Poor breaking performance with willwood front setup

[Chriscooke]

The willwoods on the front of my 14a don't seem to be performing as they should. At the moment they stop the car fine but lock easily causing the abs to cut in far to early.

When on the mot rollers they only pulled up the same breaking power as a mates sx with standard calipers and not far over the pass mark, my z32 rears are pulling up slightly higher figures which isn't ideal. The calipers are about three years old and have covered less than 8k miles, they are fitted with the yellow stuff pads that came with the kit.

Any suggestions as to what the issue could be?

I'm going to check the calipers are free and have a look at the pads to check their condition, I also need to change the fluid soon but i'm at a loss other than that. I'd expect these breaks to be far better than the oem set up.

[mikeyrs]

I seem to have the same problem, only my setup is standard calipers all round fronts freshly rebuilt and yellow stuff pads but the abs seems to kick in early :| my astra work van seems to want to brake harder than the 200.

Things mentioned to me were alignment and or rusty/filthy abs pickup/sensor

[-ghost-]

I do prefer brembos over the wilwoods but i found on the s14 even with huge 6 pot fronts/4 pot rears brembos the brakes wasn't great changing the BMC to the bigger z32 one helps.

the wilwoods also took the piss to bleed but if you have done 8k then guessing thats not the case.

[Slamz]

I've not got Wilwoods, but I've always hated the ABS on mine, it's crap and kicks in way too early. Hated it so much, it's all been ripped out now!

[snops]

Agreed ABS cuts in too early and by too much. Would love to reduce the sensitivity. Have almost run into someone because of a bump in the road at very low speeds.

Chris is it that your brake balance is not right. The piston area on the fronts doesnt work with the rear

[jj205mi16]

i wouldn't really say a roller brake test is an accurate test when it comes to performance, its mostly checking balance and the ability to lock a wheel and if theres any warp on the disc itself. it will only make a difference when more weight is added to the braking wheel or grip on the roller if you know what i mean. There is obviously no weight transferred to the front as you know.

[sammos13]

do you know which Willwoods they are? I know a lot of the willwoods don't come with dust seals which makes them prone to sticking... do you know if any of your pistons are sticking in the calipers?

[Zornyan]

Personally never rated wilwoods/cheap chinese calipers. On all the kits ive seen the calipers have massive amounts of flex, and always feel poor, brembos, ap's, alcons etc always perform far better and dont have as many issues.

I know their a damm sight more expensive, but even still id rather use oem brembos off another car than cheap kits.

And before people say "my willwoods are fine etc' i imagine some are, but their still not in the same league as the bigger names

[Actual_Ben_Taylor]

do you know which Willwoods they are? I know a lot of the willwoods don't come with dust seals which makes them prone to sticking... do you know if any of your pistons are sticking in the calipers?

Personally never rated wilwoods/cheap chinese calipers. On all the kits ive seen the calipers have massive amounts of flex, and always feel poor, brembos, ap's, alcons etc always perform far better and dont have as many issues.

I know their a damm sight more expensive, but even still id rather use oem brembos off another car than cheap kits.

And before people say "my willwoods are fine etc' i imagine some are, but their still not in the same league as the bigger names

These 2 things

Check the pistons aren't sticking, and check for movement in the caliper when applying the brakes (I've seen calipers flex apart when the brakes are applied as they're just not strong enough).

[sparky_s13]

I have just fitted a Z32 master cylinder, ABS delete kit and the 345mm Wilwoods, will report back with how they perform.

I hope they are good because the stock set up is dire.

Have they always been poor or is it recently? Surely pads may be dying after 3 years. Its probably a lot to do with the ABS and stock master cylinder especially with twin pot rear brakes aswell.

[Chriscooke]

I'm sure they used to be better but were never the step change from standard I had hoped for if I am honest.

I'll check for sticky pistons and flex when I next get the car out to work on. The brakes were bled and re-bled so I'm confident that their is no air in the system, the fluid is old though so could have some moisture in which isn't ideal by any means.

[Hugh Janus]

Change the Pads Chris, I hated the yellow stuff ones, Wilwood do their own pad called "smart pads" the do deposit tiny pieces of metal into the wheels but they are a massive improvement over Yellows and the are cheap like £40 for a set

As for ABS kicking in too early..it's better than them locking up just because you looked at the pedal funny

[Chriscooke]

Don't get me wrong i'm a massive fan of abs on a road car and it'll be staying

I wasn't sure if the pads weren't getting up to temp on the road and snatching rather than working as they should tbh.

[Hugh Janus]

I think these are the that I bought:

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...ducts_id=13318

[Chriscooke]

Thanks mate

[Dave270r]

My other half had Wilwood calipers with yellowstuffs on her Impreza and they were great. With respect Chris, if you are moaning about braking performance and your fluid is old, I think that is a good starting point.

As for all this talk of cheap Chinese calipers - Wilwood are a big name in the states and I have always considered them to be a reputable brand.

[Chriscooke]

You are correct mate, thats why i've mentioned it, this may or may not be the issue though hence why i've asked for other opinions to check as well

[Mark]

Had yellowstuff in mine with standard calipers and there were fine, i doubt they are the issue unless they have glazed. Might be worth taking them out and roughing them up a bit to see if it helps.

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Change the fluid.
Move to braided hoses if you haven't already.
Deglaze the pads then bed them back in properly.

Thne you have to start spending money - different pads, upgrade master cylinder, new disks, caliper rebuild, new calipers...

[Zornyan]

Dave wilwoods are big in the us, but if you look around youll notice that the wilwoods that are sold over here/ as bbks are are completly different design to their actual race items.

Plus as ive said they have quite a large amount of flex which is pretty poor, their the same as d2, ksport etc and things like not having dust seals etc is just poor imo, again people that love them will say about stainless pistons etc...but unless you personally clean each piston regularly then they are going to get crab behind them and inside the caliper.


My new setup should be costing far less than a willwood d2 setup but will be using monoblock brembo items which are far superior for above mentioned reasons