S13 cooling for the track

[M.D.]

Just thought I'd ask people's options.
Basically I use my car on track but when running high boost (1.3 bar) I can only get about 3-4 laps in before my pre set coolant limit Rev limiter kicks in at 110 degrees.

On a lower boost (less than a bar) it will pretty much run all day long.

So what I'm after is how have people cured this coolant temp issue as ive done all the usual things.

My spec is.
Apex ally rad
Large electric fan from a Volvo
Then in front of that an oil cooler.
Then the standard front mount intercooler.
I also have a cooling panel to stop the air coming out there.
And a cut bonnet vent to duct the air out the back of the rad.



I have been very tempted to make up a v mount set up as my friend at the track runs his rx7 with one and had no issues all day.

But before I do was wondering how people have ducted or cured heat issues on there cars. Pics and personal experiences would be brillInt

[R3K1355]

You've kept the original under-tray, that does a fair bit for airflow.
Is there no way you can keep the stock fan and shroud as well, it's much better than electric setups.

[zeppelin101]

You're probably getting air to the radiator but not really away from it. Probably worth looking at ways of venting airflow from the engine bay once it's got in there.

[piman2k]

How handy are you feeling?

Layer your radiator and IC together, butt them up to each other if you can, and you'll maximise the usefulness of the pressure differential between them. Cosworth used to do it a long time ago.

Then cut yourself a couple of solid sheets to box the IC/rad off from the surrounding air and see if you can't vent that through the hood.

If I had to guess, and I mean guess, I would roll with Zep's notion that you've got ample in but not enough out. Think the easy misconception is it's all about getting lots of cold air into an engine bay, when it's actually about getting air in and out of it in a swift fashion.

[dykkerdahl]

http://www.google.dk/imgres?imgurl=h...tart=0&ndsp=18

[Jezz_S13]

Maybe move the oil cooler out of the line of the IC/RAD into the inner wing.

Make some better ducting so any air going through the bumper has to go across the IC/RAD.

Maybe try some water wetter or waterless coolant.
Water Wetter.
http://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=10

Waterless coolant.
http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/

Run your heaters on full chat.
Check your rad fans are blowing/sucking the right way.

[BLAKTOOTH]

Maybe move the oil cooler out of the line of the IC/RAD into the inner wing.

Not maybe, definitely move this. When I decide to mount my oil cooler in front of my IC (was at least 3" away) I didn't think it would affect the IC. I was wrong. After blasting it round Brands Hatch I felt the IC and it had a large warm area directly behind the oil cooler. I've now moved it to one side, away from the IC rad sandwich.

Viscous setup with shroud and undertray seems to work exceptionally well so I'd ditch the volvo fan and go back to that.

Is this temp issue on grip or Drift?

[Jonny Wilkinson]

A lot of the temperature will be coming from the exhaust mani and the turbo, especially if you are pushing the limit of the turbo. Does the mani glow ?

If its a T28, 1.3 bar will be generating mostly heat and not much more boost from 1.2 bar.

Having the vent in the bonnet may even be making the problem worse as you are getting the air out of the engine bay before its had time to pick up heat from the turbo/mani.

As said above, retaining the undertray will help provide a tube for the air to move through the engine bay and running the viscous fan will help stop "calm" areas developing towards the back of the engine bay.

[M.D.]

Thankyou for all the replies.
I will definitely look into wrapping the manifold as that's always been a concern of mine.
The turbo itself isn't really possible as ive tried those blanket things and they get in the way of pipework and the actuator.

The turbo is a special td05 style turbo. And will happily run over 2 bar of boost. So it's not that.

I'm tempted to take a bonnet to the next track day without the vent. The reason I did the vent in the first place was a friend had done it for a ring trip and it made a huge difference.

Ducting seems to be my friend here by the sounds of it. But it's how people have achieved this would be interesting.
I'd love to fit the stock undertray. But finding one for an s13 is harder than finding a non crazy woman!

[R3K1355]

Make one up, it doesn't have to be pretty - just functional. Sheet ali, or something.

Can you make up some kind of turbo heat shield to surround the turbo or is there no space??

[zeppelin101]

You could buy a sheet of ABS and make one. Won't cost much for the sheet. Something that's on my hit list eventually.

Out of interest - do you have arch liners? There are some holes that go from the backs of the engine bay on both sides into the wheel arches. Those holes may help excavate heat but you would need a "clean" air environment which a wheel well isn't - unless you can block those off from the wheel well itself and direct the air elsewhere.

Just a thought. I've got nothing to back it up beyond a random thought I had looking around my engine bay at the weekend.

[Rubix_Cube]

Try and fix the problem as it stands like most have said with better ducting to allow the air flow to move correctly.

V-Mounts are awesome, but need work and if rushed/done incorrectly they can have the same problems.

[M.D.]

We would do the v mount properly and we have made one on an rx7 that worked brilliantly recently.
Even without any ducting as we first made it. It was a marked improvement over the stock set up.
Now we have finished the job. His coolant temps didn't go about 98 all track day. And that was after 15 laps of oulton park on one session.
Mine I can't get more than 5-6 on high boost.

The other thing. If I run something like 10psi. It'll run all day long with no heat issues. I'm going to see if we can have a play with the map to add some cooling. Maybe a little more fuel on overrun. Things like that.

[zeppelin101]

Full load fuelling shouldn't be ignored. Do you have an EGT sensor? I would look to try to tune to a temperature limit rather than an assumed AFR for peak power because frankly, that sucks balls as an idea. I'd rather know the temps were in check first. No good making power if you're melting things in the bay with heat.

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Full load fuelling shouldn't be ignored. Do you have an EGT sensor? I would look to try to tune to a temperature limit rather than an assumed AFR for peak power because frankly, that sucks balls as an idea. I'd rather know the temps were in check first. No good making power if you're melting things in the bay with heat.

I think this is a very good point and it chimes with something an engine tuner (who tuned BSB bikes) once told me about fueling for temp. control at the top end rather than mindlessly chasing max power AFRs.

[zeppelin101]

There is a reason OEM maps are all very rich at the top end, and it is for that very reason.

[Jonny Wilkinson]

There is a reason OEM maps are all very rich at the top end, and it is for that very reason.

I thought it was to make them "safe" for all cars of that make/model/variant as tolerances etc. make each individual car different.

I am saying "thought" as its just something I read somewhere.

[zeppelin101]

I thought it was to make them "safe" for all cars of that make/model/variant as tolerances etc. make each individual car different.

I am saying "thought" as its just something I read somewhere.

The primary factor is component protection which amounts to either manifold temperature or turbine temperature in turbocharged engines.

There is a secondary factor for robustness and market requirements. Tolerances to fuels from 90 to 100 RON and any mixes with methanol / ethanol in between are about it, but the fuelling control is usually a by-product of air requirement / knock so you can imagine that on something like 90 RON the knock limit is so low that there will be a level of de-rate from rated power so temperatures don't suffer so much.