I agree, my opinion is that the last Tory government had no intention on delivering Brexit, Treason May is a remainer, she allowed the unelected Michelle Barnier to invent a question in the back stop that both he and she knew there was no answer to.
The problem the Tories have is that the Tory members and voters realised this fact and showed their dissatisfaction at the european elections earlier on in the year.
The Tories now know if they do not deliver on Brexit their future as a political party could be over, these are dangerous times we are living in, if the Tories fail and with the Liebour party being so inept and communist this will leave a political vacuum that will be filled by the far right, every time these remoaning traitors invent a law or conspire to commit unprecedented manoeuvres in order to stop Brexit it gives the far right ammunition.
Last edited by LeonatLarge; 30-09-2019 at 18:33.
No I called you a twat, Perhaps you should have learned to read and then understood what Brexit really meant
The Boris Bus promised an extra 300 million a week and due to the cock up Teresa May made making that prick David Davis the Brexit secretary and couldn't negotiate his way out of anything, we are left with the mess that is now occuring.
I am not Pie Man's friend (Sorry Piman2k, just had to make a point at "Fat Leona")
Last edited by sx rider; 01-10-2019 at 07:14.
Yes the current polls show both main partys way down and various others on the rise, although it's got to be said the 2017 election saw the highest number of votes for Conservative/Labour for a very long time, so they have a healthy start.
The Torys in particular took an absolute beating at the recent EU elections, lost 15 of their 19 seats.
Turnout was shocking though, 37%.
I agree, this issue has utterly torn the party apart and has really hit their reputation with the voting public.
The only saving grace is that Labour are so completely inept that they've not managed to seize the opportunity and completely bury them.
Last edited by R3K1355; 01-10-2019 at 09:31.
The Narcissism is strong with this one.
If you love my avatar so much, feel free to copy it and use it yourself. FYI blood is red. I know being stuck in a metal asylum you probably don't have access to many girls so I'll forgive your ignorance around tampons and what they are for this time![]()
Agreed, The problem Liebour has is that the statistics suggest that 60% - 66% of Liebour constituances voted leave, but the majority of Liebour party members and their MP's are staunch remainers as they live in the metropolitan bubble, with Corbyn having the mindset of a protester rather than a leader he has enabled the two above groups to dictate Liebour party policy.
I dont believe we can take anything from the 2017 general election results regarding the imminent general election, the Tories have tried to circumvent Brexit up until very recently, and Liebour have said they would go to the EU, get a deal, and then campaign against it, and then have a second referendum with the deal they have campaigned against and remain on the ballot paper.![]()
This means they have lied to the millions of people who voted for them in the last general election when they said they would honour the result of the 2016 referendum, if you can remember going back on general election promises didn't do the un-Liberal un-Democrats any good they literally got annihilated at the following general election.
As I have said already this could let the likes of the Brexit party in, and the far right, especially in the north, in my opinion the imminent general election could very well see an end to the two party system.
Last edited by LeonatLarge; 01-10-2019 at 14:33.
I'm going to be sensible, but it is spelled Labour.
To be fair to Corbyn, as Leader of the Opposition, his party is there to oppose the Governments ideology... So he is in a no win situation. He is a staunch europhile, but he has to oppose what the government is doing. That is Westminster politics for you.
I'm not sure your argument about ending the 2 party system can hold true, but with a big YET as the 2 have held power for so long. Remember the Labour Party was founded in 1900, so in relative terms is still quite a young party. In years to come maybe it will be different. Also we don't vote for a Prime Minister, we vote for an MP to represent us and people generally don't like change, so continue to vote for what they are most familiar with. When Tony Blair was elected for the first time, I actually voted for the Labour Party constituent, but since my constituency mainly voted conservative, my vote didn't count.
It could be worse. In the US, the Electors who sit in the Electoral College aren't by law required to agree with their state's popular vote
I'm not sure the Tories want to oppose Brexit, but just want one that can also appease the other 48 percent who voted remain. But at the end of the day, you can't please everyone. I think they have found it far more difficult to negotiate, especially with a pleb like David Davis. We could have come out with some sort of trade deal, but it never happened. I also understand why some people hate the EU. In Australia, the Beef and Dairy cattle market has been decimated in Australia due to EU Quotas. Remember the EU is the biggest trading block
I found Boris Johnson's announcement today about what he wants for Northern Ireland to be quite productive. Agriculture and Sanitation in Northern Ireland could remain under EU Regulations, meaning no border, but the people of Northern Ireland will remain British under British law. I don't know the details, but it could work.
Boris has an uphill struggle no matter how good his proposals are, he threw away his majority in Parliament so it's going to be a real battle to secure enough votes to pass a deal.
It's also worth remembering these are still just proposals, with less than a month to go we have nothing certain agreed.
I've a feeling Labour will block regardless, simply to humiliate the government.
Concerns for the good of the people seem to have gone out the window, it's down to political point scoring and basic willy measuring now.
Last edited by R3K1355; 01-10-2019 at 16:22.
There's not enough time left to agree a deal with the EU, take it back to parliament, have it thoroughly understood, debated, possibly changed, back through the EU and agreed by the end of October. Not if 3+ years has so far gotten us to sweet F.A.
The Brexit shambles (to not pick a side) has also been the most destructive public debate in my living memory. Lies, name calling, mockery, newly-invented pejoratives practically making any sensible debate break down into playground name calling (this thread being no exception).
Now we have BoJo (our 3rd PM of this crisis) seemingly ready to break the law, passed by our elected government, claiming it champions democracy. What a mess.
Totally agree, it just goes to show that when the country is split like this then you will get nowhere.
No matter what happens with Brexit the greatest concern for me is what has happened to politics and acceptable behaviour. We are left with this no matter what the outcome.
The only way i see out of this is that Leavers deliver on the deal they promised in the referendum, if they get reasonably close leave on it, if they can't get close then put the best deal they can manage (but that is different to what they promised) back to a new referendum vs remain. I hate the idea of a 2nd referendum but when a lie was promised that is not deliverable I can't see how you progress from that point.
I can see two things happening, either Boris splits the UK customs union to get a deal which is possible, or no deal looks likely at which point the 21 ousted Tories back a no confidence vote, we get a temp government and a GE.
Hibernation has never looked so tempting!!
2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
2010 - on : 2007 RX8 PZ
1998 - 2004 : 1991 S13
Information has dribbled out over the last few days, possibility of NI staying aligned with the EU on some matters.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the deal proposed is the same deal from Theresa May with this small change to the backstop? Everything else is as it was?