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Thread: Alignment advice from people who know what they are talking about :)

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    Alignment advice from people who know what they are talking about :)

    Ok,
    Long story short, girlfriend went cross country a few months ago after coming out of a roundabout too fast - she bent the font alloy and broke the rear and front passenger side arms. No body damage and no chassie damage.

    I saw this as a great opportunity to upgrade the suspension - I went for



    • KYB AGX shocks ( really happy with them) Adjustments make a big difference

    • Apex Spring ( not happy with it - find it bottoms out too quickly going to get eibach prokit in a few weeks)

    • Polybushed the whole car with Powerflex ( expensive but I don't like to cut corners wrt to price )


    now as you can imagine I've pumped in quite a bit of cash however I'm still not happy with the car.. Handling has improved dramatically - apex springs are a bit harsh but before I invest anymore I need to fix the following issue.

    I find that the car pulls to the left - it's not a massive pull but I notice it and it gets on my tits. I want the car to be perfect.

    Anyhow I took the car for a full alignment and this is the result ( after the alignment)
    Anyone able to make any sense of this?
    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

    Now I can easily get adjustable arms or a go for the coilovers however I don't want to work around the problem - I want to fix it first.

    I've had the subframe out looks ok, I've a feeling the guys in the alignment had no clue what they were doing.

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    Guest Philz0r's Avatar
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    Eibach stopped producing for the sx. I couldnt get a hold of a new set and gave up. I also run kyb's and apex springs.

    Going coilovers next year tho.

    I needed rear camber arms, toe arms and front camber shims for my car to be set up.
    Last edited by Philz0r; 31-01-2013 at 13:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philz0r View Post
    Eibach stopped producing for the sx. I couldnt get a hold of a new set and gave up. I also run kyb's and apex springs.

    Going coilovers next year tho.

    I needed rear camber arms, toe arms and front camber shims for my car to be set up.
    So you are saying that the drop had a lot do to with the issue of the alignment? It was only 30 mm drop though - Horsham said they can get me the eibach springs - and they are advertised on apexperformance also.

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    Guest Philz0r's Avatar
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    Ahh apex, i tried japspeed and when they came to order from manufacturer they said they dont make sx anymore.

    Japspeed were great and gave a full refund +10% off next order but still advertise for some reason.

    When doing anything to suspension your knocking the alignment out so that would have a massive impact.

    By looking at your print out your running pretty deep camber on the rear, surely you can notice it by looking so your toe will also be out

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    Guest stu_'s Avatar
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    You have toe in on one side at the rear and a lot of camber. Then on the front your caster and camber vary a lot from side to side.

    Did the guys who did the alignment say anything about it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philz0r View Post
    Ahh apex, i tried japspeed and when they came to order from manufacturer they said they dont make sx anymore.

    Japspeed were great and gave a full refund +10% off next order but still advertise for some reason.

    When doing anything to suspension your knocking the alignment out so that would have a massive impact.

    By looking at your print out your running pretty deep camber on the rear, surely you can notice it by looking so your toe will also be out
    They said they adjusted it as far as it could go and then basically said they thought the subframe is bent, however it was taken out we looked at it and it. It looked completely fine. I've booked the car in for another alignment in a different place will stay with them as they do it and try pinpoint the issue. I've a feeling the guys just didnt know what they were doing. The guy was very young..

    Problem is I've paid the money to get all the bushes done so I'm not that excited about having to get a new subframe and lose all the money invested in the subframe.

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    wrt to the front caster being out they kinda said that thats just down to the how the car is - i.e. they couldnt adjust it. I just feel like they had no clue.
    Quote Originally Posted by stu_ View Post
    You have toe in on one side at the rear and a lot of camber. Then on the front your caster and camber vary a lot from side to side.

    Did the guys who did the alignment say anything about it?

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    Guest Philz0r's Avatar
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    Get what ive got, adjustable rear camber + toe and front camber shims.

