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Thread: WOT No EU Referendum Thread?

  1. #41
    Guest Zornyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazoobe View Post
    It could be argued that is a good thing as at the moment the house prices are higher than ridiculous. Try searching Zoopla in the SE9 area for houses (the ones you'll find below £350k are all on dodgy estates), I don't consider myself to be a low earner any more but I still can't afford a house around here so am stuck living in a flat instead. If I moved further out to be able to get a cheaper house, I'm looking at an increase in monthly costs of around £1,000 due to increased train fares and childcare.



    Around here they are going up 20-30% a year anyway.
    I bought my flat for £250k in March last year, another in far worse condition has just sold for £320k. Based on that price, I couldn't even buy this place any more as my income has only risen by about 2%.

    house prices in themselves are just a pisstake now, a work colleague sold her house recently, a really bad condition (not been touched in 20 years) house, average garden, 3 small bedrooms, tiny kitchen and lounge, on a road that had 20 break ins last year alone next to the a12 (but with no access to it so all the noise) in brentwood.

    cost? 450k....****ing joke if you ask me.

  2. #42
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auz200sx View Post
    You sure about the visa have a friend here Aussie who managed to get a German passport from a distant relative for no other reason but to live and work in the UK. No visa required non EU member shes Australian with an Australian passport also.
    Then thats pretty much the same as me coming to live and work in Australia because my Granddad was half Australian, this is pretty much the case with every country ever. Or even better, if youre really good at Rugby .........
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  3. #43
    Guest Si's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    Who did you vote for in the House of Lords then?

    Ive said much on this elsewhere, but as the owner of a business that trades extensively with the EU and beyond Ive seen the benefits of EU membership time and again - true, most are economic but most of your life is governed by economics.

    To deal with a few favourite "out" arguments:

    Control of our borders: At the moment we do control our borders, any non EU immigrant needs a VISA to come and work here and its generally agreed that EU immigration is a net benefit for the UK, not to mention us being able to go do business there. Leaving will not stop illegal immigration, the clue is in the name.

    Finance: There is absolutely no doubt that out of the EU the UK will be a much smaller financial force globally speaking. We will also still have to contribute in order to trade (see Norways contribution) and would have vast amounts of administration to do setting up and policing new trade agreements.

    Britain as a Great Nation once again: Impossible. People harking back to Churchill and even before forget that we are now in a global economy where we couldnt hope to compete with India, China and South America in production - in 1945 youd be lucky to find a telephone in most of these places, they can now sell direct to my front door. Its not a comparable situation at all.

    Law: What was the last law imposed on us by the EU you really didnt agree with? And yet no-one disagrees with the employment and environmental legislation?

    Security: Anyone that doesnt think that the EU pooling their intelligence against terrorism (which lets be fair, we see bugger all of) is off their head.

    I hate to say it but I dont actually think 90% of the population have enough knowledge to make an informed decision, I get terrified by some of the utter shyte people are basing a leave decision on (mainly hatred of Cameron and "immigration", see above) ............ Richard Dawkins says:

    “It is much too difficult and detailed to be left to voters who know no economics and tend to say things like, ‘Well I was going to vote Leave but I can’t stand Boris Johnson’s hair so I’m going to vote Remain.’ Or, ‘I was going to vote Remain but Cameron needs punishing so I’m going to vote Leave.’ "
    I know my lefty ideals don't agree with a lot of your posts Doc, but that one of the best posts on this matter I've read anywhere.
    David Mitchell write a great Guardian column to the same effect: we elect people with the knowledge of these affairs to make important decisions for us. I know where my vote lies, but I'm not confident that I know enough about the matter for it to be fully Informed.
    Which makes it pretty dangerous tbh.

    Most people's votes don't seem to be based on rational thought and research: they're based on prejudice, Ill informed myths, and gut feelings. And that's no basis for such a vital decision.
    Last edited by Si; 01-06-2016 at 19:13.

  4. #44
    Guest auz200sx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    Then thats pretty much the same as me coming to live and work in Australia because my Granddad was half Australian, this is pretty much the case with every country ever. Or even better, if youre really good at Rugby .........
    If you dont have the passport your need the visa regardless of weather your grandad was half Australian. I think you might have missed my point.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by auz200sx View Post
    All i no is she battled like **** to get the passport for like 4 years was eventually allowed it and used it to gain access to the UK
    I know 3 Serbs who did the same on Hungarian passports.

  6. #46
    aka Droolingorc Ghazoobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    It seems to me like Britain are in the best possible position in the EU right now. You currently get all of the benefits of being a member, i.e. import/export, travel etc, but you aren't stuck with the worst part, i.e. the Euro currency. It's a win-win situation as far as I see it.
    Shows how long it is since I travelled to an EU country... went to Portugal last week and was annoyed to find that you can't buy Duty Free when travelling within the EU, this is the best reason I've found so far for leaving
    We went with a couple of Australians and they got through border control faster than we did, because the EU passports queue was gigantic and there was barely anyone else in the other countries queue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clint View Post
    It only recently that most of England were whinging about Scotland wanting to be independent and making very similar arguments for them to stay in the UK as the REMAIN campaign is making now.
    Good point, hadn't thought of that!

