1998 Mini Cooper. Strip to the shell rebuild

[M.D.]

looking at your last weld it looks like your in the right track, from here all you can do is practice, welding is like handwriting, the more you do it the neater you will get. practice practice practice, and with a mini you will be getting plenty of that lol. you welds are also showing sighns of having the gas up too high, dips in the middle like that can also be caused by the wire feed being a little low.

to make life easier just use argoshield and make sure the panels are dead clean and free from any paint or rust, the black paint on pannels is a bitch to weld through too so make sure you clean it off and use weld through primer.

[Jonny Wilkinson]

...and use weld through primer.

This is what I am using on all the parts I am welding on to my S13.

BH Etchweld. Its like Electrox that you can weld over.

http://www.bilthamber.com/etchweld

[Petrol]

looking at your last weld it looks like your in the right track, from here all you can do is practice, welding is like handwriting, the more you do it the neater you will get. practice practice practice, and with a mini you will be getting plenty of that lol. you welds are also showing sighns of having the gas up too high, dips in the middle like that can also be caused by the wire feed being a little low.

to make life easier just use argoshield and make sure the panels are dead clean and free from any paint or rust, the black paint on pannels is a bitch to weld through too so make sure you clean it off and use weld through primer.

Thanks M.D. I didn't know how much gas to use and ended up turning the wick up a bit just to be on the safe side. I guess too much is as bad as not enough. Rather then pulse weld on long runs (that's a load of spot welds) I am going to try short stitches of say 1/2" I'm just glad I bought the spot welder so I can keep the mig welding to a minimum. Mig welding is a skill I can't seem to grasp. As you say though with the amount of welding this thing will need, I will be good at it by the end

This is what I am using on all the parts I am welding on to my S13.

BH Etchweld. Its like Electrox that you can weld over.

http://www.bilthamber.com/etchweld

I am also using BH Etchweld. Don't forget though that when you weld the paint still burns off. If you can get some Electrox in there after it's welded then it will help a lot. I will post more info on this when I weld the bonnet lip on. Hopefully this will be done in a couple of days, weather permitting.

It's worth mentioning the amount of carbon deposits I am finding on this shell. I touched on it on my S14 rebuild but because this is a worse case, there's 1000X more of it. This is what it looks like



It seems the rust has gone but the black deposits are carbon. Mild steel has carbon in it to increase it's strength and as the steel corrodes, the carbon, being an element goes back to it's natural state. Carbon is really tough as we all know and tough means difficult to remove. The problem is, behind this carbon is more rust so it has to come out. I have tried everything but so far the best methods have been a very small wire brush in a drill. Small brush = more pressure



Deox also removes it but it takes about 3 - 4 days. It's also important to remove the cling film every 12 hours or so and scrub it. I use a toothbrush. This area is work in progress but you can see how the Deox is removing the carbon and the rust behind it

[-ghost-]

On the rust I've been using a screw driver to scrap/scratch the rusty area then put a folded piece of kitchen roll soaked in vinegar then leave it for 2-48 hours treat it a bit like deox-gel I just wrap it to stop it drying out. If its bad rust I take the kitchen roll off ever few hours and give it a quick wire brush by hand then replace it. To get it off I first wire brush it then give it a good scrub with clean water.

You must neutralise the acid tho as it will start rusting in a hour or so after you cleaned it away baking soda seems to do this without much hassle

I gave up with deox-gel after I tried the vinegar due to the cost of not getting very far with the gel. If the area is hard to get toor has lots of seems I still use deox. The vinegar seems to be as good as deox if not a little faster and not as messy and easier(unless you get it in a cut or eye).

I've welded, used etch weld and electrox over the areas that have had vinegar and baking soda on and had no reactions somes areas been painted about 3 months now.

Tho lately if a good wire brush don't get it off it gets cut out and replaced anyway

I'm sure you know a lot more about it than me.

[The Roadie]

that's annoying, want to build a mini at some point but was hoping you could just buy a completely rust proofed shell off the shelf

Well you can, in a manner of speaking;
Search for Domino Pimlico, Towns Pheonix, Mini Jem or Mini Marcos !!

The massive plus to classic Minis is that the panels are very cheap and readily available. If you keep it clean and keep spraying rustproofing stuff around periodically they last. They aren't as bad as a lot of old cars. Plenty of early Minis still driving around.

[M.D.]

As regards to the too much gas reply. Yes too much can also be bad. Not as bad as no gas but still bad. You get what's called a "cold weld" and it becomes hard among other things.

