to no effect to the death rate in the UK, 10000 people die a week in the UK, so far we have had 500 deaths from the virus, these statistics represent the spread of the pandemic before the lock down took place.

    At the moment this is all speculation until the death rates are released next year we will not be able to tell if covid 19 has effected the death rate or not, I believe it will not effect the death rate at all as oxford university have completed a study that suggests 50% of the population have had the virus already, which going on people I know with myself included seems to be correct, hopefully we will soon be near the infection levels required for herd immunity, many people have had the symptoms but have not been tested and the majority of people who get the virus are asymptomatic.

    President Trump also doesn't believe the virus is worth a full lock down, many restaurants bars and businesses are open in the USA and their partial lock down will be over by next weekend according to the president.

    In the UK we have also built temporary hospitals in London and Birmingham to cope with the mass influx of people that could come in once the lock down has been lifted, I expect as we are now out of europe the way we deal with this virus will be closer to the US.

    Eight hundred thousand people lost their lives protecting our way of life and our society in WWII, is it really worth bankrupting our country and losing our functioning society when this lock down will have little to no effect on the death rate of the UK ?
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 27-03-2020 at 08:52.

  9. #249
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    We seem to be missing a COVID-19 thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    You have still failed to address my main argument and the majority of points I have raised in my recent posts, you are still waffling on about the Swedish article I posted ? Your waffle is not fooling or distracting anyone but yourself.

    It is not worth having a prolonged lockdown that will have little to no effect to the death rate in the UK, 10000 people die a week in the UK, so far we have had 500 deaths from the virus, these statistics represent the spread of the pandemic before the lock down took place.

    At the moment this is all speculation until the death rates are released next year we will not be able to tell if covid 19 has effected the death rate or not, I believe it will not effect the death rate at all as oxford university have completed a study that suggests 50% of the population have had the virus already, which going on people I know with myself included seems to be correct, as many people have had the symptoms but have not been tested and the majority of people who get the virus are asymptomatic.

    President Trump also doesn't believe the virus is worth a full lock down, many restaurants bars and businesses are open in the USA and their partial lock down will be over by next weekend according to the president.

    In the UK we have also built temporary hospitals in London and Birmingham to cope with the mass influx of people that could come in once the lock down has been lifted, I expect as we are now out of europe the way we deal with this virus will be closer to the US.

    Eight hundred thousand people lost their lives protecting our way of life and our society in WWII, is it really worth bankrupting our country and losing our functioning society when this lock down will have little to no effect on the death rate of the UK ?
    I donít disagree that if Covid-19 kills 10,000 people who would probably have died anyway, thatís not affecting the death rate. But thatís like saying this who died in the Spanish Flu pandemic would probably have died during the Great War.

    We may as well close the NHS as thatís just a drain the countryís finances and let people fend for themselves

    Thatís a very selfish attitude to take

    And look at what is happening in the US due to Trumpís inactivity


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    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    @arry

    Its scary that people continue to hold this up against the flu as far as projected death rates but totally miss the fact that flu doesnt have anything like the social impact - it doesnt transmit as easily, it doesnt transfer to medical staff, it affects a different demographic and it doesnt have anything like the same incidence of further symptoms as Covid does. We also dont have anything like the experience of testing or treating it or any vaccine available.

    If youre going to take a solely economic view then theres an argument that business as usual will minimise the impact but it also means that thousands of people, not just oldiwonks, will die unnecessarily. If we make some sacrifices this is not going to happen.
    Money isnt more important than humanity, Id rather be financially broke than morally bankrupt.
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    ^^^ this

    But then again If we all either dead or too sick to work then the economic reasons for not having a lockdown go away

    The US cases are increasing in the 10s of thousands daily 87000 at the current count.

    States are complaining that the Federal government are not doing enough - but thatís a historic pattern (anyone remember how New Orleans was literally forgotten during Hurricane Katrina?)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    Leon,

    8000 deaths in Italy to be caused by a virus in just a couple of months is not to be sneezed at (pun not intended)

    Don’t take the same attitude as Trump did in February where he was literally mocking the rest of the world and saying he was in control of it as the US has now been confirmed as having the most confirmed cases and the numbers are rising faster daily, not decreasing as he predicted. That has been caused by him not understanding the ramifications of not doing enough


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    I can understand what your saying but the average age of death from corona in Italy is 80, people die and old people die more frequently, I dont think Corona will significantly alter the death rate, for that to happen we would need to see above one hundred thousand deaths from Corona in Italy.
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 27-03-2020 at 10:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    I don’t disagree that if Covid-19 kills 10,000 people who would probably have died anyway, that’s not affecting the death rate. But that’s like saying this who died in the Spanish Flu pandemic would probably have died during the Great War.