    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    I hate to say it but I dont actually think 90% of the population have enough knowledge to make an informed decision, I get terrified by some of the utter shyte people are basing a leave decision on (mainly hatred of Cameron and "immigration", see above) ............ Richard Dawkins says:

    “It is much too difficult and detailed to be left to voters who know no economics and tend to say things like, ‘Well I was going to vote Leave but I can’t stand Boris Johnson’s hair so I’m going to vote Remain.’ Or, ‘I was going to vote Remain but Cameron needs punishing so I’m going to vote Leave.’ "
    I've been trying to learn enough about it to be able to make an informed decision, tempted to give up and just not bother voting, but then there is the risk that the wrong side wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zornyan View Post
    house prices in themselves are just a pisstake now, a work colleague sold her house recently, a really bad condition (not been touched in 20 years) house, average garden, 3 small bedrooms, tiny kitchen and lounge, on a road that had 20 break ins last year alone next to the a12 (but with no access to it so all the noise) in brentwood.

    cost? 450k....****ing joke if you ask me.
    Yeah all the houses I find for sale that I could potentially afford are like that. At least my flat is really quiet and on a well kept estate with a golf course behind us and in a decent area, however I have to get out of my car and push it into the garage/pull it out when I want to use it and I've no space for tools or spare parts etc and there is no parking left on the road by 5pm each day as we've 140 x 3 bed flats and approx. 110 parking spaces.

    Another flat here just went up for sale yesterday, at £360k
    Last edited by Ghazoobe; 02-06-2016 at 08:37.
    bovvered?

  7. #47
    Member GrahamB's Avatar
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    The housing crisis is simply down to supply and demand. The original right to buy was an excellent idea, at the time, but what they then didn't do was build more houses to replace the ones they sold off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zornyan
    house prices in themselves are just a pisstake now, a work colleague sold her house recently, a really bad condition (not been touched in 20 years) house, average garden, 3 small bedrooms, tiny kitchen and lounge, on a road that had 20 break ins last year alone next to the a12 (but with no access to it so all the noise) in brentwood.

    cost? 450k....****ing joke if you ask me.
    The key there being "Brentwood", it's always been a spectacularly expensive place to live, I've just moved from Billericay to Wickford as the same size house in Billericay would have cost us at least £200,000 more.

    In or out will do sweet FA to house prices.
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  8. #48
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
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    Stupid prices, glad i dont live down south.

  9. #49
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    Ill be voting to stay in, much to the annoyance of my colleagues. I personally dont think leaving will actually solve any of the major issues the country faces. We may gain a little by not paying the EU "fee's" but we loose out big time generally economically.

  10. #50
    Guest Zornyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    Stupid prices, glad i dont live down south.
    honestly? me and my other half have considered moving up north, we have friends up there and it's a joke the difference in price.

  11. #51
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zornyan View Post
    honestly? me and my other half have considered moving up north, we have friends up there and it's a joke the difference in price.
    The difference in wages are no where near as much as is needed for the difference in house prices, the cost of living dawn sawf is just hideous.. plus you get loads of congestion, too many people, nasty pollution from all those muppets and there 2ltr diesels who think they are saving the world and some other guff i cant be bothered to research.
    Where as up here we have great roads, great air, low populations, not a lot of traffic and lovely scenery - if you go to wales you can get all that and sheep as well.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazoobe View Post
    Shows how long it is since I travelled to an EU country... went to Portugal last week and was annoyed to find that you can't buy Duty Free when travelling within the EU, this is the best reason I've found so far for leaving
    But you can buy as much as you like VAT and local duty paid.
    Mate goes to Malta on Ryanair, less than £30 each way, hotel £20/night. Buys King Edward cigars to fill a carry on suitcase, about 1/4 the price they are over here. Effectively pays for his holiday.
    If we leave EU, any excess over (quite mean) duty free limits brought in from Europe would be taxed at full UK duty and VAT rate.

  13. #53
    Guest Zornyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    The difference in wages are no where near as much as is needed for the difference in house prices, the cost of living dawn sawf is just hideous.. plus you get loads of congestion, too many people, nasty pollution from all those muppets and there 2ltr diesels who think they are saving the world and some other guff i cant be bothered to research.
    Where as up here we have great roads, great air, low populations, not a lot of traffic and lovely scenery - if you go to wales you can get all that and sheep as well.

    yeah sounds like it, my equiliviant job would lose about 1 quid an hour, for a 3 bed house here being 450k a year, that would drop dramatically down by half.

