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Thread: WOT No EU Referendum Thread?

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    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    WOT No EU Referendum Thread?

    I am saddened that one of the most political decisions we will have to make in our lifetime has been given a campaign as bad as we have

    With the Remain camp running such a negative campaign that it is likely to push voters to vote leave and then the Brexit camp ,who in the words of their floppy haired symbolic leader are spouting so much piffle along with an anti EU media owned and controlled by a bunch of foreigners... what chance has this country got to make the right decision?

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    None. Most including myself have very little clue what's going on.
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    no one seems to be able to put a valid case forward, all I've seen so far is just a bunch of slime bags who cant put a valid case together instead they seem to have resorted to playground propaganda tactics and hearsay.

    the way I see it is that its only a poll, they don't actually have to honour it if we all vote to get out.

    im going to vote out,even if we do leave I cant see them ploughing extra money into the NHS.
    Instead of giving loads of money away to prop up poor EU countries we will just give more to India etc..
    Everything that can be blamed on leaving will be for the next 100 years.
    I would rather form our own trade agreements with china/ india etc.. under our terms than those of the EU committee. 99% of the sh!t on ebay comes from china

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    Have you seen how small the percentage of the countries outgoing so actually goes to the eu?
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    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    I am voting to remain.

    Here are my reasons why. I have researched this myself, not just listened to what the politicians have been spouting.

    Food prices WILL increase - leaving the EU - Farmers will lose the subsidies they enjoy through the Common Agriculture Policy. Anyone who believes that any UK Government will continue to subsidise the UK Farming industry at current levels is fooling themselves. Prices will have to rise, otherwise those farms will go out of business and we would have to import even more than we do now. Unfortunately even the farmers believe that the subsidies will continue

    Over half our exports go to Europe. The European Union is based on the idea to protect its member states. This includes the CAP. The CAP is one of the major reasons African and Asian farming cannot compete with EU farming. To be able to compete on a level playing field, we would have to do what Norway does and join the European Economic Area, or establish a similar trade deal. But that costs money. Currently the UK pays the EU around 110 per capita in contributions to the EU. Norway pays 89 per capita. Norway has to abide by the same trade rules that we do. This includes the shape of Bananas etc, but most importantly the 4 freedoms required to join the EEA. Free movement of Goods, Services, People and Capital. This is a fundamental requirement to have access to the single market. So for us to continue trading with Europe in a means that provides "Fair Competition" to our exporters, we would have to give up the fundamental reason the Brexit camp want us to get out.

    It is not that I believe in the Doom and Gloom spouted by the Remain campaign, but the fact that the European Market is vital for our country's well being and to be able to compete fairly, we would still have to abide by the same rules, but only in this case have absolutely no influence over any of the rules whatsoever.

    So this basically states I don't believe either of the propaganda being spouted by either camp - or more to the point believe and understand that both sides are blatantly lying to the British people.

    Edit: In summary. Leaving the EU would not bring us back any of the rules the Brexit camp are basing their argument on. Instead we lose any influence on those laws - It just seems a lose lose situation to me
    Last edited by Asht_200; 27-05-2016 at 21:43.

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    Guest auz200sx's Avatar
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    Well im going to piss you off im voting out and im not even in the country. We dont need to be in the EU to trade in it other countries im sure around the world do it perfectly fine without the needless bollox that comes with it.

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    Easy to vote out when you're out the country and don't need to deal with the consequences
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    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auz200sx View Post
    Well im going to piss you off im voting out and im not even in the country. We dont need to be in the EU to trade in it other countries im sure around the world do it perfectly fine without the needless bollox that comes with it.
    Your Dairy farmers may disagree with how EU policies have affected you

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    Can't tell the difference cleanhands's Avatar
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    Out

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    Guest ben8000's Avatar
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    In without a shadow of doubt. We are stronger together.

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    Guest auz200sx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chriscooke View Post
    Easy to vote out when you're out the country and don't need to deal with the consequences
    Sure is

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    Guest auz200sx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chriscooke View Post
    Easy to vote out when you're out the country and don't need to deal with the consequences
    ......
    Last edited by auz200sx; 28-05-2016 at 12:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    Your Dairy farmers may disagree with how EU policies have affected you
    I don't think they care atm tbh with the half a billion $ sub they have just announced.

    This makes an interesting read

    "Already 60 per cent of our trade is with countries outside the EU, and British farmers will become more competitive in their dealings with them if they are no longer tied down by EU red tape. But from the farmers’ perspective, these are secondary issues. What matters more to them in the short term is being able to stay in business, and they won’t be able to do that without subsidies. This is where Westminster will have to step in, if it is serious about food security.

