Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 132

Thread: Modern day 200?

  1. #21
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Helston, West Cornwall
    Posts
    24,460
    Rides
    0
    S13 was 23K in 1993 for a 170 bhp 1.8 turbo RWD weighing a bit over a ton and having no electronics.

    25 years later we have the GT86 at 26K offering 197 bhp (but only 150 lbft of torque) in an n/a 2.0 RWD weighing a bit over a ton and having no electronics. If they added a turbo it would be a bargain 200 replacement even at 30K. 3K added to the price over 25 years ! If you compare general spending power, it would be around 45K for the same car. That lets you spend a lot on mods before you are back at the price of a 1993 S13.

    Also 25 years later, we have the Alpina. 50K (so a little more than the 45K comparible price) but offering 260 bhp from a 1.8 turbo RWD weighing a bit over a ton and having no electronics. It doesn't have a manual box yet though.

    Arguments about the cost to tune is moot IMO. You can buy a car fairly similar to a 200SX nowadays. A Mustang isn't one of them as it has a bigger engine, weighs a lot more and is ma-fcuking-hoosive to sit in and drive. A Mustang is more like an XJS for today

  2. #22
    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Leicester
    Posts
    9,760
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    Apparently on Top Gear Harris, claimed the new Stang is a flat planed crank, so will sound like a 4 cylinder anyway.... yet it didn't.... it sounded like a cross plane
    The GT350 5.2 is a flat plane crank V8.

    The original 5.0 isn't.

  3. #23
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bas Vegas
    Posts
    93,162
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    You can buy a car fairly similar to a 200SX nowadays. A Mustang isn't one of them as it has a bigger engine, weighs a lot more and is ma-fcuking-hoosive to sit in and drive. A Mustang is more like an XJS for today
    Its called Evolution, S13 was a 1.8, S14 was a 2.0 so it makes sense a 200 20 years later would be something like a 2.3 or 2.5. Cars are also getting bigger and heavier, A Golf GTi is around 200kg heavier than a Mk2 one, 27cm longer, 10cm wider and 4cm higher. The Mustang is around 300kg heavier than a S14a, 20cm longer, 18cm wider and 8cm higher but inside its very similar to a 14a IMO. A Nissan GTR is 200kg more than an R34 Cars these days need to be well equipped and have good NVH in order to sell and that adds weight.

    Power/weight ratio of a S14a is around 165bhp/ton, Mustang is around 185bhp/ton.

    Although a GT86 is around the same weight as a S14 its 30cm shorter so not really an evolution from the S14/15.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  4. #24
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    12,137
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    I was asked the other day what i would be looking at when my pcp deal ends in just over a year..
    Well.. err there is SFA really.
    Ok if i want a hothatch your taken care of, the civic is good but ugly and the new megan will be out by then. Both scrabble and i really dont want that.
    The Alpina is far to expensive.
    The GT86 is far to slow, its slower than my 5.
    I dont really want 4wd as thats for puffs and... well a boxster or cayman are too much, the BMs are far to heavy (and i have had one, did not think it was great) and expensive for what you get.

    So.. er...
    You're abit stuffed really.
    Super-hot hatchbacks are whats in vogue now, 300bhp or more, no-one is really interested in putting those engines in a cheap RWD platform - just no money to be made.
    The Fiat 125 Arbath is about as good as it's gunna get, otherwise save up and try to find a cheap Alfa 4C.

    It's doom and gloom for RWD tho - even BMW are making FWD cars now.


  5. #25
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bas Vegas
    Posts
    93,162
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    i was asked the other day what i would be looking at when my pcp deal ends in just over a year..
    Well.. Err there is sfa really.
    Ok if i want a hothatch your taken care of, the civic is good but ugly and the new megan will be out by then. Both scrabble and i really dont want that.
    The alpina is far to expensive.
    The gt86 is far to slow, its slower than my 5.
    I dont really want 4wd as thats for puffs and... Well a boxster or cayman are too much, the bms are far to heavy (and i have had one, did not think it was great) and expensive for what you get.

    So.. Er...
    370z?
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  6. #26
    Ex Mod & Crabbit C**t Rubix_Cube's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Kilmarnock, Ayrshire
    Posts
    14,051
    Rides
    0
    All this modern car talk is quite apt. I'm selling my chaser and looking to move to a M135i. M235i would be great but not really practical. It's crazy though with the Chaser being ~300hp and the M135i being 306hp the M135i feels like it is much faster. Gotta love that twin scroll turbo with crazy low down torque. I know I'm getting old when I am considering the 8Speed Auto and not the manual too!



  7. #27
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bas Vegas
    Posts
    93,162
    Rides
    0
    Mustang has a twin scroll as well, with a small tweek it has V8 torque from 2.5k whereas the V8 doesnt getting going till around 4k
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  8. #28
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    ashflix.com
    Posts
    22,489
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    370z?
    I chose well


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Drunk as usual
    Posts
    34,697
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    370z?

    Its pension age now, its also very heavy and i dont think it will be fairing well in the next two years up against many comparisons in the press.

    Yes everyone wants stupid hatches with 300+ hp and no skill needed to drive, its boring. Drives me up the wall, a hot hatch is a fiesta ST or clio sport... not some near 400 hp 45k 4wd uber bucket.

