Page 55 of 70 FirstFirst ... 545535455565765 ... LastLast
Results 1,081 to 1,100 of 1381

Thread: WOT No EU Referendum Thread?

  1. #1081
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    In cloud Cucold land
    Posts
    34,530
    Rides
    0
    Actually we dont really know what the real number of people is that support or dont support brexit.
    I would hazard a guess that more folk voted to repeal brexit than those who did as it seems to be a very emotive subject for those who believe we should stay in Europe.
    Then there is those who sat on the fence like me and those who dont give a toss and there is bound to be a lot of them.

    Of course we will never really know.

  2. #1082
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    12,024
    Rides
    0
    The Torys won by a landslide and they promised to deliver Brexit, so you've gotta assume the majority support it in some way.

    I just hope they don't come to regret that decision in a few years, far too late then and zero sympathy for people like that.

  3. #1083
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    ashflix.com
    Posts
    22,060
    Rides
    0
    It wasn't a landslide, they got a majority of 80 ish

    Now lets get the real figures for Brexit

    37.5% of Eligible Voters voted leave
    34.7% of Eligible Voters voted remain

    28% knew it wouldn't make much of a difference which way they voted....

    Hardly a majority vote.

    And just show how Brexit has affected the average household.... and this is from the National Institute of Social and Economic Research and Office of National Statistics (What the Tory Government base their research on)



    It is a bit more scientific than your complete misunderstaing between GPS and GSM and knowing what a Heliosphere is

  4. #1084
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    19,732
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by R3K1355 View Post
    The Torys won by a landslide and they promised to deliver Brexit, so you've gotta assume the majority support it in some way.
    I was going to say, they got a majority and a landslide by seats but that's the ongoing flaw with our political election system. They didn't in anyway get a majority of the vote share.

    44% of the vote netted them 368-ish seats.
    11% of the vote netted the Lib Dems 11 seats.
    4% of the vote netted the SNP 48 seats.

    No majority. Edit - to be clear, I mean over 50%. I accept they got a majority in comparison to other parties, but that still isn't representative of the electorate as a whole.
    Last edited by piman2k; 15-01-2020 at 10:37.

  5. #1085
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    In cloud Cucold land
    Posts
    34,530
    Rides
    0
    I do not agree, now while i dont want to be arguing on the side of our resident flat earther i do have to point out that folk that dont vote should not be considered part of the majority / minority or whatever.

    If folk dont vote they dont have a voice and thus should not be considered when discussing the country's views as a whole.

    I didnt vote in the initial referendum and thus dont take much of a stance either-way however i do not agree with the whole "only 37% voted to leave" bla bla bla thing... because that is a majority of the people whe voted and thus is all we have to go on.

  6. #1086
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    19,732
    Rides
    0
    No I'm with you there too. Which is why I never consider people that didn't vote.

    The Tories received 44% of the votes cast, ignoring anyone that didn't vote completely. Yet they have 57% ish of the house.

    The way to look at it is, if you didn't vote for the winning party in your area, then your vote counted for nothing. Not having PR means your view isn't considered at all for that whole 5 years.

    I always go back to Bury North for this - Link

    21,660 Tory votes.
    21,555 Labour votes.
    And 3626 votes for the other parties.

    So in our system, the voices of the 25,181 voters go completely ignored and mean nothing.
    Last edited by piman2k; 15-01-2020 at 10:33.

  7. #1087
    Member stoofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    TROGDOR!
    Posts
    6,552
    Rides
    0
    At least that's a marginal seat where it could have made a difference. I live on the Isle of Wight and before this I lived in Witney. As rock solid Tory strongholds, my vote yields me zero representation, and it won't change under this system.

    I vote out of principle, but I know it's in the bin (bar a long game to slowly make the seat marginal over many elections until more people see the point in voting) . The system we have is designed to graft huge power to a single party that wins a minority of the vote share. It doesn't *really* matter if your MP is Labour or SNP currently, Tories set out the agenda and will vote it through (bar any in-fighting) and have no need to stick to any promises made during the election. This is in contrast to a PR coalition where the members of any coalition hold each other to account and can end the government should the main party turn out to be lying douchebags (e.g. about the minimum wage promise that's already backpedalled).

    A strong govt isn't necessarily bad, but as we move away from an age where said douchebaggery would result in a swift resignation, and into the age where being a sack of shit seems far more likely to rise you through the ranks, something must be put in place to hold our govt to account; else elections will continue to be a string of lies, followed by nothing resembling the manifesto.

    Also for my 2 pence, Labour were never ever going to win this, they were far too left and far too confus(ed/ing) for an election. We all know the Tories were for Brexit, but explaining labour's position took at least a paragraph and even then there was no answer for/against. Such a poor performance against the govt of the day that had a bad record and was making very dubious promises, such as hiring police roughly equal to the number they'd gotten rid of, is a condemnation of Labour more than vindication of the Tories.

  8. #1088
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    12,024
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    I was going to say, they got a majority and a landslide by seats but that's the ongoing flaw with our political election system. They didn't in anyway get a majority of the vote share.
    The problem with our election system is also one of the benefits though.