    The weird thing is, it would make financial sense. Just to continue paying farmers the same subsidy as they are getting now would cost the British taxpayer half as much, because, at present, we pay 6 billion a year into the CAP, but our farmers get only 3 billion back. British farmers are effectively subsidising their competitors: the French, by far the biggest beneficiary of the CAP, receive three times as much"

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    Does anyone actually have any hard facts on the benefit of leaving? I know supposedly it will save a load of money but where will that money go? Will it just go to backhanded deals that the general public will never see?

    I like the idea of doing our own thing and having more money for ourselves but I really can't see that happening either way

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    I own a small company and tbh i am a bit worried of the out come i dont know how this will effect it i have looked into this and can see good and bad ideas in both sides and still feel 50/50 maybe if its not broke dont fix it dont know and it troubles me????

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    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerboywill View Post
    Does anyone actually have any hard facts on the benefit of leaving? I know supposedly it will save a load of money but where will that money go? Will it just go to backhanded deals that the general public will never see?

    I like the idea of doing our own thing and having more money for ourselves but I really can't see that happening either way
    There is no hard evidence that we will save any money or that we won't have to deal with free movement rules in some form or another. Sure, there are plenty of other countries who trade with the EU, but most of those in the EEC either still have to pay a fee to the EU and/or have free movement, or have limitations on what they can provide to it. The obvious point to note is - why would the EU want to throw away a source of income because a country has left? We have no established trade negotiators within the government, and as evidenced by the pretty appalling negotiating tactics employed by Cameron and his "deal", there are very people in the government who are worth a damn at negotiating either. They have no reason what-so-ever to give us "what we want" with nothing to benefit them.

    The "sovereignty" argument is amusing though. How is it gaining back control if we still have to make things to EU standards to export to them if we give up our right to have any vote on what those standards are? Seems like the total opposite of gaining back sovereignty to me.

    I have a feeling it will be a comfortable win for Remain in the end - Leave make a whole load of noise about this that and the other but a lot of it has been discredited by independents along they way. Although it would be very hard to say that Remain have covered themselves in glory along the way...

    I'll be voting in, I can't see any kind of a case for leaving on any level. Having said that, why are we making ourselves out to be hard done by and trying to get a deal for "ourselves"? I think rather than putting ourselves out and pulling away we should be trying to lead improvements within Europe. Instead we are one of the least influential countries in the Union. Clearly our elected representatives would rather make long blustering speeches about how terrible the "European Project" has been overlooking all of the good it has brought to the majority of countries involved rather than promote improvement.
    Last edited by zeppelin101; 29-05-2016 at 21:57.

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    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
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    I have come off the fence and decided out is best, mainly because
    A: Cameron will have to go if he looses this.
    B: I hate europe
    C: Boris as PM would be much more likely down the line, and Boris as PM and the possibility of Trumpy as POTUS makes the world an interesting place again.

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    NW Area Rep AP2's Avatar
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    I'm an out, even if it ends up costing me more money, just the thought of being governed by bureaucrats that we haven't elected or have the possibility of changing with a democratic vote is enough for me, not to mention the NHS breaches the EU rules on fair trade and and they want it gone, I have no problem letting people come to this country as long as they are working or visiting and vice versa people from this country going to Europe. I doubt that the rest of Europe would want to lose our trade as they import an awful lot to us the same as we export to them. No problem dealing with Europe as trading partners etc but we do not need to be in bed with them. just my two pence worth! Or in the case of 5 years or so 2 Euros

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    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AP2 View Post
    I'm an out, even if it ends up costing me more money, just the thought of being governed by bureaucrats that we haven't elected or have the possibility of changing with a democratic vote is enough for me.
    The European parliament is a body elected by the people of each member state with final say over all legislation...

    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    C: Boris as PM would be much more likely down the line, and Boris as PM and the possibility of Trumpy as POTUS makes the world an interesting place again.
    Interestingly of all the politicians involved in all sides of the debate, BoJo's "standing" with the public has dropped the most in opinion polls. Not hard to see why, he can say a lot of words but a lot of it has been garbage dressed up with a clown bow tie.

    The above happening is a genuine nightmare.
    Last edited by zeppelin101; 31-05-2016 at 06:18.

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    Guest Tanuki's Avatar
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    As has been stated above there is a lot of bs floating around on both sides and it's hard for anyone to know what the actual consequences will be. The question we might ask ourselves is what will benefit me, my job, my life? Not the country or some git politician or some inflated idea of nationality. And that is to remain, simple.
    Last edited by Tanuki; 31-05-2016 at 06:54.

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