    Its the bloody public at fault, twats.

    moan over

  10. #30
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bas Vegas
    Posts
    93,162
    Rides
    0
    Get a new Fiesta ST then, 200bhp, LSD and launch control
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  11. #31
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    St. Helens / Snowdonia
    Posts
    16,945
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubix_Cube View Post
    All this modern car talk is quite apt. I'm selling my chaser and looking to move to a M135i. M235i would be great but not really practical. It's crazy though with the Chaser being ~300hp and the M135i being 306hp the M135i feels like it is much faster. Gotta love that twin scroll turbo with crazy low down torque. I know I'm getting old when I am considering the 8Speed Auto and not the manual too!
    Think the m135i is 320bhp, it's the 335i and 435i that is 306bhp. Must admit I have looked at the cost to swap the daily to a M135i only the Golf R and Cupra come close in terms of practicality, performance and tuneable.
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
    2010 - on : 2007 RX8 PZ
    1998 - 2004 : 1991 S13

  12. #32
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Helston, West Cornwall
    Posts
    24,460
    Rides
    0
    So, can I ask....

    If you could buy a brand new S13 in any of the colours it was originally produced in, with an option of leather or cloth seats (like those found in VW R-line or Audi S-line), with a modern sound system (like that fitted to say an up-spec Ford Fiesta) with modern rubber on 17in wheels for the princely sum of 23K....would you ?

    I would. Like a shot.

  13. #33
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Drunk as usual
    Posts
    34,697
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Get a new Fiesta ST then, 200bhp, LSD and launch control
    I tried the old ST along with the gt86 and the ND.
    The old ST had a rubbish interior and didnt feel special enough, it had a lot of kit and went well but ultimately wasnt special enough.
    The gt86 also had a crap interior for a 28k car, it also felt slower than the other two cars - not helped by the torque hole.
    The 5 was obviously the worst for practicality but had the other two cuffed on driver enjoyment and interior. It was also as quick as the ST and was as well equipped - hence now owning one.

    Might try the civic type R, the new one is better than last years chavved up to 11 design.

  14. #34
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Worksop
    Posts
    2,913
    Rides
    0
    Absolutely Jonny, without a second thought.

    Think the 86's biggest problem was it put on 5K somewhere, and it's competition is just too well rounded.

  15. #35
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Drunk as usual
    Posts
    34,697
    Rides
    0
    The 86 would be great with an extra 40ft of torque or 100kilos lost, it just feels... well its almost Great... its just missing something.. umpfh..

  16. #36
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    walsall/tamworth
    Posts
    6,705
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    So, can I ask....

    If you could buy a brand new S13 in any of the colours it was originally produced in, with an option of leather or cloth seats (like those found in VW R-line or Audi S-line), with a modern sound system (like that fitted to say an up-spec Ford Fiesta) with modern rubber on 17in wheels for the princely sum of 23K....would you ?

    I would. Like a shot.
    your problem is that it would fail the emissions and safety tests, so would need loads of modern mumbo-jumbo bolting onto it making it astmatic and lardy.
    then you have the fact that s13's are actually lethal/comedy handling wise compared to modern stuff that people are used too, that's why they get crashed weeks after being bought by kids who are 'used to fast carz mate' had a gttdi golf innit.

    but yeah, id have a kouki type X that did modern day MPG figures for 23k.. well as long as it didn't have a comedy spec Ariel.

    im actually half car shopping at the moment and there is nothing that I actually like.

  17. #37
    Guest ANDY black s13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    erith kent england
    Posts
    6,350
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    The 86 would be great with an extra 40ft of torque or 100kilos lost, it just feels... well its almost Great... its just missing something.. umpfh..
    can't remember who it was on here atm, but they were looking at a light damage salvage 86 and doing a SR20 swap
    (sooner use a CA myself than the boosted tree hugging 'lets all save the planet hippie engine ) and gave me an idea for a future project
    nothing else interests me as as a road car replacement for the 13, maybe a caterfield esque type thing for pure track use

    Nothing wrong with the mustang if it has all the bits you want and performance/handling, just too big and overloaded with things I never use to me
    it may well hide it's 360 kgs over an S chassis with well developed suspension etc,give it time and tuners will get big power out of the thing
    and it could be the next car to get,,,when the crowd killer,DON'T do a burout internets memes have died down

  18. #38
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    St. Helens / Snowdonia
    Posts
    16,945
    Rides
    0
    Is the 4 cylinder Mustang the same engine and power as the Focus RS?
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
    2010 - on : 2007 RX8 PZ
    1998 - 2004 : 1991 S13

  19. #39
    Guest ANDY black s13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    erith kent england
    Posts
    6,350
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
    Is the 4 cylinder Mustang the same engine and power as the Focus RS?
    no the 'stang has a 2.3 four banger makes a bit more power than the RS 2.0, the 2.3 block is better designed ,
    2.0 block exhaust side of cylinders 2+3 is missing lots of bore support,some are burning coolant/overheating and the head and block distorts
    open deck design is not ideal for boost either, the 2.3 can make and handle a power hike

  20. #40
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bas Vegas
    Posts
    93,162
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ANDY black s13 View Post
    no the 'stang has a 2.3 four banger makes a bit more power than the RS 2.0, the 2.3 block is better designed ,
    2.0 block exhaust side of cylinders 2+3 is missing lots of bore support,some are burning coolant/overheating and the head and block distorts
    open deck design is not ideal for boost either, the 2.3 can make and handle a power hike
    Wrong

    Both are 2.3s and its basically the same engine but the RS has a a different cooling circuit. RS is 350bhp, Mustang is 310. A stage 1 remap takes it up to RS power with V8 torque.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •