Comprehensive guide to reliably running low?

[gooly]

I'm relatively new to nissans; I've had two relatively standard S13s but most of my driving experience has been building and drifting cool road spec E36s, mainly down to how easy they are to run and modify. I have a written off S14a which I bought and I have an S14 rolling shell on the way, with the end goal of having a nice streetable S14 which will occasionally see track use. I do like running cars relatively low but there seems to be a plethora of issues that come up when you run S14s low and drive them hard regularly. As far as I know, things that will need addressing are the following:

1) CV joints breaking due to excess pitch angle
2) Exhaust scraping, premature turbo gasket failure / manifold cracking due to movement
3) Front arch loom rubbing through
4) Inner arch clearance

There are bits and bobs of information on all these issues but I wanted to see if we could compile a comprehensive thread of the best ways to address these issues on a relatively simple build. I don't want to tub arches / cut & resolder loom or do anything major like that and I just plan on running with the standard T28, a 3" turbo back system, some 17s on 235/40s and HSD DTs with basic lock mods like rack spacers and extended LCAs. Ideally I'd like to have arch on tyre up front and tucking most tyre on the back, which from reading other threads is low enough to bring the above issues up.

Solutions which have been suggested so far are:

1)
- Driveshaft spacers, which I've been told need to be welded onto cups ideally
- Raising subframe, thus bringing the diff further in line with hubs (can you get polybush raisers? can only find solid and dont want to solid bush subframe for a road car). Potential change to handling?
-Shortening rear lower arms; again, potential change to handling?
- Getting driveshafts from an auto stagea (as far as I know they have subframes 20mm wider each side than S14s). Not sure on PCD or CV joint maximum angle specs
- Heatwrapping exhaust around driveshaft area, something I plan to do regardless

2)
- Custom exhaust / shortened hangars etc with flexi in downpipe and no flanges, ideally with raised subframe as well. I'd like to run one or two midboxes as I'm not particularly a fan of the sound of blacktop SRs on straight thru exhausts so clearance will be of a particular issue.

3)
- Pulling loom through as much as possible, tucking up above arch lip and hammering arch lip up
- Relocating fuse box into glovebox, not sure what that actually achieves though?
- Cut and re-soldering loom to inside engine bay, would like to avoid if possible

4)
- Hammering all lips etc in
- Making new lockstops to prevent wheels from hitting stuff


Would appreciate any insight on the above or hearing about what people here have tried. Loom and driveshafts are particular sticking points as they're both stuff I really don't want to have to screw about with once the car is built.

[leno]

Depends how low is low really.. mines pretty low and so far seems to be all okay. I've tucked the loom up and made a metal arch liner to protect the grommet area, ive also wrapped the exhaust like you say, and removed all the flanges. Main area that's an issue is where the exhaust runs by the diff, oh and you'll need a twin pipe downpipe thingy..

[morzy2k5]

My front subframe is approx 2.5 - 3inches from the floor.i think my 14a is pretty slammed. All I have done is re routed the arch loom and pulled it through into the Bay Area so there are no Wires in the arch at all. And made my own custom downpipe that is tucked right up to the floor pan almost with a nice big flex section in it near the turbo and as above I have cut all my Flanges off so they can't hit the floor.other than that this is all I have done,I didn't bother wrapping anything as if the exhaust catches anything it just ripps it off anyway.mine is not heat wrapped and it's fine.im running no silencers just 3" from the turbo all the way back to a home brew shotgun affair

[Chriscooke]

If imagine geomaster hubs would help you run low without killing the way the at drives.

[Clarkey]

For sure use geomasters, they drive like garbage when slammed on stock hubs.
Spend the extra on monopro.
Don't bother trying to tuck the loom higher in the arch, it will still rub through. Do something else, best is to run it through the bay, I wouldn't cut and shut the loom though, just unplug it all in the cabin, pull it back through and down through the triangular hole in the inner wing, you will have to enlarge the hole though.

[gooly]

I'm planning on running 17x9s all round with 235/40, standard arch on tyre up front and standard arch tucking tyre up rear. Geo's are out of budget for me and by the sounds of it seem to require 18s to run properly; from what I can see you can get issues of the inner wheel rubbing on arms on lock due to the drop knuckle lowering the arms in relation to the wheel itself, and rears seem to absolutely deck the back even on full extension on coilovers. If it does drive poo I will raise it though.