    We may as well close the NHS as that’s just a drain the country’s finances and let people fend for themselves

    That’s a very selfish attitude to take

    And look at what is happening in the US due to Trump’s inactivity


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    The Spanish Flu pandemic killed around 200 million corona has killed about 25 thousand allegedly.

    The two pandemics are not comparable.
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 27-03-2020 at 10:37.

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    COVID-19 passed 20,000 worldwide deaths yesterday.

    This is the problem with the internet. This is a small number in relation to the population of the world.

    But each and every one is a person. And that just gets lost in PHP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    You have still failed to address my main argument and the majority of points I have raised in my recent posts, you are still waffling on about the Swedish article I posted ? Your waffle is not fooling or distracting anyone but yourself.
    Ok I'll stop 'waffling' about Sweden (you know, the country you inferred we should totally be like ) when you admit you were wrong on these points:
    1) They're not carrying on as normal (your quote: we should carry on as normal like sweden)
    2) They're not ignoring the disease and its implications for the sake of the economy (your quote: sweden have basically said it is not prepared to take such drastic measures that will have a small effect on the epidemic at a cost of losing a functioning society)

    Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    It is not worth having a prolonged lockdown that will have little to no effect to the death rate in the UK, 10000 people die a week in the UK, so far we have had 500 deaths from the virus, these statistics represent the spread of the pandemic before the lock down took place.
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't address your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by arry
    Insignificant difference to death rate - well, now we're getting into the meat of it aren't we. You're putting a number against a number and comparing them as if they were in any way relevant. If 400k of the 500k that died last year died of old age having lived a full and healthy life, you'd say good innings lad fair play; if there were 100,000 babies in that dying from a totally preventable cause, is that just the harsh reality of life? I think we'd dig in and find a way to stop it. You're also assuming the death rate will be light (and clearly there's a lot of people far better informed than you that consider it won't be) but I'm not sure you're positioned in a way to understand the mechanics of a highly infectious virus in the way that the specialists are. Then there's the illness, not just the death, to consider. Pneumonia is a real kicker. Having watched an old girlfriend of mine - fit and healthy - get pneumonia and see her take circa 4-5 months to get back on her feet, it's not something I'd wish on a lot of people. There will be a LOT of people that get pneumonia.

    All of this assumes we have a health service that won't be overwhelmed. Since it's already at levels where the entire Excel London hall is being recommissioned into a makeshift hospital and car factories are popping out medical machinery to hit demand for breathing apparatus, yeah you know what I'd not fancy my chances of having an ICU bed in the coming months if anything did happen to me in the coming months.
    Good one sugar

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    At the moment this is all speculation until the death rates are released next year we will not be able to tell if covid 19 has effected the death rate or not, I believe it will not effect the death rate at all as oxford university have completed a study that suggests 50% of the population have had the virus already, which going on people I know with myself included seems to be correct, hopefully we will soon be near the infection levels required for herd immunity, many people have had the symptoms but have not been tested and the majority of people who get the virus are asymptomatic.
    Yeah exactly, it's unknown ground. But whereas experts are reacting to global data from a position of knowledge and experience, you're just sat in front of your keyboard expunging somewhat radical ( ) solutions to an issue where there are hundreds and thousands of people, potentially millions if things go badly TU, of people at risk of dying of what has proven itself to be a properly nasty disease and not a very nice way to go at all. I wonder if you'd be so brave if you were sat there as an otherwise fit and healthy 40 year old with severe asthma?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    President Trump also doesn't believe the virus is worth a full lock down, many restaurants bars and businesses are open in the USA and their partial lock down will be over by next weekend according to the president.
    Trump's not a great example of a people's man though is he.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    In the UK we have also built temporary hospitals in London and Birmingham to cope with the mass influx of people that could come in once the lock down has been lifted, I expect as we are now out of europe the way we deal with this virus will be closer to the US.
    By golly we've got Brexit into a conversation about infectious disease

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Eight hundred thousand people lost their lives protecting our way of life and our society in WWII, is it really worth bankrupting our country and losing our functioning society when this lock down will have little to no effect on the death rate of the UK ?
    Oh and the war Spectacular.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arry View Post
    Ok I'll stop 'waffling' about Sweden (you know, the country you inferred we should totally be like ) when you admit you were wrong on these points:
    1) They're not carrying on as normal (your quote: we should carry on as normal like sweden)
    2) They're not ignoring the disease and its implications for the sake of the economy (your quote: sweden have basically said it is not prepared to take such drastic measures that will have a small effect on the epidemic at a cost of losing a functioning society)

    Deal?



    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't address your point?



    Good one sugar



    Yeah exactly, it's unknown ground. But whereas experts are reacting to global data from a position of knowledge and experience, you're just sat in front of your keyboard expunging somewhat radical ( ) solutions to an issue where there are hundreds and thousands of people, potentially millions if things go badly TU, of people at risk of dying of what has proven itself to be a properly nasty disease and not a very nice way to go at all. I wonder if you'd be so brave if you were sat there as an otherwise fit and healthy 40 year old with severe asthma?



