Warning: Adrian flux cancellations

[Ghazoobe]

then something is wrong. i'm less than 300 for my 200

well no insurance company has ever felt like telling me what is wrong and tbh it can be really annoying that other people like you are able to get insurance that cheap as the cheapest I have ever been able to insure (a standard) 200sx for is around £850

[Mark]

Out of interest Arry and Mark, whats your insurance cost you?

The BM is £410, the Mondeo £450 (yer I couldnt work that out either ) and the Landy is about £300 IIRC but i dont earn any NCB off that as its a greenlaning policy. I was paying around £600 for the S14a. All of those are with me and Dani as named drivers.

The most I have ever paid for insurance was £800 when i was 22 on my 1.6i Orion

[M.D.]

To be honest all this "insurance companies run at a loss". Or even a break even tbh. Seems utter utter bull crap.
If that was actually the case then why are there so many insurance companies out there???

And why have they been running for so long? Are the bosses of these companies held at gunpoint by the government to keep trading? Because I'm no business man but if my company had a chunk of it that was running at a loss every day I'm dam sure I know what I'd be doing with that part of the company.

These insurance companies are quick to tell you that they are running at a loss but if you look into what a loss actually means. I bet the bosses still get several hundred thousand wages every year.

[Mark]

And why have they been running for so long? Are the bosses of these companies held at gunpoint by the government to keep trading? Because I'm no business man but if my company had a chunk of it that was running at a loss every day I'm dam sure I know what I'd be doing with that part of the company.

Its called loss leaders, supermarkets do it as well They make a loss/break even on some of their offers to get you in the store buying the stuff they make money on

With insurance companies things like car insurance are big business as its what most of us use insurance for so they get the most advertising from it in a hope you will then have their home/pet/travel/etc etc insurance as well.

[Ghazoobe]

The BM is £410, the Mondeo £450 (yer I couldnt work that out either ) and the Landy is about £300 IIRC but i dont earn any NCB off that as its a greenlaning policy. I was paying around £600 for the S14a. All of those are with me and Dani as named drivers.

The most I have ever paid for insurance was £800 when i was 22 on my 1.6i Orion

They defo don't like mondeos do they

[arry]

To be honest all this "insurance companies run at a loss". Or even a break even tbh. Seems utter utter bull crap.
If that was actually the case then why are there so many insurance companies out there???

And why have they been running for so long? Are the bosses of these companies held at gunpoint by the government to keep trading? Because I'm no business man but if my company had a chunk of it that was running at a loss every day I'm dam sure I know what I'd be doing with that part of the company.

These insurance companies are quick to tell you that they are running at a loss but if you look into what a loss actually means. I bet the bosses still get several hundred thousand wages every year.

Fairly uninformed view there fella, really.

It's a long term game, you can't enter the insurance market for 5 minutes when the going's good, then get out again, and then go back in and expect to get market share. You ride out the bad times to offset them with the good times. An insurer's COR model basically works that profit is received at 5% - so for every £100 taken in, £5 of it is all that doesn't go back out. It's not really mahoosive numbers in terms of %, but if you've got a large market share, you can make big numbers because 5% of a big number is a big number. It's actually all down to a very complicated competition piece called the underwriting cycle. TL/DR would be the phrase of the day if I had to explain it.

Of course the bosses still get big salaries - the largest General Insurers in the UK are some of the largest companies on the stock market. What do you think bosses get paid to take multi million pound decisions every day and live or die by them? I bet the doctor that misdiagnosed and mistreated my nan last week gets paid lots of money too - but I haven't seen a GP turn in a profit of £422m for the NHS this year. Capitalism's a bitch isn't it.

[craiglancs]

well no insurance company has ever felt like telling me what is wrong and tbh it can be really annoying that other people like you are able to get insurance that cheap as the cheapest I have ever been able to insure (a standard) 200sx for is around £850

Ghazoobe i feel your pain there! Age 29 i am, 9yrs ncb, and last year i was paying 800, year before was about the same, prob 1000 the year before that

This year it has absolutely shocked me that it has dropped to 520, but should i really be happy at 29 with £520? Me thinks not!!

[M.D.]

Fairly uninformed view there fella, really.

It's a long term game, you can't enter the insurance market for 5 minutes when the going's good, then get out again, and then go back in and expect to get market share. You ride out the bad times to offset them with the good times. An insurer's COR model basically works that profit is received at 5% - so for every £100 taken in, £5 of it is all that doesn't go back out. It's not really mahoosive numbers in terms of %, but if you've got a large market share, you can make big numbers because 5% of a big number is a big number. It's actually all down to a very complicated competition piece called the underwriting cycle. TL/DR would be the phrase of the day if I had to explain it.

Of course the bosses still get big salaries - the largest General Insurers in the UK are some of the largest companies on the stock market. What do you think bosses get paid to take multi million pound decisions every day and live or die by them? I bet the doctor that misdiagnosed and mistreated my nan last week gets paid lots of money too - but I haven't seen a GP turn in a profit of £422m for the NHS this year. Capitalism's a bitch isn't it.

What your saying there is that 5% of 100 is not going back out.
That's making a profit isn't it? In which case. There strait away the companies are making a profit and not running at a loss like they say they are.

Like I say. I'm no business man. But running at a loss as they like to lead you to believe. For over 5 years really doesn't seem like a good business venture even for a multi billion pound industry.

All that aside. As personally I'm always going to struggle to believe insurance companies are running at a loss.
The biggest problem as far as I'm concerned is people claiming for things that don't really exist. Like whiplash when having a bump in heavy traffic at 5 mph.
These are the issues that need sorting for the insurance costs to stand a chance of dropping.