    I don't think 1 quid an hour equates to the huge price difference in cost of living.

    funny point you make about pollution and air tho, spent a week in lanzarote last year, that's the first time in 15 years I haven't had permeates cold like symptoms, coughing and a blocked nose.

    no allergies, 5 different scans and tests from my doctors over the years, absolutely nothing wrong with me, except I've had a cold like symptoms for over a decade.

    never happens when I've been to places like Cornwall etc either.

  14. #54
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    I know where my vote lies, but I'm not confident that I know enough about the matter for it to be fully Informed.
    Which makes it pretty dangerous tbh.
    Fair play for admitting it, but the more I read the more I think its going to be people with no idea who swing it.

    When youre having people decide on the basis of an incorrect Churchill misquote from 80 years ago, or "we used to have an empire, we can again" without realising its really feasible to go round the 3rd world shooting people and stealing their resources any more its a bit worrying.
    I was told yesterday that economics was "bollocks" and that my friend with no experience of the EU other than a couple of weeks in Spain every year knew more than I do after trading into it for the last 16 years, maybe we do deserve to be out after all?
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  15. #55
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    I'm prepared to be shot down but....

    I'm out and I'm voting that way because of what possible issues the EU could throw at us. I'm worried about Turkey joining, the failing economies/political turmoil that Greece, Spain and Italy seem to be in and propping them up isn't sorting it out, it's just putting a plaster on a GSW.

    You still have decisions that effect the EU being made by unelected people which I think is not right. Having set trade agreements that suit as many countries as are in the EU currently is simply mad! We need to convert to the EURO to make them work and do people want to loose that? What is tree he worlds strongest currency?

    Loosing out common law judicial system as well will be a massive blow as well!

    I can't see any benefits being in the EU much longer. It can't last with how it's been run and we can't make any influence as shown by the negotiations taken place as to what goes on.

    Being 25 and in a well payed job(just changing industry) and loving daaan sarfff is not a lot of fun when you live at home. Every house/flat is over priced crap. I think for myself in the area I'm in, leaving the EU just makes too much sense not to do it. Our trade has dropped with EU states and the fact the whole trade agreement we signed up for is based off the fact global trade was more difficult. It's much much easier with mass shipping and that amazing thing called the internet.

    If we do vote to stay in, fair enough but I feel itd wrong that we are being fed so much rubbish and the media is blocking out all of the issues going on across the EU with the current migrant crisis

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    Fair play for admitting it, but the more I read the more I think its going to be people with no idea who swing it.
    I agree with you here, social media is the best way to spot the really stupid people. Its scary the arguments people are basing their vote to leave on.

    My vote is to stay in, although i wouldn't even call myself well informed on the ins and outs.

  17. #57
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackm View Post
    You still have decisions that effect the EU being made by unelected people which I think is not right.
    Who did you vote for in the last House of Lords elections?

    Sorry to single you out but this is only 1 of about 5 inaccuracies in your comment, where are you getting your information?
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  18. #58
    Guest Zornyan's Avatar
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    my biggest problem with this whole thing, is no one side has given a decent discussion, it's a massive shit slinging competition.

    the whole leave side has been throwing around ridiculous numbers, one team of people in St Albans a few weeks ago (for lolz I asked) said if we left the EU we would get 104 new hospitals every year

    they had no idea how they would be staffed, or where they would go, or why we need them, but apparently 104 buildings a year called hosptials, is a massive positive that means we should leave.

    on the flip side, I've seen people arguing if we leave the EU all the banks will leave, the country will be declared bankrupt and we will self destruct. another logical argument

  19. #59
    Member arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazoobe View Post
    It could be argued that is a good thing as at the moment the house prices are higher than ridiculous.
    No, house prices plummeting are a monumentally bad thing, not good. A natural oversupply / demand reduction would be welcomed but the last thing you want is house prices to bottom out because of economic crisis.

    What happens in that situation is that people that have bought a house end up losing it, and people that have been waiting to get on the ladder can't arrange the mortgages - so all that happens in the merry-go-round that the ensues is Property Investors get some pretty awesome buy to let stock on the cheap.
    See fig 3.4 and 3.7:
    https://www.pwc.co.uk/assets/pdf/uke...-july-2015.pdf
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  20. #60
    Member arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zornyan View Post
    my biggest problem with this whole thing, is no one side has given a decent discussion, it's a massive shit slinging competition.
    Welcome to modern politics.

    BoJo was giving a speech the other day and used the example that the EU was bad because they influence our acceptance of the colour, length and contour of bananas. G...T....F


    As I've said all along really, referendums are a terrible idea. We've already seen in General Elections the either staunch political allegiance to a party a voter has always voted for regardless of agreeing with their policies just because that's who their dad always voted for; or even worse the switching sides voters who vote for Nick Clegg because a much nicer guy than that Mr Cameron, as if voting for the country's leader is like a round of Britain's Got Talent.

    I honestly think we're all ****ed. Thank **** for people like Doc that still make sense - even after all that weed
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