    It keeps all the really extreme views out, people like the BNP, UKIP and the Brexit Party don't get a look in.
    It also delivers a majority government, where we'd usually have some dodgy coalition or split house.

    Clearly the last few years have demonstrated for anything meaningful to happen we need a majority, otherwise it descends into petty political point scoring.

  9. #1089
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    19,732
    Rides
    0
    Hang on though, that's my point. If it had been marginal the other way it would have been just as unfair.

    I get the system is geared to deliver a victor. But delivering a victor that doesn't represent the people is pointless. If parliament gets stalled, so be it, as long as it correlates to the votes.

  10. #1090
    Member stoofer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    TROGDOR!
    Posts
    6,552
    Rides
    0
    Oh I agree re: representation, but at least marginal seats have the advantage that your vote really could have made a difference.

    @ R3K1355, plenty of countries know how to run a coalition properly, and it has the advantage of not only sidelining extreme views (you don't really build a coalition with them), but ensuring the govt represents more than, for example, the will of Boris Johnson. I'll offer up Finland, who changed PM because the coalition parties could no longer tolerate the PMs policies that were bringing public workers to strike action. In our system, nothing can stop Bojo doing what he wants for 5 years bar Tory in-fighting. The Lib Dems royally ****ed up the best chance we had to see a coalition at work (their failures are remembered far more than the good they did), but it doesn't mean it can't and it works for plenty of other countries.

  11. #1091
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Northamptonshire
    Posts
    19,732
    Rides
    0
    True, I see what you mean about a difference. If it's any consolation, I live in Northamptonshire and everyone here loves Andrea Leadsom. I don't even think it'll change when Mahle, Cosworth and the like go through Brexit stress because Northampton hates immigration.

  12. #1092
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    ashflix.com
    Posts
    22,060
    Rides
    0
    Have you not considered that the people who didn’t vote, realised it would be in the words of Clint Eastwood a “Cluster F***”

    Which it has turned out to be. We are no closer to an agreement that was promised


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #1093
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    ashflix.com
    Posts
    22,060
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    True, I see what you mean about a difference. If it's any consolation, I live in Northamptonshire and everyone here loves Andrea Leadsom. I don't even think it'll change when Mahle, Cosworth and the like go through Brexit stress because Northampton hates immigration.
    But do they hate EU immigration (which contributes to our economy) or Asian and African (who they believe don’t)

    Immigration is a minefield but most of the UK population do not understand it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #1094
    muppet Dr Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Doune
    Posts
    8,748
    Rides
    0
    Something screwy going on with the posts in this thread

    Keep it civil folks please
    power-crazed Head-Mod

  15. #1095
    Guest Asht_200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    ashflix.com
    Posts
    22,060
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Bob View Post
    Something screwy going on with the posts in this thread

    Keep it civil folks please
    You mean we aren't calling people names?

  16. #1096
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Chelmsford,Essex
    Posts
    24,238
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by stoofer View Post
    At least that's a marginal seat where it could have made a difference. I live on the Isle of Wight and before this I lived in Witney. As rock solid Tory strongholds, my vote yields me zero representation, and it won't change under this system.
    If you want representation, all you have to do is vote Tory or move to a labour stronghold. Its a kind of tactical voting where you get represented by voting for the winning side

  17. #1097
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bas Vegas
    Posts
    93,162
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    But do they hate EU immigration (which contributes to our economy) or Asian and African (who they believe don’t)

    Immigration is a minefield but most of the UK population do not understand it


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This ^^^^^

    People were voting leave because of all the Muslamics It should have never been a public vote as the people dont understand the the full repercussions of the outcome.......
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  18. #1098
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    1,113
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Asht_200 View Post
    It wasn't a landslide, they got a majority of 80 ish

    Now lets get the real figures for Brexit

    37.5% of Eligible Voters voted leave
    34.7% of Eligible Voters voted remain

    28% knew it wouldn't make much of a difference which way they voted....

    Hardly a majority vote.

    And just show how Brexit has affected the average household.... and this is from the National Institute of Social and Economic Research and Office of National Statistics (What the Tory Government base their research on)



    It is a bit more scientific than your complete misunderstaing between GPS and GSM and knowing what a Heliosphere is
    Ash, a majority of 80 is a landslide.

  19. #1099
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    12,024
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    If you want representation, all you have to do is vote Tory or move to a labour stronghold. Its a kind of tactical voting where you get represented by voting for the winning side
    Labour strongholds went Tory for the first time in many decades this time round, thats the power of Corbyn!

  20. #1100
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Nottinghamshire
    Posts
    1,113
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    This ^^^^^

    People were voting leave because of all the Muslamics It should have never been a public vote as the people dont understand the the full repercussions of the outcome.......
    The people where too stupid to understand

    What a ridiculous generalization, the EU is doomed politically and financially, more so now we are out, it is better to jump off a sinking ship early before it drags you down with it.

    I'm aware of the fact that we need immigration as we don't have anywhere near enough children that we will need to pay our pensions, especially since this present goverment cut the benefits to the much needed baby makers, but at least now we can choose who comes in.
    Last edited by LeonatLarge; 16-01-2020 at 09:06.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •