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Thread: WOT No EU Referendum Thread?

  1. #681
    Member sx rider's Avatar
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    Oh god here is the flat earther again! Refuse to read anything written by a delusional

  2. #682
    Member R3K1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    The term gammon is a racist slur used to describe someone who is a fare skinned middle aged over weight and Caucasian
    Sorry mate it just isn't. Despite the efforts of alt-right to attempt to categorise it as racist it's just not.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    I was referred to as Leona by Doc**** when my name is Leon so there we have it, one insult that is racist and one insult that is sexist
    That wasn't a sexist comment either.

    I thought snowflakes were supposed to be the ones easily offended, seems like anything will set you off?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    I have made no claims
    but you did, I even quoted you on it?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    if you like I can back this up.
    I already showed you the leaflet sent by the government that proved your claim was wrong, do you need the link again?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    (Ad hominem)

    Why do you keep including this in brackets? You understand what it means right?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    remoaning snowflakes
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    (Ad hominem)
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Is there any chance you or your boyfriends
    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    (Ad hominem)
    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    like the claims Leona is making
    You sexist pig Doc
    Last edited by R3K1355; 19-09-2019 at 09:04.

  3. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Quite. When people say to me snowflake, remoaner, democracy or Lisbon treaty you know they’re going to be fun.

    LeonatLarge, docwra pretty neatly wrapped up your housing analogy. The default position when selling your house and not getting a good deal is to simply not move (I.e. not leave). Brexit is selling your house, but committing to moving out whether or not you get a good price and telling your buyer that they MUST give you a good price because otherwise you’re going to be homeless. It makes no sense.

    You now sound like every Facebook Brexiteer I’ve come across, recycling sound bites that everyone has heard before.

    I still find it amazing that you and others claim having more votes on more issues is undemocratic. Effectively saying more voting equates to less democracy.
    No that is incorrect, Brexit is not selling your house, I used the house analogy to illustrate how ridiculous negotiating without NO DEAL on the table is,
    We had a democratic vote in 2016 and the result was that the people of Great Britan voted to leave the E.U.
    Not selling your house and not moving is NO DEAL.
    Selling your house for any price offered because the option of no deal has been removed is what parliament have done to the government this is why those MP's lost the whip, they have conspired with the opposition and a foreign nation to deliberately undermine the goverment which could have massive financial implications for our nation.

    It seems you have still not been able to grasp the concept of democracy.

    In a democracy the vote must be enacted before another vote which would reverse the first vote can take place.

    That is why it is undemocratic.

    Imagine a general election where we had a second vote because 48 % of people were not happy with the result this would be undemocratic because there will always be people who are not happy with the result and so we would be voting indefinitely with nothing being enacted, we can't just change the definition and rules of our democracy because the losing side of this single referendum are unhappy with the result.

    You have also mentioned that I want to leave the EU and how I think leaving the EU will improve my life, again this illustrates your lack of understanding on how democracy works.

    It is irrelevant how I voted; the leave vote WON, it is also irrelevant on how and if the UK leaving the EU affects my prosperity, as the leave vote WON, our democracy sets an example to the world and must remain supreme.

    One thing I will say is that the uncertainty of delaying and frustrating Brexit is already having a massive effect on our economy as company's will not invest if they do not know what the rules will be in the near future.

  4. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    Sorry mate it just isn't. Despite the efforts of alt-right to attempt to categorise it as racist it's just not.



    That wasn't a sexist comment either.

    I thought snowflakes were supposed to be the ones easily offended, seems like anything will set you off?



    but you did, I even quoted you on it?



    I already showed you the leaflet sent by the government that proved your claim was wrong, do you need the link again?




    Why do you keep including this in brackets? You understand what it means right?








    You sexist pig Doc
    I have never had that leaflet you linked through my door I have already told you what the leaflet I had through my door said, you obviously know more about my mail than me.

    Gammon is racist.

    The term was originally used by young black kids to describe white people with a red hue, along with bacon and red neck.

    You have still not addressed any of the points I have raised regarding Brexit, as I said earlier all you can do is proceed with your snowflake nonsense because the strength of your argument is very weak.
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 19-09-2019 at 09:34.

  5. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonaLewis
    In a democracy the vote must be enacted before another vote which would reverse the first vote can take place.
    There is NOTHING in the definition of democracy that requires one decision must be carried out before it is reconsidered. Nothing. In fact, giving people the chance to rethink is in my eyes more democracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    No that is incorrect, Brexit is not selling your house, I used the house analogy to illustrate how ridiculous negotiating without NO DEAL on the table is,
    We had a democratic vote in 2016 and the result was that the people of Great Britan voted to leave the E.U.
    Not selling your house and not moving is NO DEAL.
    No, it's not. Not moving house is remaining in your house, is remaining in the EU.

    The UK, rightly or wrongly, is hell bent on delivering brexit i.e. hell bent on moving house. We believe the buyer (the EU) has offered us a low price (a bad deal). We are shouting at the buyer that if the buyer doesn't give us a better deal (house analogy, more money), we will leave our house regardless.

    We want a good deal so we can get a nicer or a better house (like Vote Leave told us we would). And in the real world, if you cannot get a good price for your house, you don't move. It's really as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Imagine a general election where we had a second vote because 48 % of people were not happy with the result this would be undemocratic because there will always be people who are not happy with the result and so we would be voting indefinitely with nothing being enacted, we can't just change the definition and rules of our democracy because the losing side of this single referendum are unhappy with the result.
    But this is the fundamental point that you are continuing to ignore or not acknowledge; a general election is a legally binding process that correctly must be enacted. A referendum is not legally binding. Plus, we CONSTANTLY review that decision and change because we have a general election every 4 years. And in this example we would likely form a coalition government that reflected the views of both sides, not one side with a slim majority speaking for all.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    You have also mentioned that I want to leave the EU and how I think leaving the EU will improve my life, again this illustrates your lack of understanding on how democracy works.

    It is irrelevant how I voted; the leave vote WON, it is also irrelevant on how and if the UK leaving the EU affects my prosperity, as the leave vote WON, our democracy sets an example to the world and must remain supreme.
    I didn't ask you how you voted, but I think I can probably guess how you did. Regarding my actual question, I don't want a sound bite.

    We are asking you to tell us how your life will be better. If you voted for it, you must have had a reason. And it must be something that makes your life better because people don't vote to have worse lives.
    Last edited by piman2k; 19-09-2019 at 09:40.

  6. #686
    Member R3K1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    I have never had that leaflet you linked through my door I have already told you what the leaflet I had through my door said, you obviously know more about my mail than me.
    That was the leaflet sent out by the government, they didn't send one listing the points you have made.
    Either you're lying or you received a leaflet from someone else.

    To quote you specifically you said

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    we all had a leaflet through the door from the government at the time which said:

    Leave meant:

    Out of single Market

    Out of customs union

    Stop free movement

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Gammon is racist.

    The term was originally used by young black kids to describe white people with a red hue, along with bacon and red neck.
    It's not racist.

    I believe it was first coined by Charles Dickens.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    You have still not addressed any of the points I have raised regarding Brexit
    how about this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    If the UK leave with NO DEAL the EU is finished, it will be bankrupt within a few years
    Absolute nonsense with not a single shred of evidence to back it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    we will just end up with a bad deal which wont meet the criteria that was set out in the government leaflet
    The same leaflet that never existed??
    Last edited by R3K1355; 19-09-2019 at 09:50.

  7. #687
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    S

    Why do you keep including this in brackets? (Ad hominem) You understand what it means right?
    This might answer https://elliebweezy.wordpress.com/20...-in-arguments/

  8. #688
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
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    Does anyone want to talk about kittens?

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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    There is NOTHING in the definition of democracy that requires one decision must be carried out before it is reconsidered. Nothing. In fact, giving people the chance to rethink is in my eyes more democracy.

    No, it's not. Not moving house is remaining in your house, is remaining in the EU.

    The UK, rightly or wrongly, is hell bent on delivering brexit i.e. hell bent on moving house. We believe the buyer (the EU) has offered us a low price (a bad deal). We are shouting at the buyer that if the buyer doesn't give us a better deal (house analogy, more money), we will leave our house regardless.

    We want a good deal so we can get a nicer or a better house (like Vote Leave told us we would). And in the real world, if you cannot get a good price for your house, you don't move. It's really as simple as that.

    But this is the fundamental point that you are continuing to ignore or not acknowledge; a general election is a legally binding process that correctly must be enacted. A referendum is not legally binding. Plus, we CONSTANTLY review that decision and change because we have a general election every 4 years. And in this example we would likely form a coalition government that reflected the views of both sides, not one side with a slim majority speaking for all.

    I didn't ask you how you voted, but I think I can probably guess how you did. Regarding my actual question, I don't want a sound bite.

    We are asking you to tell us how your life will be better. If you voted for it, you must have had a reason. And it must be something that makes your life better because people don't vote to have worse lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    There is NOTHING in the definition of democracy that requires one decision must be carried out before it is reconsidered. Nothing. In fact, giving people the chance to rethink is in my eyes more democracy.

    Ok, so your idea of democracy is to keep voting until you get a result you agree with... very good



    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    The UK, rightly or wrongly, is hell bent on delivering brexit i.e. hell bent on moving house. We believe the buyer (the EU) has offered us a low price (a bad deal). We are shouting at the buyer that if the buyer doesn't give us a better deal (house analogy, more money), we will leave our house regardless.

    No, the UK had a democratic vote in 2016 and we voted to leave the EU.



    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    We want a good deal so we can get a nicer or a better house (like Vote Leave told us we would). And in the real world, if you cannot get a good price for your house, you don't move. It's really as simple as that.

    Unfortunately we now can't get a good deal, because NO DEAL has been removed from the negotiations , we will have to leave with NO DEAL and trade on WTO terms, we have not been able to get a deal parliament have found acceptable.



    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    But this is the fundamental point that you are continuing to ignore or not acknowledge; a general election is a legally binding process that correctly must be enacted. A referendum is not legally binding.


    We were told in the 2016 referendum that parliament would honour the result, we where then told again in the 2017 general election that parliament would honour the result of the referendum.



    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    Plus, we CONSTANTLY review that decision and change because we have a general election every 4 years. And in this example we would likely form a coalition government that reflected the views of both sides, not one side with a slim majority speaking for all.


    The polls show that if we have a general election now the Tories would have a majority which is why the opposition have denied the governments request for a general election twice in the last few weeks, the government have said we are leaving the EU on the 31.10.19 the Tory government does not reflect both sides as they have kicked out and will kick out any MP's that dissent.



    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    I didn't ask you how you voted, but I think I can probably guess how you did. Regarding my actual question, I don't want a sound bite.

    We are asking you to tell us how your life will be better. If you voted for it, you must have had a reason. And it must be something that makes your life better because people don't vote to have worse lives.

    I have many abilities unfortunately being able to see into the future is not one of them, I will not be able to tell you how my life will be better when we leave the E.U .

  10. #690
    Member R3K1355's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    The polls show that if we have a general election now the Tories would have a majority which is why the opposition have denied the governments request for a general election twice in the last few weeks
    No, the current polls show a hung Parliament:

    Torys about 33%
    Labour about 24%
    Lib Dems about 20%
    Brexit Party 13%

    of course polling data doesn't translate well into seats in Parliament due to our voting system, UKIP always polled 10-15% but never won a single seat in Parliament.
    SNP is another example, they currently poll about 4%, but are expected to take 30+ seats in Westminster.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    Ok, so your idea of democracy is to keep voting until you get a result you agree with... very good :
    Our own Parliament voted 3 times on the withdrawal deal, so clearly they have no problem voting several times on the same issue.
    In fact there's even talk of a forth vote on May's deal

    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    We were told in the 2016 referendum that parliament would honour the result, we where then told again in the 2017 general election that parliament would honour the result of the referendum.
    We were also promised a deal in the election manifesto, so they need to honour that pledge.
    Last edited by R3K1355; 19-09-2019 at 15:40.

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    Look mate I’m not being funny but you’re being absurd now. You didn’t even give me your take on your housing analogy.

    I have to assume by your emphatic defence of Brexit that you voted for it. But if you can’t tell me how you think it will make your life better, why on earth would you have voted for it?

    I don’t want to leave but I accept that we will. However there is no deal as good as staying in.

  12. #692
    Member sx rider's Avatar
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    Leonatlarge aka flat earther aka troll - don’t engage with him, just ignore!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    That was the leaflet sent out by the government, they didn't send one listing the points you have made.
    Either you're lying or you received a leaflet from someone else.

    To quote you specifically you said






    It's not racist.

    I believe it was first coined by Charles Dickens.



    how about this one:



    Absolute nonsense with not a single shred of evidence to back it up.



    The same leaflet that never existed??

    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    That was the leaflet sent out by the government, they didn't send one listing the points you have made.
    Either you're lying or you received a leaflet from someone else.

    I'm not a liar, it was over three and a half years ago now, I apologise if I have mistaken the leave campaigns leaflet for a government leaflet although there was many members of the government in the leave campaign, with that said the initial point I was making is that the vast majority of leave voters knew what they were voting for, out of the customs union, to stop freedom of movement and to have control of our laws and regulations this was made abundantly clear by the leave campaign.



    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    It's not racist.

    I believe it was first coined by Charles Dickens.


    So you are claiming that Charles Dickens was the first person to use the word gammon as an insult for overweight middle aged white people with a red hue ? That just sounds like more of your snowflake nonsense, do you have any evidence to back this claim up ?



    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    how about this one:



    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    If the UK leave with NO DEAL the EU is finished, it will be bankrupt within a few years


    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    Absolute nonsense with not a single shred of evidence to back it up.


    The latest economic forecasts show the EU to be on the brink of recession Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Cyprus plus many others are struggling financially.

