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Thread: Science, Critical Thinking and Scepticism... What do the people of the SXOC think?

  1. #41
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    Regarding 9/11, I doubt it was an inside job. You'd need too many people involved leaving too many people who might out the truth. It's more plausible that terrorists also planned explosives that were triggered by the planes than the government. Also, the titanic sank because of an ice berg that shouldn't have harmed it; it doesn't take much to result in a huge issue, just the steel not being quite up to standard.

    This had some good points on 9/11 (not my words, I mean no disrespect to anyone who does believe 9/11 was done by people in power) http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....i?u=911_morons

  2. #42
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    Surprised no one has mentioned the moon landings yet
















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  3. #43
    Member sx rider's Avatar
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    haha the moon landings, most of the conspiracies around that have been debunked but it was good entertainment

  4. #44
    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    All of the conspiracies around 9/11 have been debunked too, along with all of the moon landing ones, face on mars, jesus on a slice of burned toast (And lots of other pareidolia), Rothschilds controlling the world banks (https://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/04/07...acebook-memes/)... the list goes on. Wikipedia is great for learning about the theories and how/why they're nonsense. The Alt Med people really dislike it quite a lot!

    How about astrology? Or the illuminati - perhaps they are coming to murder us all in our sleep while taking over the world?

    People still believe, even when it's proven beyond not only a reasonable doubt, but beyond any sane doubt, people love a bit of belief. Some would argue belief is part of the human condition - studies have shown it's been selected for and has had benefits in our evolution - ironically.

  5. #45
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    The best conspiracy theory is that trump didn't want to win, he used the campaign as an advertising platform but won anyway so now he's trying to get booted out

  6. #46
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilchap View Post
    How about astrology?
    I cant believe people have made a living out of this tripe All this 'the stars are aligned which will bring you good fortune this week' cowdung. Deluded beings read their star signs hoping it will bring them luck or to explain when shit happens (its very similar to religion really).

    This brings me on to mediums. Fooking con artists praying on the weak minded and those who are experiencing grief

    Dara's stand up routines sum up how i feel





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  7. #47
    Member sx rider's Avatar
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    I have seen some debunk 911 stuff bu aparent thermite charges causing molten iron hasnt been explained away yet, akaik.

    JFK is another one missing from the chat for far, was it the Mob, Feds, CIA, Russians, Cubans, Illuminati, George Bush Snr, or just Oswald? Having seen plenty of stuff about this I am undecided, each theory puts forward a compelling case but who knows what info they are twisting to make it seem a certain way...

  8. #48
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Surprised no one has mentioned the moon landings yet
















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    Whoo hoo i win forum bingo.
    Hitler and moon landings in the same few posts - 10 points to sideways.

  9. #49
    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    The best bit on astrology... the 13th sign which the basically ignore.

    http://www.itechpost.com/articles/35...ology-news.htm

    Always good for a chuckle!

  10. #50
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    "All my clients are freaking out," Shelley Ackerman

    Hmm Your clients are spongaloids

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin101 View Post
    Question - how is belittling people for their beliefs and calling them names any better than what some factions of religious groups do to others?

    When trying to talk down religion the same arguments are brought forward about all the bad things it makes people do. Faith doesn't make you do anything. Even if the concept of God had never existed throughout history people would still have done awful things to each other, they would just have found a different excuse for it.

    My partner's mum passed away in November and I was asked to help with some of the funeral preparations and with some of the ceremonies before and after. Their family is Hindu, not out to temple every week but they would observe the various festivals and what not - mostly out of habit. To the point anyway: I know that putting loads of different things in the casket with her and spending 3 hours afterwards helping "prepare her soul" and everything was illogical. But you know what? It helped. Not me necessarily but it helped her family and her friends with their grief and start to move on as best they could. My partner is in no way religious; she has never been to temple, and she only observed festivals because her parents did but even she commented afterwards that it felt like it "mattered" and it meant something to her.

    Some people don't need that and that's fine, but does it give anyone the right to tell them they are wrong/stupid/arrogant?

    So sure, believing in some higher power may seem pointless, but sometimes a little bit of faith really helps.

    Don't confuse those people with the ones stoning people in the streets or blowing themselves up in crowded places.

    I am playing devil's advocate a little but the level of intolerance to different points of view I come across now a days is mind boggling. See the EU thread or the response to any reference to Trump...
    On the back of what I said I do agree with you mate. If you need Religion and it helps you, you keep it to yourself and don't judge anyone off it then great. However, the majority of very Religious folk I've spoken to do judge people they've never met solely off Religion. For example: homosexuals. My best mate has very derogatory views towards homosexuals fuelled off his Religious beliefs. Now when you're Religious and it affects no-one else then great, but what annoys me is when your beliefs affect other people, then I have a problem. Voicing your opinion of homosexuals in their presence or the presence of people who are close with them, jumping to conclusions about them without even knowing them based off your Religion is what I have a gripe with. My comment of arrogance was based more towards those kinds of individuals.

  12. #52
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
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    My take on 9/11; From a military point of view it achieved it's objectives perfectly so could not have been planned by the Government/Military. Any ex forces person could tell you this.

    People who vehemently state there is no god are just as ridiculous as those who state there is. Belief is something else, if it gives you comfort then who am I to say it is wrong.

