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Thread: Odd results at rolling road today. Any thoughts please?

  1. #21
    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    I'd say it's just the dyno...

    The 360 should make peak power at 8500rpm, that 'plot' only ran to 7500 (and 5th in the 360 is 1.03:1 so almost identical to the 180SX in 4th)

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Actual_Ben_Taylor View Post
    I'd say it's just the dyno...

    The 360 should make peak power at 8500rpm, that 'plot' only ran to 7500 (and 5th in the 360 is 1.03:1 so almost identical to the 180SX in 4th)
    It's the F1 paddle box, 1.03:1 is for the 6 speed manual, but I can't seem to find the ratios for the F1 box (if they differ).

    Edit:
    Seems like they are the same from what I can find? so yer.. that kinda throws out any guesses
    Last edited by Morf; 16-07-2014 at 08:57.

  3. #23
    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59bhp View Post
    to be fair ive only seen 360's make about 320-330 on dyno dynamics dynos so maybe it does over read and coincidentally just brought the 360 up to standard power :S
    It's all shenanigans anyway if they're quoting flywheel horsepower as it's a complete unknown without measuring the rest of the driveline for losses.

  4. #24
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 59bhp View Post
    to be fair ive only seen 360's make about 320-330 on dyno dynamics dynos so maybe it does over read and coincidentally just brought the 360 up to standard power :S
    I was going to say this also. The Fezza's are well known for being overquoted from factory bhp wise, and if the 360 made 390 the dyno is hugely over reading.
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
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  5. #25
    Guest Dave270r's Avatar
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    As others have said, I'm amazed to see a 360 make 390bhp! Very optimistic crowd pleasing dyno?

    Why did you go there for a power run? Was it really cheap?

  6. #26
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    A bloke in a shed writing numbers down isnt a very good way to get a dyno run IMO. You need wheel figures, AFR etc and proper graphs.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
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  7. #27
    Guest R3K1355's Avatar
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    That's Baldwins place, I've been there and his dyno is as old as the hills.
    IIRC it's only really accurate to around 200bhp anyway.

    He's ****ing wicked at tuning Mini's and old Carb'd VW's.

  8. #28
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    Hey guys cheers for the comments.

    To answer some questions:

    - we had no idea of the state of the rolling road. It just came up in a google search for RR's in Cambridgeshire and I booked us in. I was expecting a proper set up, so it's my bad I guess.

    - well he said on the phone 75 for 2 cars, which was great! But when we got the bill it was actually 135, which was a bit annoying.

    - yeh well from the views shared I think it was a sham day, but just write it off as a failure and try again somewhere else I guess.

    - yes HKS2530 is more or less a T28R. Think it's a slightly different compressor map from memory.

    - I'm doing my own mapping so I know the car is making the correct AFR's etc. The reason for going to a RR was to get the following info:
    A) to see what what power the car is actually making, ensuring that it tallies up with my predicitons, and making sure that there were no major losses in the drivetrain that I was unaware of. Unlike a normal person, I'm actually trying NOT to make a lot of power. The car is to be a track car and will face some hard times ahead, so engine-wise I am trying to make it a bullet-proof set up. Hence the conservative ignition timings. So when I see 392bhp.... I poop my pants and think - dang now it's going to explode on me half way around Brands Hatch
    B) to check that the engine is not detonating. I hooked my det cans up on yesterdays rolling road day, but I couldn't hear sh*t. All I could hear was the extractor fans in the room. So that side of things was a failure also


    In conclusion:

    I did talk to Jez about going to him for the RR power run and getting him to check for knock for me. And it probably would have worked out cheaper, AND he would have done a good job! But life isn't that easy at the moment. I have ME, and driving 20 miles to Wimpole dam near killed me, so driving south of London to see Jez just is just a little out of my physical ability at the moment

    I don't think there are any other reputable RR's in Cambs-ish area that I know of?

    Thanks

    EDIT - yeh Baldwin that's it. Yeh he has some mental mini's there, looked awesome

  9. #29
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  10. #30
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    As far as I'm aware all dyno's are setup differently as they all have different bearing load rates to get them going etc but there not setup for specific gears its more to do with ratios etc as all cars have different ratios some cars don't even have 5th. Every time I've been to a dyno and used a few different ones they all used 4th as it was closest gear to 1 and all ran spot on exact same power some were dyno dynamics and some were something else but all used same theory.

    What % was he adding? As all dyno's give true whp rating some places will add 30% some places only 15% to calculate flywheel bhp depends on how true an answer you want

  11. #31
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    How far is APT?
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  12. #32
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    Just had a look - they are just north of Nowrich. I guess that 1.5-2 hours from me at a slow pace.

    I think that may be do-able. They look pretty pro by their website with a proper set up and good rates.

  13. #33
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    I'll give them a call now and see what their lead time is.

  14. #34
    I <3 BBS LM Actual_Ben_Taylor's Avatar
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    Zen Performance are probably nearer, but I'd definitely recommend APT having used them for years

  15. #35
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    wellllll I called APT. Guy seems like a nice guy.

    He says they are willing to do a power run, but not willing to check for detonation. So that's half way there I suppose.

    OK I'll look up Zen now.

  16. #36
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    OK well Zen don't have a RR but have put me onto RGS of northants - so calling there now. oooo exciting!

  17. #37
    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotch_kris View Post
    What % was he adding? As all dyno's give true whp rating some places will add 30% some places only 15% to calculate flywheel bhp depends on how true an answer you want
    Because adding make believe percentages onto an actual measured figure has always been a great idea.

    You cannot interpret flywheel horsepower from wheel horsepower without physically measuring the bits in between! Some assumed percentage that someone once said was sensible for some drivetrain configuration is bollocks!

  18. #38
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    Wheel horsepower is the one to be bothered by anyway. Just use that

  19. #39
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin101 View Post
    Because adding make believe percentages onto an actual measured figure has always been a great idea.

    You cannot interpret flywheel horsepower from wheel horsepower without physically measuring the bits in between! Some assumed percentage that someone once said was sensible for some drivetrain configuration is bollocks!
    It depends how accurate you want to be. If you took whp for a 200sx with standard gearbox and diff etc and added 15% to 20% that is a reasonable estimate...I agree with you that measuring is the only way to be accurate...but in the real world no one in going to go to the expense of obtaining the accurate figure so we can take wbhp as accurate and fbhp as estimate.

    But then again...rollings roads seem to vary so much they can be further out than the actual estimates...
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
    2010 - on : 2007 RX8 PZ
    1998 - 2004 : 1991 S13

  20. #40
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    the SAE have always used power quoted at the flywheel as the standard unit of measurement, until they change that I don’t see why anybody should go about quoting fabricated acronyms such as "whp" (which more annoyingly substitutes the word "brake" for "wheel" suggesting the power is measured in a different way other than applying an opposing force)
    Last edited by 59bhp; 16-07-2014 at 13:22.

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