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Thread: Science, Critical Thinking and Scepticism... What do the people of the SXOC think?

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    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    Science, Critical Thinking and Scepticism... What do the people of the SXOC think?

    I have recently got into this sort of thing, as a point of interest and way of thinking mostly.

    Since letting the cat out of the bag a bit, and having a couple of debates, one reasoned, and one really not, I thought the internet would be an excellent place to get some thoughts on this subject - and where better than the SXOC where there exists a massive range of opinions, ages and demographics.



    So, my first little chat was with a friend who was convinced of the following:

    The Rothschild family own all the wealth in the world, including every bank in the world. They're a force for evil and control world governments.

    I called nonsense, but it's a popular conspiracy theory. Despite showing evidence to the contrary I could get reason through. I was not presented with anything representing a fact to change my view. The amounts of money the conspiracy types claim they have tends to be more than the sum total of wealth in the world.


    My second, better debate was reasoned and calm, and interesting, on the subject of 9/11 - specifically WTC7.

    His angle is the building should not have fallen down, it was barely burning, and was meant to withstand it. He sent me many links to mainly members of the tin hate brigade, but also to some reasonable professional people.

    My angle is that it's a building, and it was on fire all over, for hours, after another building fell on it, a bit. Also the sprinklers didn't work, and there was no water pressure to put it out, so it was left. So more of less of course it was going to fall down, eventually.



    So there we have it, what are the SXOC opinions on these and other popular ones?

    Are you pro or anti vaccination?

    Do you frequent a Chiropractor or Osteopath?

    How about acupuncture?

    Alien visitation?

    Big Foot?

    Religion even - any Scientologists here?

    Fuel cells on standard cars making power / mpg differences.

    Hope this is OK as a thread, feel free to delete it if it's viewed as bringing things into dis-repute

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    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
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    People that are anti vaccination make me laugh, right old load of nonsense.
    I knew someone that was into 'faith healing' anti-vax and all that shit.

    Kids got Tuberculosis and the council took them away.

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    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    I am going to upset people here but fook it

    ALL religion is fairy tale cult nonsense If you tell people you believe in Santa, or the tooth fairy they will think you are mental or 3 years old. But if you tell them a bloke put millions of animals on a boat and another was nailed to a cross then came back to life or when you die you are going to a place thats full of virgins its perfectly sane reasoning. If I went around preaching I was a Jedi and believed there was a force that controlled everything in the universe I would get locked up

    No religion is better than any other and its all superstitious poppycock. How any educated person in the 21st century thinks any of it is true is beyond me but then I am a naysayer and am going to hell (if it existed, which it doesnt )

    Monsters like Bigfoot and Nessie are also bullshit as with todays tech someone would have high res photos of them by now and probably even killed them

    Aliens exist (it would be naive to thing we are the only planet out of millions to be able to support life) but I am not convinced any have been here yet.

    A good Osteopath is worth their weight in gold.
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    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    I can see what you mean mostly there Mark. The whole 'my imaginary friend is better than yours' nonsense, or worse when they have the same one, but disagree on what fictional thing he may or may not have said or done, as reported by believers hundreds of years later...

    But moving on - the Osterpath thing is interesting.

    http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Osteopa...roduction.aspx

    I have experienced the benefits of a good physio therapist, that's based in science and proven with many studies, and has much evidence.

    An Osteopath I am not sure sure about though, as it's not a medically proven thing, there's lots of newage nonsense surrounding it. To my mind there's no such thing as alternative medicine. Something is either medicine, by virtue of doing the job it's meant to, or being used for, and is easily proven in multiple replicated double blinded placebo controlled tests... or it's not medicine, and thus basically snake oil and a scam.

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    Member TiredOldGit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I am going to upset people here but fook it

    ALL religion is fairy tale cult nonsense If you tell people you believe in Santa, or the tooth fairy they will think you are mental or 3 years old. But if you tell them a bloke put millions of animals on a boat and another was nailed to a cross then came back to life or when you die you are going to a place thats full of virgins its perfectly sane reasoning. If I went around preaching I was a Jedi and believed there was a force that controlled everything in the universe I would get locked up

    No religion is better than any other and its all superstitious poppycock. How any educated person in the 21st century thinks any of it is true is beyond me but then I am a naysayer and am going to hell (if it existed, which it doesnt )

    Monsters like Bigfoot and Nessie are also bullshit as with todays tech someone would have high res photos of them by now and probably even killed them

    Aliens exist (it would be naive to thing we are the only planet out of millions to be able to support life) but I am not convinced any have been here yet.

    A good Osteopath is worth their weight in gold.



    This could be the basis of a reasonable manifesto - Mark for PM!
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    Why?

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    Guest ben8000's Avatar
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    An old school acquaintance truly believes the earth is flat and chem trails are the bane of his life.

