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Thread: Electric power steering

  1. #1
    Guest ps13ben's Avatar
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    Electric power steering

    While looking at a tired hydraulic power steering pump on the PS I was wondering if anyone has ditched their hydraulic power steering system for the electric type?
    Is the drain on the battery a lot more substantial and can the original hydro steering rack be used?
    Just seems like a more simpler system providing I have the space under the dash for the motor.

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    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    Do you mean an electric rack or just an electric pump?

    Over on the BMW Z4 forums one of the biggest complaints is the electric steering, most people want to convert to hydraulic!

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    Guest ps13ben's Avatar
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    In essence it’s a steering column with a motor attached.

    I was under the impression that a lot of track day and race cars run electric power steering so I didn’t think feedback on the steering wasn’t too far away from hydraulic units?

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    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    Might just be the BMW ones...

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    committed. Jezz_S13's Avatar
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    Electric Power steering conversions have been made an MOT fail.
    I'm running an elecrto-hydraulic PAS pump from a Toyota MR-S.


    Edit, I'm sure electric PAS has been made a fail, but I cannot find it so could well be bollocks.
    Last edited by Jezz_S13; 04-10-2018 at 17:12.

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    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    Removal is a fail now:

    3.
    a. Power steering malfunctioning or inoperative or evidence that power assistance has been removed or disconnected when it is known that power steering is standard on the vehicle

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    committed. Jezz_S13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Actual_Ben_Taylor View Post
    Removal is a fail now:

    3.
    a. Power steering malfunctioning or inoperative or evidence that power assistance has been removed or disconnected when it is known that power steering is standard on the vehicle

    Unless...

    13. Extensively Modified Vehicles
    Where a vehicle has been extensively modified or converted, certain defects, such as for components ‘missing where fitted as standard’ should not be applied, for example:
     A car converted for competition rally use (i.e. rear seats removed, fitted with a roll cage and full harness seat belts etc.) may not be fitted with; brake servo, power steering, airbags etc.

    I'd consider my car extensively modified, but not necessarily a rally car.

  8. #8
    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    That's the problem with the MOT, totally subjective...

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    some people are using Mk4 astra pumps. the round pot ones. will draw a fair bit of current but you can just switch it on after the engine has started.

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    committed. Jezz_S13's Avatar
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    I've got an output on my ECU which is configured to switch the PAS pump relay on once the revs are above 400 RPM and battery voltage higher than 12v

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    Guest ps13ben's Avatar
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    out of all the things that would fail an MOT i would of thought electric PAS would.
    The MOTer would have to be some special little guy to spot that surely?

    straying away from the Hydraulic pumped system has anyone had any dealings with the motorised spline type?
    corsabcol1.jpg

  12. #12
    Guest ANDY black s13's Avatar
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    properly convert the rack to manual, PAS is for pathetic weak Girl's and the elderly weak puny people who should not be driving anyway
    if you mention parking you are missing the point

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    It's probably simpler still to just change your PAS pump for a new one dude. The amount of calculation and thought that goes into producing well balanced, rounded feedback in steering would make your eyes bleed.

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    Guest chrispy's Avatar
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    Is it even possible to drive an S13/4 with confidence (i know that's subjective) whilst the car is moving with the PAS removed from the standard rack?

    I deleted all the PAS from my old clio 182 track car and it was great.

    With really wide sticky tires on my S14a track car i wouldn't think you would be able to (I've not driven my car with out it)



    So has anyone driven a S body with out PAS?

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    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Actual_Ben_Taylor View Post
    Removal is a fail now:

    3.
    a. Power steering malfunctioning or inoperative or evidence that power assistance has been removed or disconnected when it is known that power steering is standard on the vehicle
    Speaking as a retired lawyer I would observe that the original poster wasn't proposing to remove or disconnect power assistance from the vehicle. He was suggesting changing hydraulic power assistance to electric power assistance.

    I don't see anything in the quoted regulation that requires the form of power assistance in place to be the same type and nature as that installed by the manufacturer when the car was made, although for the avoidance of doubt I haven't researched the rest of the rule book to see if there is such a requirement.

    If there isn't then I'd have thought the OP is OK to make the swap. Always remembering to notify his insurers of the change as well .

    Personally I don't like electric power assistance compared to the SX's hydraulics. I have close and direct personal experience of it on my second car, an original MGF Abbingdon. If it were possible to swap it for hydraulic then I would. A lot of MGF owners simply pull the fuse out of the box for everyday enthusiastic driving, sticking it back in come MOT time

    PS. I seem to remember an old NicoClub (?) post about taking off power assistance in which the important thing was not only to disconnect the pump and lines, but also to gut the rack itself of all the hydraulic fluid / seals / etc etc, as otherwise they made it almost impossibly heavy to steer. Once removed, much lighter and a straightforward mechanical rack and pinion feel, albeit heavier at parking / low speeds.
    Last edited by Rochester; 08-10-2018 at 14:26.

  16. #16
    Guest ANDY black s13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
    Is it even possible to drive an S13/4 with confidence (i know that's subjective) whilst the car is moving with the PAS removed from the standard rack?

    I deleted all the PAS from my old clio 182 track car and it was great.

    With really wide sticky tires on my S14a track car i wouldn't think you would be able to (I've not driven my car with out it)



    So has anyone driven a S body with out PAS?
    to do it properly the rack needs to be taken apart,remove all the seal/O ring holders from the rack shaft to make it move freely with no drag
    build it back up with CV type grease smothered all over the pinion/rack same as a normal manual rack
    if not the drag or resistance to turn is hard work and not nice to drive as its resisting all the time
    only time the manual rack resists is when cars standing still soon as it's rolling its easy and much more feedback can feel what the tyres are doing etc

    I grew up with non pas cars so nothing new to me,various mk1 & 2 escorts with quick racks 2.5 turns lock to lock and loads of capri's
    I had a mk1 3.0 litre capri with a 10" steering wheel, engine was all cast iron = stupidly front end heavy ,
    a 200 will never be as nose heavy as that thing was
    edit: missed end of rochesters post that covers my ramblings already
    Last edited by ANDY black s13; 08-10-2018 at 17:15. Reason: I need to read more

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    are the electric racks reliable? I seem to remember corsa's having issues with them as well as fiat 500's and pandas etc..

    andy from L2D has converted all of his academy drift cars to run off the Vauxhall pumps.

    im sure the PS13 sr20 pas pump is different in some way to the more common S14 VVT one which is why its harder to obtain a decent s/h one

    ive seen people de-pas S13's before in the quest for power or some waffle like that and they soon go back to it.

  18. #18
    Guest ps13ben's Avatar
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    yea i was only looking at alternatives other than OEM units as mine has seen better days and plus to remedy a leaky rack but Andy my weedy arms cant handle the strain of a manual rack these days

    I guess there are always pros and cons to everything but i was just sticking out the feelers, ideally id keep with the OEM setup as priority.

    i must admit i didn't realise the difference in feedback between Hyro and electric PAS

  19. #19
    Guest ANDY black s13's Avatar
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    stick with the stock set up may be best,
    the main advantage with electric is no engine power loss from running the hydro pump anything up to -5%
    my engineering mate did an electric column from a corsa iirc into a vw camper van had problems with a control to lessen the assistance at speed,
    not 100% but think they had to wire in the column ecu for speed cut off but had problems making it work

  20. #20
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    If you use an electric pump and don't have a fancy ecu, wire it's relay to the fuel pump. Runs when the CAS is turning and for 5 secs after switching on.

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