Track day brakes..options?

[Skyline boy]

Hi guys,

Thinking ahead for the SXOC track day in March, I need your opionions, my current setup is

Fronts : -
DBA Australia discs
Carbon Lorraine pads

Rears : -
Standard and old R33 disc and pads setup
Braided lines

Master cylinder stopper, upgraded fluid, ABS.

When I went to Lydden hill for the bhp show, I went out for 15 mins and all going well until I got some big brake fade near the end of the 15 min session, I was giving it some the whole time, and as some of you may now, Lydden hill is a tough track on tires, and I'm guessing brakes(?!) as its a short and hilly track. Why did I fade some much when I have carbon brake pads up front?! Is it because my rear discs and pads are poop?

Next on my list is to upgrade the rear discs to some drilled DBA discs and yellow stuff pads and braided lines for the front, and new fluid. Anything else I should do? Rear pads ok?



Car isn't used every day, once a month maybe, I have to drive to each track/event though, power is approx 300bhp at the mo but going up to 400+ soon.

[Mike41288]

Could brake cooling ducts be a cheap option? I'm not so knowledgable with brakes but I think that overheating the discs is a big contributor to brake fade.


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[Skyline boy]

Ok, thanks, something to look into.

[harrymc]

As for having brake fade with your current set up, the main reason is the discs /pad surface is going past its working temperature.
There are a few options to solve this.
Higher temperature pads-I've not been impressed with the ebc yellow/red stuff pads, and I definitely don't think they deserve the price point they're at. There was a big thread a few years ago about pads/reviews on the forum that I'm sure you'll be able to find with a quick search. I've personally used mintex 1155 ds2500, carbon lerain Rc5s and Rc6s which have been my favourite on this car for daily/occasional track use.

Bigger discs as there is more metal to heat up and more metal to dissipate the heat. If you can find a db power front 330mm kit and a z32 rear set up it would be a vast improvement over standard.

You can get groved /Drilled dimpled discs, I've never been completely convinced by this as you've redusing the braking surface and making the discs more prone to cracking.

Final option is additional cooling/improving airflow. Cutting dust Shields for the front discs is an improvement, otherwise ducts to the front wheel well or directly onto the centre of the disc. I did it on my previous S2000, but I've not needed to on the sx.

[Skyline boy]

I have the R33 setup on the rear already which is the same as the z32, but the discs and pads are old and rubbish. I'll looking into the minted pads and the ds2500, what about the ds3000? I found the yellow stiff pads for 47 quid which I thought was a bargain!

[harrymc]

I haven't tried ds3000 on the sx, I found all the ferrodos very fast wearing, barely lasting 2 track days at combe.
If you can cope with the noise, the mintex 1155s are very good

[harrymc]

And for the rear discs as they're non vented lumps of cast iron the only differences will be anti rust coatings for the disc centres (most of which will flake off at high temperatures during track use - like the mtech black coating)
And groves/dimples/holes which are meant to aid cooling which I mentioned above.

Expensive (non floating) and cheap discs are all cast iron that'll cool at the rate depending on airflow

[Skyline boy]

The r33 discs are vented, although the backing plate seems to over hang the vent quite a bit, seems to make the vent a bit pointless! Where do you get your 1155's from? I can't seem to get them for an R33(rears), I have tried demon tweeks, merlin motorsport,I also went on the mintex website but couldn't see any info regarding the 1155's.

[harrymc]

I don't have z32 calipers on mine.

Do you also have a bm57?

[-ghost-]

brembo, brembo, brembo.



or maybe Ksport, D2

if your going to go unto 400hp i'd be going for a least evo 8 brembos with big discs(tho not stupid)on the front and upgrade the rear R33 to good discs and pads.

also bleed all the brake fluid out and change it to a good quality high temp stuff makes a huge difference to brake fade the Z32 brake master is a good upgrade.

Make sure you have good tyres else you will just be locking up every 5 mines.

[Skyline boy]

Thanks guys, I have a full r33 backend, subframe, claipers, handbrake, disc etc.

Think I'm going to get some DBA discs for the rear and super duper pads.. Just not sure which. Replace the fluid too.

Not upgrades the master cylinder.benefit?

Tires is next on my list, although i may be changing my wheels soon, federal 595's any good?

[Skyline boy]

The carbon Lorraine pads on the front put you through the windscreen once they are warm, think it must have been the fluid that got cooked,

[handsomedez]

I'll be selling my Brembo Gran Turismo kit soon which is massive 4-pots, 355mm 2-piece discs, Brembo pads, braided hoses etc. Ideal for trackdays.

[harrymc]

ATE200 is the best bang for buck brake fluid, similar BP to castor react or whatever its called these days but ~£12 for a litre instead of £30

[markcro]

The first thing to ask is what brake fluid are you using and how old is it? 9 years of driving my car on track and as a daily I have never had brake fade even with standard brakes with good pads. Flush the brake system with some good fluid with a higher spec boiling point such as Motul, ATE, etc. I personally use Halford DOT4 "Racing". It's not cheap but it's easier to find than the other high spec stuff and has never let me down.
Are your caliper fully working? i.e. they don't have a sticky piston causing them to overheat?
For the last few years I have been running Skyline GTST calipers all around with BD Power's 330mm Big Brake kit up front. That was the single biggest improving mod on the car. The brakes could pull your face off and have never ever faded.

I've used Redstuff - I wasn't a fan. They were "okay" but not confidence inspiring. And the cold bite for daily driving was terrible.
Ferrodos 2500s - Amazing pad. But bloody expensive. The cold bite was better than the Redstuff but still not great.
Yellowstuff - I've been using these for the last few years. Excellent pad on and off the track. And they are half the price of 2500s. But the one downside is that they are dusty as hell. Really dusty! But I can live with that.

Start with the basics:
- Good pads
- Fresh high boiling point fluid. (flush every year)
- Do all pistons in the caliper freely push home? i.e. not sticking?

If you still have brake fade then look at bigger brake upgrade.

Braided brake lines, stopper etc. are tweaks. They don't make bad brakes good. They are just a small tweak so don't expect wonders from things like that.

Oh and I run the standard MBC. After all of the research that I did I found no benefit of changing it. The R32 Skyline uses the same so it should be grand for an SX.

[AdamRPS13]

The first thing to ask is what brake fluid are you using and how old is it? 9 years of driving my car on track and as a daily I have never had brake fade even with standard brakes with good pads. Flush the brake system with some good fluid with a higher spec boiling point such as Motul, ATE, etc. I personally use Halford DOT4 "Racing". It's not cheap but it's easier to find than the other high spec stuff and has never let me down.
Are your caliper fully working? i.e. they don't have a sticky piston causing them to overheat?
For the last few years I have been running Skyline GTST calipers all around with BD Power's 330mm Big Brake kit up front. That was the single biggest improving mod on the car. The brakes could pull your face off and have never ever faded.

I've used Redstuff - I wasn't a fan. They were "okay" but not confidence inspiring. And the cold bite for daily driving was terrible.
Ferrodos 2500s - Amazing pad. But bloody expensive. The cold bite was better than the Redstuff but still not great.
Yellowstuff - I've been using these for the last few years. Excellent pad on and off the track. And they are half the price of 2500s. But the one downside is that they are dusty as hell. Really dusty! But I can live with that.

Start with the basics:
- Good pads
- Fresh high boiling point fluid. (flush every year)
- Do all pistons in the caliper freely push home? i.e. not sticking?

If you still have brake fade then look at bigger brake upgrade.

Braided brake lines, stopper etc. are tweaks. They don't make bad brakes good. They are just a small tweak so don't expect wonders from things like that.

Oh and I run the standard MBC. After all of the research that I did I found no benefit of changing it. The R32 Skyline uses the same so it should be grand for an SX.

I'm quoting this mainly for the BMC comments, as i had real trouble with my brakes as in a very inconsistent pedal either all braking force or nothing. I was using R33 gtr brembo's all round on standard s13 BMC, and swapping it out to a Z32 cylinder gave me a lovely pedal and really confidence inspiring brakes which made the driving experience much better as i was locking up all the time before. So if the OP upgrades the brakes beyond the capability of the BMC then a z32 one is definitely a recommendation from me.

I also prefer ds2500's over yellow stuffs, but i guess that depends on how you drive the car

[harrymc]

The bm57 I found improved pedal feel massively allowing better braking modulation. Especially after removing the abs

[markcro]

I'm quoting this mainly for the BMC comments, as i had real trouble with my brakes as in a very inconsistent pedal either all braking force or nothing. I was using R33 gtr brembo's all round on standard s13 BMC, and swapping it out to a Z32 cylinder gave me a lovely pedal and really confidence inspiring brakes which made the driving experience much better as i was locking up all the time before. So if the OP upgrades the brakes beyond the capability of the BMC then a z32 one is definitely a recommendation from me.

I also prefer ds2500's over yellow stuffs, but i guess that depends on how you drive the car

The GTR Brembos have a larger internal volume so then it would make sense upgrading to the larger BMC as it has to shift more liquid. I say this will be the case if Wilwoods, etc are used also. But I used R33 GTST calipers which have the same internal volume as the standard SX calipers, so the standard BMC suits them perfectly as well as front/ rear bias. And from reading the above, the OP also went R33 GTST calipers. So no point in upgrading in this (my) case, also less hassle :-) . The result is that I have lovely progressive and controllable brakes which are able to brake from 100 to 20 all day long while on track. The tyres cook before the brakes do.

What Z32 BMC did you use? It's so long since I looked at the BMC numbers, but is that the same as the standard S14 BMC anyway?

[mikeykt]

I think the z32 master cylinder is a BM57, that's what I have on my 14

[harrymc]

The BM57 Is the one to go for