    Search stan smith on YT. It is hilarious. He has dozens of videos with supposedly 100% proof chemtraild are real and earth flat etc. All it actually shows is he didn't listen in gcse science.

    I saw an interesting study that showed people who believe in tin hat theorys are more suggestable than others. Scientists put up several fake theories and with the right websites and supposed experts had a decent following of believes. It said that because they only get there info from one, very one sided source and not a collection of all media and scientific papers they would only believe their trusted source and all others were corrupted despite being shown the theories they believed in had been made up for an experiment.

    11/9 Even ch4 did a reasonable documentary details the hoaxs and debunking them. Most of it come dows to a lack of practical knowledge.

    As Mark said all religion is nonsense. Simply a way to have power over others for own gains and because humans simply cannot comprehend their own insignificance.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Religion has its place. It seems to me it was a means of giving people a common moral code to live by way back when. We have a well defined justice system now though so it seems superfluous but I can understand that people might want to believe there is something else out there to give meaning to what we do while we're alive.

    Anyone who has suffered with depression could tell you how hard it is to find a reason to keep going or make sense of what is happening but with faith then that reason is a support to fall back on. In a good community it can be helpful because everyone (generally) has a common objective to simply lead a good life and those are good people to be around at those times. It's not to say that non-religious people don't behave the same way but maybe you see what I'm driving at. I tend to think of it in that capacity as a hobby much like anything else people do with their spare time but it can be a little more encompassing of your life as a whole than other hobbies.

    I went to a Catholic school and obviously Religion Education was a fairly big part of that in some form or another but the way the stories were presented was to look beyond the physical thing that was happening and try and see if there is some morality or something else to learn from it. Some parts of the Bible are easier to do this with than others - you can never know the intention of the people who wrote it, much like any other book. Unless (in modern times) the author tells you what they were thinking but that makes it boring...

    I don't practise any more but I don't look back at the times I did with disdain or anything else, it just doesn't feel like something I need to do any more if you see what I mean?

    I will never understand people who read religious texts and treat it as the undisputed truth of things that happened.

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    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    I would add I am not against an organisation which 'preaches' being good to one another, community spirit and has a very strong moral compass and code. People like to belong, some need to, and that's fine.

    The bit that I struggle with is why it has to be based in fiction.

    Once a week, say a Sunday morning, if I could go and meet a load of people and have a catch up, maybe a light beverage and snack, maybe a bit of a sing song to popular or fun music, and even have some speakers in to give lectures or talks on relevant happenings - perhaps the latest discoveries in various fields of science... This sounds like quite a nice place to be!

    Invoke all the almighty overseer stuff, where one has to be sorry all the time, and worry about what some cruel master being thinks of my actions at all times feels like it undermines any personal attempt at doing or being good - as one could argue it's being done only for the final reward of going to a better place. Remove all that, and you're doing good for its own sake, which has to be better!

    A bit like aid organisations funded by religious groups. Great, a bunch of people raising money to help others. Brilliant idea. Attaching strings and trying to indoctrinate the weak and vulnerable? There's laws against such things, when working with the young or vulnerable you can't be suggesting things to them left right and centre! What qualifies you, over their say primary care physician if you're against a transfusion? If they take it to heard, a bit of doing good could actually kill people... and does!

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    Trade Rep & Great Guy Clint's Avatar
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    The earth is 2,000 years old and dinosaurs never existed.

    The fossils were put there by God to test our faith.

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    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    The earth is 2,000 years old and dinosaurs never existed.

    The fossils were put there by God to test our faith.
    You crazy fool. It's 6000 years. Don't you know anything?

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    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilchap View Post
    *lots of valid points*
    In my experience the process isn't as severe as you've made out. Most of the priests I've dealt with across a handful of parishes across the country have been fairly easy going and recognise the challenges. Some aren't admittedly and that is reflected in the way people behave and respond within those areas - which is a shame. The religious service side of things is just community building at a specific time and place and I think most who do it (particularly the younger ones) seem to understand that.

    There are dubious sides to every religion, none of them are perfect but that isn't due to religion that's due to people. You don't need religion to be in a cult, there are plenty of them doing just fine with no reliance on some almighty being to follow. Religion is just a convenient excuse.

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    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    You're right, of course

    I was basing my opinion on my most recent experience (a wedding) where the vicar or priest type chap went on more about his God than about the couple he was marrying - despite knowing one of them from birth! It was uncomfortable to watch for a number of us - we're not 'militant athiest' or anything, but it just didn't feel appropriate.

    I have a friend who is I think a 'lay preacher' among many other things, and she doesn't inflict it on people in normal life. She's a maths teacher and a thoroughly decent human being who gives up almost all of her time to volunteer to help with all sorts of things. For people like that I have a lot of time indeed. I just struggle to relate to needing a being or special text to refer to and base life round - but that is likely because it's not something I have ever done, nor has my family, so it seems unusual. To many people it's probably perfectly normal and understandable.

    A bit like smoking, in an odd way. I have never done it, and can't grasp why somebody would start in the first place. There's only downsides - be it cost, smell, or a touch of death, and yet millions of people take it up. They then get addicted, and struggle to stop - another thing which I struggle to relate with, perhaps I just haven't found the right vice yet...

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    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    If there were 'almighty beings' looking over us then we wouldnt have famine, disease and child cancer for starters or is that just 'Gods way' as the crazys normally say

    Religion is an excuse to go invade peoples countries and kill them, always has been, always will be. Of course there is 'Religion Lite' where you just go to church on a Sunday and dont eat meat on Good Friday but thats the people who use it as a comfort blanket and generally dont harm people. However its still all fiction but if it makes people feel all fuzzy inside then good luck to them.

    I am off to now to practice my force choking
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    I like Mark, he seems fair.
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    Mark is right.

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    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I am off to now to practice my force choking
    Is your mrs into that sort of thing then??

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    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    Ouch i am going to have a field day in this thread, i will have to attend to your points in various parts as the sideways rant machine cannot cope with doing them all justice in one post.

    Suffice to say i will be using the words "Flid or Flids", "mongtoid", "Mongtard", "Retard" and "c0ckgobbler" a lot to describe various people and thinking.

    Please stay tunes, c0ckgobblers.

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    I can't understand why conspiracy theory's always seem to find the most complex way of explaining things. Simple is normally the best answer.

    E.g. Chemtrails. Could it be something simple, engines, vapour from turbulence. No, it's some secret government agency spending tons of money, with a secret network of airports and planes. Hundreds of people keeping it all quiet. And for wat reason, who has the time to bother with all that. Blimey, the slightest wiff of news like that and the press would be all over it.
    Im sure the people who start these theories are just trying to wind their mates up.
    Last edited by snops; 31-01-2017 at 17:18.

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    Member sx rider's Avatar
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    I do love a good conspiracy theory and I think world leaders do too. Reason being is they can hide behind this, with the hope that most think lizard people are as ridiculous as so called false flag operations. One being false and one real imo.

    The problem is who to believe, people can put a theory forward and hide other essential facts, swaying the reader/view toward their way of thinking. Conspiracy theorists, goverments and the media all do this massively.

    I do think 911 was an inside job, too much fishy business going on there. I also believe the guys who own the banks and other large corporations have a massive control on the world, e.g recessions are part of the plan to get rich while normal folk suffer.

    I do not think the earth is flat or think the queen is a lizard

    edit: this is the kind of 911 wierdness I am talking about
    Last edited by sx rider r17t; 31-01-2017 at 17:21.

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    Guest mcleansc's Avatar
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    Science, Critical Thinking and Scepticism... What do the people of the SXOC think?

    Religion is nonsense. Contrary to popular belief (and my own) it didn't give humans a 'moral code' to live by. Apparantly its ok to crucify, burn alive and disembowel those who don't believe in your god. It also promotes the rape of children. We became the social animals we are today in spite of Religion.. not thanks to it. Read the first and second chapter of 'The Better Angels of Our Nature' by Steve Pinker, he describes it to a tee with quotes from both the Old and New Testament. I'm currently reading it and it's a very, very good read.

    I think we take for granted how knowledgable we are today. A child probably knows more than some of the smartest people in our history. Before we knew that we orbited a sun we actually believed it went away and came back. Why does the sun leave and come back? Why does it rain? Why are there natural disasters? We had no idea what could have caused these phenomenon. Being human we need answers and I think a God was what we came up with.

    The scope and power of 'God' has plummeted over the centuries. People we burnt alive in Galileo's time for believing we weren't the centre of the universe because we have this human arrogance that everything was made for us. However, now the only real unanswered question is: how did the Universe come to be?? We have Scientists working on string theory and yes it may sound crazy.. but no more crazy than a scientist telling his friends many years ago that there's tiny little organisms living in us and are all around us.. but we can't see them! Trust me though, they are there!

    I mean come on! A floating dude up in the sky who's more worried about you eating pork than the starving children dying all over the world? It's actually rather arrogant if you believe that.

    The whole 9/11 thing.. I'm still unsure. All I know is a 'Pancake' style collapse (where one floor falls on another) doesn't cause a building to fall straight down... twice in a row. And a pancake collapse takes a lot longer than 19 seconds to happen on a building that size.

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    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcleansc View Post
    but no more crazy than a scientist telling his friends many years ago that there's tiny little organisms living in us and are all around us.. but we can't see them! Trust me though, they are there!
    Dude thats like... a film... ya know.. the force n all that...

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    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    Anyway i follow Satan on facebook, would totally recommend it as this dude has a really good insight into religion - as much as to say he seems to be a mole inside of it with all the clever stuff he finds out about god and that jebus chappy.


    Always nice to see book reviews as well.


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