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Thread: Well here it is - The European Mustang !!!!!!

  1. #61
    Guest Si's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    I hadn't realised there was such a huge fleet market for premium badge 2-seater dropheads
    You realise there's a 2+2 coupe too, right? So, say a premium 2+2 4 pot coupe at around 45k with reasonable CO2 levels? You're telling em there's no market for that? Not even trying to get people to spend a bit more than their Audi/BMW/Merc?

    What you mean middle-aged, affluent, no mortgage snob with 50K to spend on upgrading their car ?

    Probably more relevant than you think
    It was a genuine question Apologies, badly phrased - however, there is a target market for it, and it's very large. And also quite Russian/Chinese in it's origins...

    I say it again, Jag know what they are doing. Some call it diluting hte brand, others call it doing what they need to survive. If a 4 pot F Type is what's needed to build the brand then I'm all for it.
    Last edited by Si; 05-12-2013 at 13:01.

  2. #62
    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    Hopefully they do see the Mustang as a threat.
    Would you in JLR's position? The F-Type is targeted against the like of the 911 and Cayman. I can't see the sort of individual who wants a prestige marque saying "**** it, I'd rather have a Ford" can you?

    Prestige counts for a lot in that segment of the market place. The Mustang is just going to give Subaru and Toyota a bloody nose if they don't make a properly hot GT86/BRZ sooner rather than later.

  3. #63
    Member R3K1355's Avatar
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    and even if they do Ford could quite easily lob a supercharger onto the V8 model and make it mental.

    or maybe Shelby will do that one and release it over here as a special edition.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin101 View Post
    Would you in JLR's position? The F-Type is targeted against the like of the 911 and Cayman. I can't see the sort of individual who wants a prestige marque saying "**** it, I'd rather have a Ford" can you?

    Prestige counts for a lot in that segment of the market place. The Mustang is just going to give Subaru and Toyota a bloody nose if they don't make a properly hot GT86/BRZ sooner rather than later.
    Its a viewpoint.

    I don't see the Mustang as a Ford a la Fiestas and Mondeos. GT40 and latterly the GT was a Ford, remember.

    I've been looking at late-XKRs and I'd love an F-Type but if I can get a Mustang for £20K less and a manual to boot, then the Ford badge isn't going to stop me.

    I was interested in a BRZ but was put off by the 2+0 seating and the lack of a turbo meaning it had no punch.

    I think there is a market for a RWD coupe in the mid-price range and I don't see anyone filling it.

    If the Mustang looks pretty in the flesh, it doesn't weigh as much as the titanic and its priced around £30-40K, it would go on my short list along with a Jag. If I decided to pay extra for a Jag, I wouldn't want 3 or 4 neighbours rocking up in 4-pot F-types within a year. I think I'd be tempted to save quite a few grand and get a manual V8 Mustang as long as it was RHD.

    I can't speak for everyone, its just the way I'm thinking.

  5. #65
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin101 View Post
    Would you in JLR's position? The F-Type is targeted against the like of the 911 and Cayman. I can't see the sort of individual who wants a prestige marque saying "**** it, I'd rather have a Ford" can you?
    If they dont then they are idiots Just like they are will be idiots if they dont think the Edge (which Ford also unveiled today) isnt a threat to the RR Sport/Disco 4.

    Yes a large % are brand snobs but there are also a large amount of middle class people out there who are after a vehicle in a specific segment (RWD coupe or SUV) and if they can get a similar spec car for a fair chunk less then they will go for it. dont forget Nissan originally went after E36 buyers with the 14a
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    ... dont forget Nissan originally went after E36 buyers with the 14a
    Maybe not the best historical reference given the 14a was a relative sales flop

  7. #67
    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    dont forget Nissan originally went after E36 buyers with the 14a
    Which worked out real well for them - how much was Nissan outsold by? Badge snobbery has arguably only got worse. Look how long it has taken for the likes of Hyundai and Kia to break through over here against the Peugeot's and Citroen. That only happened because of the absurdly long warranty offered and shite product lineup from the established OEMs...

    Those are different segments again though and are even more competitive than the sports car market. Certainly are now-a-days anyway.

    The problem as I see it in that segment is the vast majority of individuals who just want a car that looks good with a good badge won't look twice at a Ford. Because it's a Ford. Whether that's right or wrong is moot, but the data certainly suggests that the individuals who want a particular type of car for £x and fit into a certain segment are thin on the ground. How many people buy an RR or RRS because it is the best offroader on the market and not because it's a big ass SUV with a Range Rover badge on the front and makes them look imposing and rich on the road? I'd wager confidently that number is teeny tiny. The Evoque has seen other marques in the premium segment clamouring for market position and Evoque sales have done anything but slow down with all the new arrivals!

    Market pressure is why there is no manual GT3 in the current 911, manual versions of performance cars are getting thinner on the ground by MY and petrol heads constantly moan that there are "no cars which cater for our wants". They are a minority. Just as, unfortunately, JW is with his requirements.

    Those people will buy a Mustang. All the other will buy the blingy one with the smart badge attached to it.
    Last edited by zeppelin101; 05-12-2013 at 14:28.

  8. #68
    Member R3K1355's Avatar
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    Yea but that might work well in the Mustang buyers favour.

    To get badge snobs to buy their car they are going to have to come in much lower than the established competition.

  9. #69
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    Badge snobbery is great as it lets us buy great cars for less price
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
    2010 - on : 2007 RX8 PZ
    1998 - 2004 : 1991 S13

  10. #70
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    Funny how the Ford GT sold out before it even went on sale, yes numbers were low but i dont think many people said 'errgghhh its a Ford'

    The Mustang isnt any old Ford, its not a Probe or a Cougar, its a full on Icon and I think there are going to be plenty of people buying them and not just petroheads. There is literally nothing in its segment for similar money, I guess the nearest is the 370z.
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  11. #71
    Guest zeppelin101's Avatar
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    How many GTs were to be sold though? There is the rarity factor to take into account there as well which would have had all the collectors foaming.

    You might be right, but I don't think it will keep sports car manufacturers awake at night. BMW might be concerned about the 4 series though, which hasn't exactly been well received in the "fun" department...

  12. #72
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    You don't say "I drive a Ford Mustang", you say "I drive a Mustang".

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    You don't say "I drive a Ford Mustang", you say "I drive a Mustang".
    And everyone thats buys one thinks they are Steve McQueen
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  14. #74
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    More details and specs here

    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...4xBXjM.twitter

    the 2.3T has forged rods and steel crank so that should help with tuning. LSD is also standard
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

  15. #75
    Oor Willy sideways14a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    Poor people should have their driving licences taken off them completely so they can't clog up the road with their nasty Vauxhall Agilas
    This x a googleplex...

    And while we are at it, thse peasants with non BMW's (or BM's with puny engines) can get the fook out of my lane...

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    This x a googleplex...

    And while we are at it, thse peasants with non BMW's (or BM's with puny engines) can get the fook out of my lane...
    BMWs and Audis should have a special lane with no speed restrictions....














    ... and brick walls built across them at random intervals with no signage.

  17. #77
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    I like it. I just hope they depreciate enough so I can afford one! LSD as standard is a winner, so is forged rods

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppelin101 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Wilkinson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Idont forget Nissan originally went after E36 buyers with the 14a
    Maybe not the best historical reference given the 14a was a relative sales flop
    Which worked out real well for them - how much was Nissan outsold by?
    Shift expectations, shift ....

    WELL YOU ARE ALL WRONG.

    If you throw away all the 4 doors and the estates. Then eliminate all the underpowered models that couldn't keep up (320/325 etc) that leaves the BMW 328i coupé as the S14 competition.

    Peak was 3352 in 2000, maybe 3400-3500 sold.
    http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/bmw_328i_coupe

    Nissan sold about 4500 S14. So the S14 WAS the sales winner.
    To get the same spec the BMW was over £30K v's S14 £23K.
    http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.p...=1#post6458707

    That photo shows the clear and distinct difference between a 2 door saloon and a sports coupé. Unless you are too blind to spot the S14 is over 3" lower than the BMW and matches height with a 911.

    The BMW is a 2 DOOR SALOON and the S14 is a proper 2+2 sports coupé they aren't really in the same market segment. Never mind the 1395Kg v's 1270Kg, the BMW was hauling 2 extra passenger around all the time but with 190bhp had less poke to do it with. At 136bhp/ton the 328i coupé 0-60mph wasn't even on par with a 144bhp/ton RS13 let alone the 155bhp/ton S14.

    With a FBU the S14 could take on low end 240bhp M3 which weighed 1440Kg (166bhp/ton), was still 2" taller than S14 and still really a 2 door saloon.
    http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...ar/?car=225698

    BMW have NEVER made a 2+2 sports coupé, they only make 2 door saloons. All BMW "sports" cars are pure 2 seater only. It's something they just don't get but Porsche clearly do understand what a sports coupé is. They must have spent a fortune getting the roof of latest 911 back below 51" from the 51.6" it had grown to. Not being able the see the top of the 911's roof though a BMW coupés windows clearly hurt and offended them. Just as much as more than 6" flank above the front wheel would hurt and offend the eye of Sir William Lyons at Jaguar.
    Last edited by skyshack; 06-12-2013 at 09:45. Reason: 1440kg NOT 14440kg

  19. #79
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    Don't understand the excitement. Bloated, fussy design, predictably awful interior, fake rear diffuser

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhassall View Post
    Don't understand the excitement. Bloated, fussy design, predictably awful interior, fake rear diffuser
    Yer because the Japs are just awesome at interiors
    Quote Originally Posted by silverzx View Post
    I like Mark, he seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slip_n_slide View Post
    Mark is right.

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