Are mono's worth the money on a road car? I'd like the caster adjustable top mounts but I don't want a super stiff setup but would gladly put the extra cash in if they would benefit on a road car, however the money I would save by buying dualtechs would help go towards a proper 2-way as opposed to a welder; It's just a matter of figuring out whats a better use of the cash.

Relocating as opposed to tucking the loom will be ideal. Whats the deal with unplugging it in the cabin? Havent got an issue with widening the hole. Does the dash need to come out?


Driveability / general enjoyment is the first priority, I want the end goal of having something which can be fun down lanes, fun on a drift day and dailyable without electrical fires / weekly turbo gasket / driveshaft changes.

[morzy2k5]

I'm running 17x9 et -8 up front with -2.5degress camber and 17x9.5 et -11 on the rear running -4degrees neg camber on standard arches just rolled and a very slight pull. If you want to go proper low you won't be able to run a 235 tyre on a 9j with a decent offset as it will catch the arch.you will need to stretch slightly. So a 215 40 17 on a 9j if it were me.

This may give you a rough idea....plus it lets me picture whore haha

[Clarkey]

fun down lanes,

you can pretty much forget any such ideas if you want to be low.

[Slamz]

Geo's are out of budget for me and by the sounds of it seem to require 18s to run properly; from what I can see you can get issues of the inner wheel rubbing on arms on lock due to the drop knuckle lowering the arms in relation to the wheel itself, and rears seem to absolutely deck the back even on full extension on coilovers. If it does drive poo I will raise it though.

I'm not sure who's given you that info but it's completely wrong. Plenty of people running 17's with Geo's with no issues, me included. The only issue I've ever heard of is when running adjustable lower arms, the ball joint nut rubs the inside of the wheel, but that can be solved with an angle grinder (I did not have to modify anything with my 17's though and run adjustable front lower arms)

If you go mega low without Geo's it will handle terribly. Prepare to destroy CV's too. Alex Law is the guy to ask about going low though, he's managing to do it and make his car brilliantly drivable.

Even if you go with Geo's, 'fun down lanes' won't happen. You can have that, or mega low. My car is pretty low and I'm raising it soon as although it handles pretty damn well currently, I'm sick of it bouncing and scraping down country lanes.

[Clarkey]

Seriously I can't argue the case for geomasters enough. I tried for ages to get the car dialled in nciely on stock hubs but no matter what I tried it was always badly behaved. Finally gave in and put geos on and it was a revelation, little bit of further messing around and it drives great now. Just take a look at the before and after of the arms.



I haven't got the front ones yet, but I will do soon, I have pretty bad bump steer problems now and I think RC correction will see a big improvement in the feel of it too.

My car is more or less a pure trackday car now though although I have done the odd drift day and did matsuri with good success. It isn't super low, just tucking tyre on the back and a little gap at the front, I have killed a n/s CV joint though just replaced it.

[Slamz]

My only gripe with Geo's is the front ones, on a lot of lock at very slow speed, seem to drag the inside wheel due to Ackerman changes. Honestly though, once you're moving they're brilliant, transform our old chassis!

[gooly]

Thanks for the responses, been mega helpful so far. Fun down lanes is a relative term I guess, by that which I mean it's not going to be purely built and set up for drifting at the expense of anything else. I've always daily'd low cars and I know there's only a certain threshold to which you can enjoy them on UK roads & lanes, I'm gonna try my best to strike a nice balance but I know it'll always be a compromise. I'm not planning on decking this 14, just minimising wheel gap on 17s.

I didn't realise quite how much the arms on s-bodies angle up when they're lowered, that's pretty nuts. Will have to see if I can get some geos financed. Just a note though, by raising the spindle height surely geos would contribute to CVs dying as opposed to helping it? Obviously there will be ways around that regardless but just wondering really.

Morzky your car sits brilliantly, I'm going down a similar route if a little more older looking with a Zenki and some advan SA3 splits. 215/40 sounds like the way forward, I've usually run that size on previous cars.

