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Thread: SR20 has no spark after swap into r33. Not being lazy I've tried and tried

  1. #1
    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    SR20 has no spark after swap into r33. Not being lazy I've tried and tried

    I've taken my SR out my 14 so I can restore the shell. So....Please no debates on why I shouldn't put an SR in my 33. I just really need help!!!

    I've wired my SR engine harness through plug F4.

    I have a working fuel pump.

    I don't have spark.

    I've followed the s14 FSM for what to do when there is no spark and I have everything I should have. The coil pack plugs have 12 volts.

    I discovered at one point I had the injector relay drawing power from a wire on the r33 m62 plug (other side of f4) which caused a 10 amp fuse to blow (for r33 clock packs) I understand it draws through a 30amp fuse on my s14 so I used a live feed from the 30amp fuse under the bonnet of the r33 (for abs which I don't have)... That wire gave me 12v perm live.

    The ignition relay clicks on and off as it should and I tried a spare for good measure.

    It seems to me that my spark plugs are just not being told to fire. I have no idea why.

    Eccs relay works as should. Continuity to the power transistor unit from the ECU plug is there.

    I'm at the point of thinking maybe my ECU has broken. It worked fine in my 14 though.

    Any ideas would be amazing. I've been ****ing about for 5 days now. Only took me 2 days to build the 33 up from a totally bare shell lol

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    I had a thought just now. Could I have wired things so I have 12v power on my multi meter with the ignition on. But as soon as I crank the car - so put the ignition switch to 4... That I don't have 12v anymore?

    That would explain why everything checks out wire by wire but then I get no spark...

    Btw I have both engine earth's on the inlet plenum and I also have the ignition loom earth. I've continuity checked these earth's as well.

    My ECU earth's are as intended and my f4 plug earth's I've put to a chassis ground.

  3. #3
    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    As a side note. I've found endless links to John Bennet's threads. However all his guides are now deadinks

    If anyone has his files I'll happily host them! I'm sure they would have helped me no end

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    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    I'm assuming S14 here rather than S14A, couple of things to check (after you check that the ECU is fully plugged in):

    12v going from the ignition coil relay (pin 3) to the coil packs (pin 2) and a decent ground for the coils (pin 1).

    Continuity between pins 1, 2, 11, 12 on the ECU and 5, 4, 2, 1 on the PTU

    Continuity between the PTU on 6, 7, 8, 9 to pin 3 on the coils

    Decent ground on the PTU pin 3

  5. #5
    Guest norfy's Avatar
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    when you did the conversion did you use the two large(ish) square 8 pin connectors from the r33 engine loom? they plug in just in front of the nsf turret on the r33. iirc one is black and the other is a clear ish colour. they are the main power feeds for the engine loom.

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    If your concerned about the power dropping out when cranking then either bump start it or bridge the starter to crank it over without the key.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Actual_Ben_Taylor View Post
    I'm assuming S14 here rather than S14A, couple of things to check (after you check that the ECU is fully plugged in):

    12v going from the ignition coil relay (pin 3) to the coil packs (pin 2) and a decent ground for the coils (pin 1).

    Continuity between pins 1, 2, 11, 12 on the ECU and 5, 4, 2, 1 on the PTU

    Continuity between the PTU on 6, 7, 8, 9 to pin 3 on the coils

    Decent ground on the PTU pin 3
    It's an S14 but I'm starting to wonder if my S14 is a late model one as the loom has bits that are missing from the FSM (such as stuff for ABS) and it has bit's that are defiantly different to what the FSM says.

    The steps you've described. Are they the ones from the diagnostics section in the FSM? I've followed them and everything checked out.


    Quote Originally Posted by norfy View Post
    when you did the conversion did you use the two large(ish) square 8 pin connectors from the r33 engine loom? they plug in just in front of the nsf turret on the r33. iirc one is black and the other is a clear ish colour. they are the main power feeds for the engine loom.
    I know the ones your on about bud. I've not used the plugs however I did use the 30amp 12v feed from the R33 engine room harness which I traced back to the R33 fuse box. I used that to power the black and red wire on plug (f4) on my SRs loom. This wire is in position 48 (using the FSM pinout diagram)... strangly just about everything i can find says that that pin should have a red a blue wire that feeds the injectors. In my loom it goes to the ingnition relaqy and to the large gray 8 pin plug which plugs into the injector loom.

    have I got that wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by jon200 View Post
    If your concerned about the power dropping out when cranking then either bump start it or bridge the starter to crank it over without the key.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I've done that (removed the started wire which goes from the R33s loom to the starter solenoid, so that the car doesn't physically crank.)... but if i've cocked up how i've ran my Lives and it's not providing a live to the injectors when the inginiton switch is on "Start" then it wouldn't matter what the starter motor loom is doing would it?



    thank you for the replies everyone! please keep the ideas coming.

    I've spent a lot of time bashing my head against a brick wall now and the squishy sound is getting painful... Ideally I think I need an F4 pinout that actually makes sense for my EFI loom and to know what each wire needs to draw. Then I could to with knowing where to get the feeds form on the R33 (though I've pinned stuff on the car to figure some feeds out myself so thats not as bad.