    Chickened out, nothing to see.
    Last edited by cleanhands; 01-02-2017 at 17:38.

  13. #53
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanhands View Post
    People who vehemently state there is no god are just as ridiculous as those who state there is. Belief is something else, if it gives you comfort then who am I to say it is wrong.
    I have a really big problem with religion,
    It sits at the heart of most cultures has been responsible for a lot of the worst losses of life over history, is a multi billion dollar entity and influences decision making from pleb to president.
    In a nutshell its a bloody epidemic and thus i most certanally feel i have a right to criticize it and people who let it rule there life.

  14. #54
    Guest ben8000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanhands View Post

    People who vehemently state there is no god are just as ridiculous as those who state there is.

    Very true I am an agnostic atheist.

  15. #55
    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
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    I agree, religion is evil, ironically. It just seems to be more about "Yours is wrong, mine is the correct one", but takes it to the nth degree where millions of people have died for it, or is religion just an excuse to take someone's land?


    May be ridiculous is a bit strong. It's the certainty I don't get.
    Last edited by cleanhands; 01-02-2017 at 17:40.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanhands View Post
    I agree, religion is evil, ironically. It just seems to be more about "Yours is wrong, mine is the correct one", but takes it to the nth degree where millions of people have died for it, or is religion just an excuse to take someone's land?


    May be ridiculous is a bit strong. It's the certainty I don't get.
    I'm fairly convinced that if there was no concept of God that people kill each other regardless, but just come up with a new reason for it.

    Most religious people aren't trying to force their stuff down your throat or argue the toss about who's God is better. But you can be damn sure that all you hear about is the ones who do.

  17. #57
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    OK. Here's my take on things...

    Life almost certainly exists on other planets as that is where we came from. Life as we know it formed on this planet as a consequence of the basic elements required to create and sustain life on the planet arriving on an asteroid followed by an inordinately improbable set of circumstances occurring.

    But then we all believe that a million to one shot will come off 9 times out of 10

    I'm pleasantly surprised to hear some reasonably sophisticated thinking being expressed on religion. Most people are still at the "There isn't some guy sitting on a cloud looking after you and yourn" stage but a few have progressed to some understanding of the pros and cons of religious belief through the ages.

    Anyone out there that would like to move on from a scoffing "it's just the tooth fairy for grown-ups", should read Alain de Botton's Religion for Atheists. The author is a lapsed Jew and a philosopher and its very readable. He looks at both sides of the "religious coin" so that you can start to understand how it could make sense to some without being "true".

    I've had some very stimulating conversations (with Christians and Muslims mostly and a few Jews) with people who are believers and I have to say, most of the rational ones are the ones who study theology and try to understand why they believe what they believe. I guess I'm lucky in that I have people around me that want to discuss it rather than to convince me (There are a few of those but I choose to live quite a way from them )

    I have this idea that religion makes a little more sense if you differentiate between religion (someone's belief in a higher, controlling power) and the church (in the sense of organised religion be that Christian, Muslim, Hindu or whatever rather than the big building that no-one seems to go to any more).

    Someone's personal religion can give them strength in adversity, a sense of direction and a prepackaged moral code. Having a belief that, if you follow a set of rules, you stand a good chance of achieving a pleasant outcome is a fairly simplistic but common thing to believe, whether or not you call it a religion.

    It can help you to pull yourself through trying times and fend off depression and/or a feeling of being lost/without direction.

    Organised religions can also play a positive role in helping individuals to persevere in the face of adversity. I know people without faith that have struggled to accept the loss of parents and others with faith who have remained almost unbelievably strong after losing their child to suicide.

    From here on out, most readers will have hit the tl;dr button and maybe some of you who read on will move into WTF mode but here goes...

    Churches have been responsible for some good and some bad, but it is important that you understand that you are judging it by your own moral code.

    You only think that the "atrocities" committed in the name of religion are evil (be it crusades, ISIS, IRA, Soviet pograms or whatever) because you have been brought up to believe in the sanctity of human life (which is a fundamental belief of most Western religions BTW).

    You struggle to understand how a mother can believe that her only son gave his life for a "just cause" when he climbs aboard a bus full of school children and blows himself up, yet most of you will empathise when watching roughly the same thing (a mother losing her child) if its in a film like "Saving Private Ryan".

    If you have a moral code that you live by, then you have religion. Its just not a recognised, named religion.

    And I'll leave you with this thought... If all people who believe in God are stupid, how come Professor Stephen Hawkins is a believer ?

    p.s. For the avoidance of doubt, I cannot bring myself to believe in any recognised religion or any sort of omnipotent power and I think I'm the poorer for it as it makes it harder to bear the sling and arrows of outrageous fortune

  18. #58
    Everything must go MattyGee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post

    And I'll leave you with this thought... If all people who believe in God are stupid, how come Professor Stephen Hawkins is a believer ?
    He isnt, hes an atheist: http://www.rawstory.com/2014/09/step...cing-than-god/
    Its gone!

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyGee View Post
    He said "“I believe the universe is governed by the laws of science. The laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws.”

    He also hasn't come up with a credible alternative to how it all got started

  20. #60
    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    God my arse...




    ....i also say this after a curry sometimes.

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