Couldn’t agree more with the FPTP being absolutely shocking. Bad enough with the top parties:
CONS got 13 million votes and 368 seats.
Labour got 10 million votes and 202 seats.
But it really gets messed up with the remainder:
SNP got 1.3 million votes as 48 seats.
Lib Dem’s got 3.9 million votes and 11 seats. How did that work?
Greens got 860,000 votes and 1 seat.
This country needs proportional representation.
Well as the chap above posts, all of those reasons. Plus; I'm a euroeceptic. I don't trust our politicians let alone 27 other countries. The layers of it all just make it all very inefficient, before we get onto the corruption and political self motivation by the steering nations. I believe we are better off out of it. To be in control of our laws, our borders etc etc. A points based systems sounds sensible to me...Originally Posted by piman2k
Nobody can say we will be better or worse off unless they have a crystal ball. I expect there to be challenges in the short term but that's inevitable with change. In the medium/ long term I believe and it is a belief, that we will do better being out of the EU in the long run. But of course there are many, many variables...
For your comment on losing your job as a result of Brexit, I lost my job in the last financial crisis. I didn't blame the deregulation of the financial services or sub prime mortgages. Nobody helped me either. You have to help yourself. If you think there's a chance of that, my advice is start taking steps now to make yourself re-empolyable in the event of.... No job is for life in or out of the EU.
On the will of the people point, If you feel this passionately about it, become an MP and change it. If not, please stop going on about a result 3 plus years ago which seems to have been clarified in the last election. I believe in democracy and we should respect that regardless if you don't agree with the outcomes.
No it doesn’t, because differing parts of the country have different values. Why should the North have more of a day when the majority of the population live in the south and that is where the country’s wealth is. I’m not saying that is right but why? Take British Leyland for example. Largest car company in the world and it was squandered because they couldn’t be bothered to make decent cars and spent most of their time on strike
I agree it needs a better system, but what that is, I don’t know
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why should we have PR? Because of exactly the situation we are in. We have a government in control of over 55% of the House of Commons but it received only 45% of the votes. It has no actual mandate based on people that voted, but the antiquated FPTP system means that they get it anyway.
And in a PR system, everyone’s vote would count. If you didn’t vote for the winning party in your constituency as it stands, then your vote counts for nothing. There’s no runner up, there’s nothing.
So looking at the electorate now, 55% did not vote for the Tories. Yet here they are, in power and untouchable.
RE Immigration: no one gets in or out of the U.K. without a passport. We have the right under our own law and EU law to send anyone back to Europe who can’t self sustain. But we don’t exercise it. Everything about immigration in the campaign is absolutely possible to do already, we just don’t. Yet that’s allowed to be some campaign headline?!?
And Ash, I don’t mean to be funny, but in this case the North DO get more of a say. As near as damn it 50 seats in Scotland are now in the hands of the SNP for 1.3 million votes. It doesn’t work.
Under the current EU laws you don’t need a passport to get in or out if you are travelling from an EU country. I got in from Poland on a driving license.
We don’t exercise our right to kick people out, you are right, but that isn’t the EU fault no matter how much Farage and etc try to say it is. Germany put a cap and we didn’t. You can’t blame the EU for that. You can blame the Labour government and the Labour Home Secretary who if I remember was in it for switching her houses...
The Polish have a right to stay here because they helped out in the Battle of Britain. And the rest of the Europeans contribute to our economy. Remember what scummy UK society said. Picking fruit and veg is immigrant work. British youth scum are just too lazy to work
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m not blaming the EU for us not exercising our rights to restrict movement. I’m blaming the leave campaign for pretending like it wasn’t a thing when it was.
Unless you can get a ferry into the ROI without a passport then I’m not sure there’s anyway into the U.K. without showing a passport already. Could be wrong tho.
Last edited by piman2k; 18-12-2019 at 23:13.
You didn’t need a passport...x to get into the Uk. I’ve done it before
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Isn't there just a trace of irony in the fact that you are unhappy about how much your vote counts in the FPTP system for referenda and uk government yet you want us to be governed by an unelected body called the EU ?
And I've been working in the UK for 42 years already so have a fully paid up stamp for my pension
Last edited by Jonny Wilkinson; 19-12-2019 at 00:02.