  8. #8
    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    ECU plugs are different between S14 and S14a (+ late s14), so you should be able to tell from that

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    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    I've had a Google and it seems my ECU is the earlier type. It has a blue plug with two mounting tabs. One tab on each side of the bolt.

    Googling the part number hasnt helped much but it's a red label and says A18-co3 g72.

    I have a square black keyfob and no sign of the NATS stuff in the original s14 which is good

  10. #10
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    I'm assuming you've thought of this already, but a UK S14 ECU has NATS built in, so unless you're using the barrel/key/halo etc from the S14 or you've bypassed the immobiliser it won't start.

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    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by handsomedez View Post
    I'm assuming you've thought of this already, but a UK S14 ECU has NATS built in, so unless you're using the barrel/key/halo etc from the S14 or you've bypassed the immobiliser it won't start.
    Didn't think that was necessary on an S14, Lucas box isn't part of the ECU harness.

    (Also I think it only cuts fuel pump relay signal, CAS power and 12V to the ECU).
    Last edited by Actual_Ben_Taylor; 07-02-2017 at 15:08.

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    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by handsomedez View Post
    I'm assuming you've thought of this already, but a UK S14 ECU has NATS built in, so unless you're using the barrel/key/halo etc from the S14 or you've bypassed the immobiliser it won't start.
    I hadn't thought of it as I'm 99.9% sure I don't have nats. No HALO on my S14 and no evidance of any of the NATS stuff referenced in the FSM. Also I have the earlier style keyfob. My 14 is defiantly a UK model and was unmodified when I bought it (certainly the engine had never been out)

    Quote Originally Posted by Actual_Ben_Taylor View Post
    Didn't think that was necessary on an S14, Lucas box isn't part of the ECU harness.

    (Also I think it only cuts fuel pump relay signal, CAS power and 12V to the ECU).
    That was my understanding, ironically no power to the ECU does seem to be my issue. It's why I'm begining to wonder if i've killed my ECU

  13. #13
    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    Thought i'd upload some photos of my ECU just to clear it up. can someone confirm I have what I think I have. That is a UK S14 (not S14a) i.e. Zenki ECU which has no NATS







    Cheers

    I've also just printed out all the wiring diagrams for ignition etc from the PDF of the FSM. With luck that will help. Stripped all the tapae off my loom so I'll chase 1 wire at a time while slowly going mad lol

  14. #14
    Guest norfy's Avatar
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    sent you a message (very late one) on dw about two wires that need checking, theyre are applicable to uk s14's.

    when cranking do the injectors fire? fuel getting into the cylinders? the injectors/coils/fuel pump (not priming) work from the cas-ecu.

    get your multimeter and check the following pins on the ecu connector with the ecu disconnected.
    - #58 & #109 red 12v
    - #45 b/w ignition 12v (check it when cranking as well)

    make sure you have a nice fat healthy earth from inlet to chassis (pretty sure you said you have already)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Actual_Ben_Taylor View Post
    Didn't think that was necessary on an S14, Lucas box isn't part of the ECU harness.

    (Also I think it only cuts fuel pump relay signal, CAS power and 12V to the ECU).
    Hmmmm my old S14 definitely had NATS built into the ECU, but it was a '96 model so would that be S14a loom and ECU? I know when I sold the engine the buyer needed the halo and chip from the key to match the ECU. Did the older S14s not have NATS built in to the ECU at all then?

  16. #16
    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    I don't believe so. My ECU has the plug layout like my r and z32 bodies have. The later model ones look very different from what I've seen online

  17. #17
    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    Just wanted to say a big thankyou to everyone who helped out here. Believe it or not I had all my conversion wiring spot on (or so it seems so far!) But guess what....

    Quote Originally Posted by norfy View Post
    make sure you have a nice fat healthy earth from inlet to chassis
    What a ****ing moron I am... Spent a few days reading diagrams and learning about electrics. Learnt some new skills. Even learnt to solder having never done it before... Got a conversion loom right first time using OEM diagrams and then spent 2 weeks piss farting about because I didn't put on the factory earth strap!!!!

    What a total tool I did feel lol I was too busy looking for the complex solution I forgot the basics!

    My only issue now is that The clock pack fuse keeps blowing as soon as I turn the switch (but only when my F4 plug is plugged in) so my guess is that I've taken a live I shouldnt have and it's trying to pull too many amps.

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    Guest norfy's Avatar
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    awesome news. sometimes its the simplest things that catch us out.


    from f4 there will only be three wires that go to the clocks, the temp gauge wire, the tacho, and the vss so check or disconnect those.

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    Guest Adam-Murse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norfy View Post
    awesome news. sometimes its the simplest things that catch us out.


    from f4 there will only be three wires that go to the clocks, the temp gauge wire, the tacho, and the vss so check or disconnect those.
    Going to have another look. Trying to get it all working like factory and then I'm going to start my bay tuck. Your a gent dude. I see why you do wiring like. it's addicitve. Like a puzzel you get to enjoy once you've worked it out... assuming you haven't blown your own brains out in the frustrating process lol

    as a side note... do you have any tips on tools for re-pinning?

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