    Trump's not a great example of a people's man though is he.



    By golly we've got Brexit into a conversation about infectious disease



    Oh and the war Spectacular.
    I have said numerous times I'm not interested in your waffle.

    1.

    Sweden for the most part are carrying on as normal.

    2.

    I have not said they are ignoring the disease and its implications, this is obvious to any one that can read, here is the qoute from the article you keep waffling on about, ......yawn


    Johan Carlson, head of Sweden’s public health agency, last week said the country “cannot take draconian measures that have a limited impact on the epidemic but knock out the functions of society”.

    You speak absolute nonsense, did the corona virus or common cold as it used to be known kill millions in the biggest country by population in the world, even though they didn't have a full lock down and have been open for business ? If you have severe asthma the flu or any respiratory disease would cause serious problems.

    The facts are that this so called pandemic will have little to no affect on the world death rate, and as such it is not worth us losing our freedom and way of life and economy over.
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 27-03-2020 at 12:16.

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    Member arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    I have said numerous times I'm not interested in your waffle.

    1.

    Sweden for the most part are carrying on as normal.
    I'll take that as a retraction

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    2.

    I have not said they are ignoring the disease and its implications, this is obvious to any one that can read, here is the qoute from the article you keep waffling on about, ......yawn


    Johan Carlson, head of Swedenís public health agency, last week said the country ďcannot take draconian measures that have a limited impact on the epidemic but knock out the functions of societyĒ.
    So we'll have to agree to disagree on this one then - you're on record as saying Sweden have basically said it is not prepared to take such drastic measures that will have a small effect on the epidemic at a cost of losing a functioning society, with your view shaped by one sentence of a speech by a health minister quoted in a (shit) newspaper article. I'm on record as having researched the issue, read wider sources on response and taken into account developments since, and have my view off of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    You speak absolute nonsense
    Thanks I'm glad my efforts are appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    did the corona virus or common cold as it used to be known
    That is hilarious That's like saying did the human race or plankton as it used to be known

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    kill millions in the biggest country by population in the world, even though they didn't have a full lock down and have been open for business ?
    As above, it's NOT the same. If you were to compare them you'd have to consider all sorts of biological traits - infection rate would be the first one and guess what, SARS-Cov-2 has proven itself to be more slippery than any that have gone before it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    If you have severe asthma the flu or any respiratory disease would cause serious problems
    Too true. In any other scenario that's gone before it, those serious problems are dealt with by the presence of doctors and nurses able to cope with it, in hospitals that have enough of the right equipment, because the infection rate of previous virally caused respiratory diseases have been nowhere near what we're seeing now. This is new and it's different because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    The facts are that this so called pandemic will have little to no affect on the world death rate, and as such it is not worth us losing our freedom and way of life and economy over.
    In your opinion as a - presumably - fit and healthy male of an age not considered at risk. You will forgive me for suggesting that others might think differently.
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    Mother nature tried to kill me last year and failed, some posh ****ing cough aint gunna do it.





    He says....cough..cough..

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    I suppose Sweden has to find another means of population control now that the suicide rate has dropped significantly


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    Quote Originally Posted by arry View Post
    I'll take that as a retraction



    So we'll have to agree to disagree on this one then - you're on record as saying Sweden have basically said it is not prepared to take such drastic measures that will have a small effect on the epidemic at a cost of losing a functioning society, with your view shaped by one sentence of a speech by a health minister quoted in a (shit) newspaper article. I'm on record as having researched the issue, read wider sources on response and taken into account developments since, and have my view off of that.

    Thanks I'm glad my efforts are appreciated.



    That is hilarious That's like saying did the human race or plankton as it used to be known



    As above, it's NOT the same. If you were to compare them you'd have to consider all sorts of biological traits - infection rate would be the first one and guess what, SARS-Cov-2 has proven itself to be more slippery than any that have gone before it.



    Too true. In any other scenario that's gone before it, those serious problems are dealt with by the presence of doctors and nurses able to cope with it, in hospitals that have enough of the right equipment, because the infection rate of previous virally caused respiratory diseases have been nowhere near what we're seeing now. This is new and it's different because of it.



    In your opinion as a - presumably - fit and healthy male of an age not considered at risk. You will forgive me for suggesting that others might think differently.
    Humans have never been known as plankton, although if you told me your ancestors were monkeys I would believe you

    The corona virus has been around for years, corona virus is a common cold, it is the apparently only the covid 19 strain that is new.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus

    China are coming out of it now even though they are massively over populated and only had a partial lock down.

    It is not my opinion that the corona virus will not significantly alter the world wide death rate, using China and Italy as a model, it is a mathematical fact, and can be verified by anyone who is able to do simple maths.

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