[Petrol]

Thanks MD

Leaking windscreen seal resulted in a corroded scuttle, bulkhead and dash top rail



Got the complete assembly from a local Mini enthusiast



Split it down



Used masking tape to mark the cut along the bulkhead. easier to see than a pencil mark



Repair section held on with intergrips. This ensured the right angle and are great for sheet metal butt welds



Sanded back with a flap wheel in the angle grinder, didn't take much off to keep it strong



NS inner wing being sorted, quite a bit of work involved here as it's treble skinned in places



Every seam will be split like this. Shot blasting gets rid of the rust then it's a good dose of Electrox



Inner wing ready for primer



Thanks for looking

[Petrol]

On it's side



Bit easier to replace the inner & outer sill



It's not as bad as I thought



Going to cut the lot out and replace with new

[The Roadie]

Looks familiar to mee!!

Not too bad, seen al ot of Minis in far worse condition. Loving this project thread!

[Yakko]

Great thread.

I had two Minis, a City E and a 1.3i Cooper Sports Pack (which I tripple rolled ).

I'd love another one as a toy one day.

[arry]

Somehow missed this thread up to now! Bloody hell Pete, that's a bit of a project there I think I'd have scrapped it

Nice work mate

[mattpayne]

Somehow missed this thread up to now! Bloody hell Pete, that's a bit of a project there I think I'd have scrapped it

Nice work mate

I cant believe that a car as new as this is as rusty as it is... it looked alright on the first pic!

Amazing work going on :

[BWanderers]

But, - if you bring this one back to life, you should take up a Medical Profession, they need miracle workers who can 'lay hands on' & perform impossible Resus!

I would have given up ages ago.
Honours.

R.

[Petrol]

I paid £2,400 for this pile O' rust It's also newer than my S14a

I got to the bottom of why the later ones rot so fast though. Modern cars are designed for an E Coating process which goes a bit like this.

Bare metal shell is spot welded up. As soon as you weld you have rust due to the heat.
Shell is dipped in acid to remove rust
Dipped in rinse tank to get rid of the acid
E Coated - this is a process where an electrical charge is applied to the shell resulting in the deposit of a protective film.

Some manufacturers even rotate the car in the tanks to ensure all air escapes and complete coverage. The problem with Mini's is that it's a 1950's design and has very wide seams. The bottom line is the E coat process doesn't work properly. My guess is they went straight from shell assembly to the coating tank. The result is rust around every spot weld. Add to that a severe lack of paint, box section wax and the result is a lifespan of 10 years.

On the + side, panels are relatively cheap so it's not going to cost mega wonga. I'm not really bothered how long it takes me as long as it's right when it's done

[Petrol]

Went to Minisport today and there was an "average condition" late Min for sale at 9 Grand. FFS! The interesting thing is, if I put either of my 200's on their dyno, they would blow it up The SX is so under rated and under valued, it's such a shame Anyhow I bought this complete boot floor section for £200.

[Jonny Wilkinson]

Panel availability 200 owners can only dream of

[Chriscooke]

Great work as always, genuinely didn't realise late minis had so many issues

[-ghost-]

I wish we could get replacement panels for the datsuns would make repairing so much easier

[Petrol]

Lack of protection in seams and spot welds is the main problem. It's a good job that panels are available otherwise it would be an absolute nightmare to restore. This car is newer than my S14 which has not been welded. I am going to have to replace about 50% of the shell on the Mini

New ns inner sill



Door step



I bought a spot welder to make life a bit easier....



Dash was walnut and looked out of place for me. It also had walnut cappings on the top of the doors. I am ditching these and going for the original painted body look. Dash will be gloss black with carbon wrapped clock mount and glovebox lid. inspired from my S14 rocker cover

[The Roadie]

Bare metal shell is spot welded up. As soon as you weld you have rust due to the heat.
Shell is dipped in acid to remove rust
Dipped in rinse tank to get rid of the acid
E Coated - this is a process where an electrical charge is applied to the shell resulting in the deposit of a protective film.

Some manufacturers even rotate the car in the tanks to ensure all air escapes and complete coverage. The problem with Mini's is that it's a 1950's design and has very wide seams. The bottom line is the E coat process doesn't work properly. My guess is they went straight from shell assembly to the coating tank. The result is rust around every spot weld. Add to that a severe lack of paint, box section wax and the result is a lifespan of 10 years.

On the + side, panels are relatively cheap so it's not going to cost mega wonga. I'm not really bothered how long it takes me as long as it's right when it's done

Yeah only the individual panels on later Minis were ever coated. Hence they all rust at the seams. Watch some videos on YouTube about Mini production, there some from 1959,1989 and the end of production in 2000 and you see that they are virtually handbuilt. It's amazing that they actually last as well as they do!!!

As you say, the saving grace is that panels are readily available and very cheap. The best panels that you could get IMO were BMH ones, before MG Rover went bust. They were E coated and fitted much better. I crashed my Mini not long after putting a new front end on it in 2006. I couldn't afford to put it right straight away, so I pulled it straight and drove it for 6 months with bare metal on the wings for about 4 months and they didn't rust!

They would be the best car ever if they didn't rust! I haven't driven mine since November and it looks as if I won't get around to restoring it any time soon. I just don't have the time or space at the moment.

Keep up the great work Petrol, great to see the progress!