[diamondsink]

I have geomasters and run the car low (tyre tucked) . Ive not have any problems with the drive shafts even though the internet says you will. I did grind a scallop out the traction arm fork to clear the outer boot on compression.

The main issue i had was the bottom coilover bush. Take a look at the angle of it in the second image above. It works with CS2s as they use a rubber bush but with Apex coilover the bush is too stiff. I had to turn down some poly bushes (porsche arb bush iirc) to replace them. to be honest it's a bad design, the pin should be angled differently.



Even with geos and that low the suspension still isn't working properly but it the sacrifice for the look.

[misterjake]

First off.

Low car, drifting, daily driver. Unless you spank a lot of money, there will be compromises. Predictable handling is what you want, and as long as you are aware of how the car will react then you will be fine. It will be rough, it will follow the bumps, curves, dips and white lines on the road, and wear tires.

Scraping exhaust - get a bit of flexi put in after the downpipe. This will preserve your gaskets when you inevitably scrape the exhaust.

Loom can be pushed up onto the lip above it and re-secured. Easy to do.

Inner arch clearance can be a pain. Get some spacer, run a bit of camber and deal with the tire wear.



In terms of what you mentioned:

1)
- Driveshaft spacers - cheap and easy to fit, not really that necessary unless your properly hammering it sideways

- Raising subframe - not really heard or seen of people doing this, ive never had to and mines reasonably low.

-Shortening rear lower arms - some adjustable arms on the back is pretty necessary to avoid crap geometry.

- Getting driveshafts from an auto stagea - i'm assuming these are similar to skyline shafts, yes this is popular as they are stronger. Not sure what other bits you will need to fit, but my complete arse end is R33 skyline bits.

- Heatwrapping exhaust around driveshaft area, something I plan to do regardless - personal preference.

2)
- Custom exhaust / shortened hangars etc with flexi in downpipe and no flanges - flexi is always a good idea, apex do a decent low clearance twin downpipe. Sound and silencers etc is always personal preference. Get an exhaust made and any reputable place will work with you to get it as close to the body as possible.

3)
- Pulling loom through as much as possible, tucking up above arch lip and hammering arch lip up - easy job, some people cut a new hole further back on the inner wing to allow the loom to be properly pulled over the lip. If you dont do this, you can only tuck some of the loom, but again I havent had a problem, although I will be cutting the extra hole soon for maximum peace of mind.

- Relocating fuse box into glovebox, not sure what that actually achieves though? - mostly a cleaner engine bay. Simple to do in theory, but involves some lengthening of wires and a lot of re-routing. LABEL EVERYTHING.

- Cut and re-soldering loom to inside engine bay, would like to avoid if possible - mostly in conjunction with the above.

4)
- Hammering all lips etc in - always good to flatten the arch inner lips, that way when you rub you wont dig exciting new tread patterns into your tires.




Click the link in my signature. The first pic is my old green S14a. Not particularly low, but thats just on the cheap HSD coilovers, 17x9 wheels, spacers up front with some camber. Standard arms etc. Handled well, only caught the exhaust on the biggest speedbumps.

[leno]

I think everyone's perception of low is different! I personally wouldn't wanna go any lower than this (especially after checking my arm angle)



One man's low is another man's 4x4 spec!

[gooly]

I do understand there will be a compromise involved, the main thing is trying to figure out how far I can go without realising the hard way after breaking stuff. I've daily'd and tracked low drifty RWDs for a while now, just never an S14 so I'm well aware of the usual tramlining, scraping, compromised geo & clearance etc. For reference, this was my last E36:



Not gonna go for anything as extreme on that on my 14 as I do actually enjoy how sbodys handle; I just want to attain the fitment I want as detailed above.

Morzky's car is the kind of height I'd love to run at, if maybe a little higher.

If you cut a new hole in the inner wing, how do you actually run the loom through it? How / where do you disconnect it to run it through there?

Also, for reference Stagea auto shafts are longer as Stagea autos have subframes which are 20mm wider each side. Longer driveshafts would give the same result as driveshaft spacers.

Raising the subframe as far as I know aids traction and reduces geometry change under load, great for drifting. Similar purpose to geos really.

[Slamz]

All unplugs under the steering wheel/dash then pulls through. It's much easier than it sounds.