Everyone keeps moaning about the EU.... what about the House of Lords?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But we aren’t. We are governed by our Government. We voluntarily sign into the conditions of the EU in order to get the many, vast benefits that have kept our country going and really rather well.
I don’t need sound bites to make you realise that inside the EU, as members, we can set the rules and participate. We have elected MEPs and they form part of the EU system.
I don’t need a sound bite to tell you how few times we have voted against legislation and rules the EU has devised.
Your obsession with ‘unelected this and that’ is cringeworthy. The Council is heads of states who are elected. The commission is recommendations of the council. The president is nominated but then approved by the Parliament.
And yes, as Ash repeatedly points out but people keep ignoring, we have a truly unelected top tier in the Lords that no one seems to be crying about.
Just an edit to add, I still haven’t got any personal benefit or gain reasons for the vote.
Last edited by piman2k; 19-12-2019 at 09:04.
FPTP is flawed in many ways but ultimately it seems to provide a majority government.
Clearly the last few years have shown us that this country needs a majority government to get anything done, our politicians seem completely incapable of meaningful cooperation.
But what’s the point in a majority government if it’s either absolutely marginal or, in this case, unrepresentative of the entire population? If the issue is as divisive as this one, it needs a representative parliament to thrash it out over time and come to an agreement.
Now we simply have one ‘side’ getting its way.
But a majority government is supposed to represent the constituency that elected them
And let’s not forget, the vast majority of people elected UKIP to represent them as MEPs but didn’t realise their policy was not to say anything
The EU referendum was also marginal, 52% v 48% so stop complaining that nearly half of Westminster don’t like the Brexit deal
We don’t have 1 side getting it’s way. And BoJo is living in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks Brexit will be done by Jan 31st
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They aren’t supposed to. The opposition is supposed to oppose the will of the government, that is what opposition means
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You are completely at ends with what majority means.
A majority of constituencies won does not represent a majority of voters will.
That is exactly why FPTP is flawed.
Look at Bury North. 21,660 CON votes. 21,555 Labour votes. 105 majority. Meaning 21,555 people’s votes now count for absolutely nothing. The seat goes to CON and the house moves on. The seat is not binary, yet it is treated as it is.
If it worked, you wouldn’t have 4 million people Countrywide being represented by 11 seats in the Lib Dem’s, and 1.3 million people being represented by 48 seats in the SNP.
The opinion of the country is no less divided than it was before, but just enough tipped the scale. To pretend that this means the country overwhelmingly voted for this government is tantamount to lying.
Can’t be clearer than that.
Last edited by piman2k; 19-12-2019 at 13:14.
haha even moaning about the phrase 'remoaner'
Because it’s derogatory? And we’re trying to keep the discussion polite.
The Tory's slogan was "get Brexit done"
I don't think Liebour had a slogan it was more like " we will have a second referendum with remain light and remain hard on the ballot paper, and then we will campaign against remain light.
The Unliberal Undemocrats slogan was " stop Brexit "
Having a second referendum wasn't very popular because many people believed it was undemocratic.
Mays deal wasn't Brexit it was more like remain light.
Generally politicians say what the public want to hear during an election, its the same old story every time but nothing changes.
I believe the election was a good thing for politics and democracy, a lot of MP's who went against their party and constituents lost their jobs, this in my opinion is the best outcome as MP's should serve the people who elected them.
I am genuinely shocked that so many people think brexit or Tory’s or BJ are good for this country. None of us on this forum as far as I am aware are part of the ruling elite so why on earth do you support this rich get richer ideology? Better red than dead someone mentioned in a post above, wtf?? was said uncle lord of the f*****g manor??
No deal and or brexit is only good for the rich. End of.
The referendum was a stupid idea, to put to that decision in the hands of the public was dumb because 99% of us are NOT ECONOMISTS. This whole situation is absurd. It’s literally the blind leading the blind right now.
There is no democracy, we are misled by a bunch of lying rich Etonians and vote for a 5 year dictatorship.
We had a real chance with Corbin, possibly the first real potential PM who actually gave a f**k and guess what, the corporate owned media twisted things to let BJ that massive gapping prolapsed a*****e into power.
I am sickened by it all. The Tory party are for the ruling elite and don’t care about the real people who pay 20% tax.
Corbyn was going to tax the corporations fairly and correctly. The Tory’s are nothing but the corporations whores who will let them frack, pay no tax and rip us off until we are on our knees. Urg rant over.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