    You've got the same set up as me and i needed them so chances are you need them too.

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    IIRC there isn't front caster adjustment on stock suspension.

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    Guest bolf's Avatar
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    Fit posh tension rods and adjust the caster , it will drive much nicer anyway!

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    Guest dave_harman1990's Avatar
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    Where did u take the vehicle? And wat system did they use do u know? I work for a company always dealing with alignments and one big point ill make is if the system and ramps not calibrated regularly the readings can sometimes be inaccurate. Also at times if a gauge isnt placed on the wheel correctly it can also give inaccurate readings when rolling the car forward and backwards.

    May be pointless words but if ur certain the sub frames not bent and nothing else is worn or bent then could just be a case that the system or gauge was giving slightly different readings and that ur casters are actually fine.

    Through my experience whenever adjusting camber and caster its always a good idea to re-compensate the vehicle before adjusting thetoe so u know ur readings are correct and havent changed, assuming the garage are willing to take the time to do so.

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    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    I personally dont think you would be able to see subframe damage that caused minutes of difference to alignment settings, they might be right. Caster needs adjustable tension arm bushes. TBH your adjustment is limited without topmounts anyway .......... might eb worth considering if you want it spot on
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    Guest FireStorm's Avatar
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    Adjustable rear Camber arms, traction rods and possibly rear toe arms.

    This will resolve all of your issues when its next aligned.

    Front camber isnt ideal but i dont think its causing ur issue.

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    Guest dave_harman1990's Avatar
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    Yeah id say first step which would be best is take both front tensions arms off and measure them up with each other. Lay them on top of each other and check for any out of shape-ness.

    That would sort the front. With the rear definitely adjustable arms.
    Last edited by dave_harman1990; 31-01-2013 at 16:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave_harman1990 View Post

    Through my experience whenever adjusting camber and caster its always a good idea to re-compensate the vehicle before adjusting thetoe so u know ur readings are correct and havent changed, assuming the garage are willing to take the time to do so.
    What do you mean re-compensate? Roll it back then forward or something else?

    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    I personally dont think you would be able to see subframe damage that caused minutes of difference to alignment settings, they might be right.
    I agree, at the very least get the measuring tape out, might still not be enough but a dam sight more accurate at finding bent bits by eye balling.
    Last edited by immy21; 31-01-2013 at 17:44.

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    Guest dave_harman1990's Avatar
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    Yeah with most modern systems u have to compensate the vehicle. Basically u start off with putting the gauges on, the system does the laser bit to see the angles they are all sat at, then u roll it forward and it measures the movement on the roll, some systems need to be rolled bak too which makes it more accurate id say. Because a lot of systems are so precise now re compensatin can only do good for the readings.

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    It says in the manual to not roll it back, only ever forward. Only saying that cos I read it the other day whilst scrolling through! Mine has always pulled to the left. Going to take it in soon and see what mine looks like. I have kyb's and tein 30mm springs.

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    Guest immy21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlos28 View Post
    It says in the manual to not roll it back, only ever forward. Only saying that cos I read it the other day whilst scrolling through! Mine has always pulled to the left. Going to take it in soon and see what mine looks like. I have kyb's and tein 30mm springs.
    Kinda have to in reality though. The manual just states roll forward for 5m initially iirc, then roll forward a bit each time after adjusting to check again which isn't really possible most of the time.

    What I found was rolling it a bit back then forward was accurate and repeatable but had to be roll forward at least a little for toe not to be wonky. This is with polybushes and everything else fairly young.

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    Guest dave_harman1990's Avatar
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    As far as im aware none need rolling bak. I meant start by rolling forward then rolling bak to its original position. Every company do it different though. Out of all machines my preferred is the john bean. Most accurate and less problems.

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    Yeh it's one of those things where no one will ever really know or it will never really matter enough I reckon. Anyone know of any good laser alignment places near Manchester!?

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