    The EU also suffers massive youth unemployement which doesn't bode well for the future this is illustrated in the graph in the link below:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-eu-countries/

    If we leave with no deal the EU will lose billions of pounds every year, and then on top of that with the trade deficit being in our favour when we both impose our trade tariffs they will lose even more money, Germany will be massively exposed to this as a nation.

    The German people will become fed up with bailing out these financially failing countries and will pull the plug financially as the project will be too much for them to fund, effectively leaving the EU project bankrupt.
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 19-09-2019 at 22:22.

  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    No, the current polls show a hung Parliament:

    Torys about 33%
    Labour about 24%
    Lib Dems about 20%
    Brexit Party 13%

    of course polling data doesn't translate well into seats in Parliament due to our voting system, UKIP always polled 10-15% but never won a single seat in Parliament.
    SNP is another example, they currently poll about 4%, but are expected to take 30+ seats in Westminster.



    Our own Parliament voted 3 times on the withdrawal deal, so clearly they have no problem voting several times on the same issue.
    In fact there's even talk of a forth vote on May's deal



    We were also promised a deal in the election manifesto, so they need to honour that pledge.



    No, The Brexit party will not stand if it will lose Tory seats, no leave voter will vote Liebour or un-liberal un-democrat so the leave vote will be unified in our first past the post system, the remain vote will be split between Liebour and the un-liberal un-democrats and Change and Green and on top of that the main opposition has the none-leader Corbyn.


    There will be a massive Tory majority which is why the opposition have denied the government an immediate general election twice in the last few weeks.




    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    We were also promised a deal in the election manifesto, so they need to honour that pledge.
    Unfortunately that might not be possible, the UK will leave the EU on the 31.10.19 unless we are granted an extension by the EU, the prime minister has said that he would " rather be dead in a ditch " than ask for an extension from the EU.

  15. #695
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
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    Come on, lets just agree to disagree on Europe and start talking about Kittehs

    Kittens for gods sake think of the Kittens

  16. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeonatLarge View Post
    I
    The latest economic forecasts show the EU to be on the brink of recession Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Cyprus plus many others are struggling financially.
    That has nothing to do with the EU. Greece has been in trouble since forever because the greeks just decide to pay taxes when they wanted too. Spain and Italy have always been poor

    You do realise it is not hte Bundesbank that is bailing out countries but the ECB, so the burden is on all the EU. But when our banks failed the burden was on us..... Are you forgetting Austerity?

    You do have a point with the EU losing Billions, but we would too. Just some of the EU countries would rather screw us over at what any cost

  17. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    Come on, lets just agree to disagree on Europe and start talking about Kittehs

    Kittens for gods sake think of the Kittens
    I won't be satisfied until we have had a referendum vote that instructs the government to drown all the kittens in a bucket.

    If people vote against drowning, the government should piss about for ages then put another referendum out saying that people obviously didn't understand the first time that they were talking about using plastic buckets not metal buckets.

    I believe that coming out of the EU will make my life better because I will most likely be living in the UK when the countries in the EU go tits up, because I won't be subjected to laws dreamt up by unelected bodies in the EU and because I won't be lining the nests of the EU bureaucrats (I'm not talking about the MEPs, I'm talking about the bureaucrats that run the EU).

    I like Europeans. I hope they will follow us out of the EU and trade with us as partners.

    One thing no one has mentioned is that there is zero chance of HMRC getting their shit together in time now whether there is a deal or no.
    The Customs Declaration system they have is old and broken and they have been trying to replace it for 5 years without any clear guidance on what the new system has to support. Thats a 100 person, 3 year project that has got to deliver within a few weeks when the biggest decision has still not been made... deal or no deal.

    Their only hope is to get Noel Edmonds in.

  18. #698
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
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    So.. not a ketteh person then
    Ok we can do puppys...

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    If you can sit there and type that a no deal Brexit will cost the EU billions and not recognise that the risk is split across 27 countries, and that we will almost certainly lose out by far more with no one to share that burden with, then you’re off your rocker.

    You still haven't explained why (if you did vote Leave) you would have done so without some belief as to how your life would be better. Which is why I strongly suspect you are trolling like sx_rider says because your posts are very Leave.EU soundbitey.
    Last edited by piman2k; 20-09-2019 at 05:22.

  20. #700
    Member R3K1355's Avatar
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    Junker yesterday said a deal is very close, today he's meeting with the Brexit secretary.
    Most likely this is the old deal negotiated by May with a couple of small changes.

    Starting to look like we're getting that deal after all, will be interesting to see what all the hard Brexit supports say considering they've spent the last 6-9 months complaining that it wasn't good enough.

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