I'm one of the millions of people that have in my case over the 12 years I've been driving have paid insurance companies over £12,000 so far. And I have claimed back a big fat £0. My parents have been driving for a darn sight longer than I have. And they have claimed that huge figure of £0 back too.
I'm not alone in thinking that this must be the case for more than a small percentage of the total people who have car insurance too.

[arry]

What your saying there is that 5% of 100 is not going back out.
That's making a profit isn't it? In which case. There strait away the companies are making a profit and not running at a loss like they say they are.

But I didn't say they were making a 95% COR, COR on motor has just this year dipped below 100% for a couple of insurers. In 2006/07 you could operate to 103% COR and still turn a profit because the investment income made on the premium was so high, but nowadays where there's no interest rate, you make very little on it, so getting closer to 95% COR on an underwriting result is important - otherwise you may as well just put the capital you're holding in an ISA.

Like I say. I'm no business man. But running at a loss as they like to lead you to believe. For over 5 years really doesn't seem like a good business venture even for a multi billion pound industry.

Motor has been at a loss, home is doing ok, as was travel until volcanic ash screwed it all up. Motor's the biggest. You don't give up a multi million pound industry just because it's having a low ebb, you ride it out.

All that aside. As personally I'm always going to struggle to believe insurance companies are running at a loss.

These companies operate on the stock market. You can view their results whenever you please. If you're saying that the shareholders reports are all lies then that's a totally different conversation really.

The biggest problem as far as I'm concerned is people claiming for things that don't really exist. Like whiplash when having a bump in heavy traffic at 5 mph.
These are the issues that need sorting for the insurance costs to stand a chance of dropping.

Correct. It's one of the reasons I find it particularly hilarious when someone says 'they wanna charge me £1000 for insurance on a £300 car!'. That £300 car can carry 4 x £1m+ passengers.

I'm one of the millions of people that have in my case over the 12 years I've been driving have paid insurance companies over £12,000 so far. And I have claimed back a big fat £0. My parents have been driving for a darn sight longer than I have. And they have claimed that huge figure of £0 back too.
I'm not alone in thinking that this must be the case for more than a small percentage of the total people who have car insurance too.

I'm one of those too. But now let's think about your £12k and how far that goes - £12k minus 15% commission = £10,200. Take operating expenses at 10% = £9,000. Take reinsurance at 10% = £7,800. How much damage do you think you'd have to do to someone's car these days to cost an insurer £7,800? That's before we consider any profit, and before we consider any bodily injury. Are you telling me you've never had a close call to something which would have properly financially hurt if it wasn't for a bit of luck? I can recall a number of close calls I've had.

You need the people who have claimed back nothing to fund for the bloke that parks his car on the tracks at Selby. Unfortunately, whilst you think you've never used your insurance, you have - because it's a protection against your liability should fate have it that you do the same one day. And ultimately we've all got a chance of having a big one, one day.

[59bhp]

But I didn't say they were making a 95% COR, COR on motor has just this year dipped below 100% for a couple of insurers. In 2006/07 you could operate to 103% COR and still turn a profit because the investment income made on the premium was so high, but nowadays where there's no interest rate, you make very little on it, so getting closer to 95% COR on an underwriting result is important - otherwise you may as well just put the capital you're holding in an ISA.



Motor has been at a loss, home is doing ok, as was travel until volcanic ash screwed it all up. Motor's the biggest. You don't give up a multi million pound industry just because it's having a low ebb, you ride it out.



These companies operate on the stock market. You can view their results whenever you please. If you're saying that the shareholders reports are all lies then that's a totally different conversation really.



Correct. It's one of the reasons I find it particularly hilarious when someone says 'they wanna charge me £1000 for insurance on a £300 car!'. That £300 car can carry 4 x £1m+ passengers.



I'm one of those too. But now let's think about your £12k and how far that goes - £12k minus 15% commission = £10,200. Take operating expenses at 10% = £9,000. Take reinsurance at 10% = £7,800. How much damage do you think you'd have to do to someone's car these days to cost an insurer £7,800? That's before we consider any profit, and before we consider any bodily injury. Are you telling me you've never had a close call to something which would have properly financially hurt if it wasn't for a bit of luck? I can recall a number of close calls I've had.

You need the people who have claimed back nothing to fund for the bloke that parks his car on the tracks at Selby. Unfortunately, whilst you think you've never used your insurance, you have - because it's a protection against your liability should fate have it that you do the same one day. And ultimately we've all got a chance of having a big one, one day.

I really admire your effort bud, I would of given up long, long ago

I know enough, to know I understand very little about large, complex, subjects such as this, (world economy, middle eastern war, stock markets, goverments etc) without being heavily involved in the industry the particular subject is in. However I also know that things like this are NEVER black and white and that researching them enough to have a valid, informed opinion would be a)boring and b)very time consuming.

so instead I just cram a sock in it about things I know nothing about (this isn't a dig at anyone by the way) until I happen upon some information like this, which, is in fact, quite interesting

it must be very wearing trying to justify to the general public why you aren't the worst thing that existed since hitler (as I'm sure bankers, politicians etc have to)

you have my sympathies

[Johnny]

How much damage do you think you'd have to do to someone's car these days to cost an insurer £7,800?

Break 10 windscreens

OR

if you didnt go through insurance you could break 25 windscreens


So what I want to know is why do insurance companies let themselves be ripped off so much by repair companies ? ie :-

Windscreen cost through Insurance approved Autoglass = £780
windscreen cost through local company not doing work for insurance company = £280

Respray front bumper through Insurance approved spray company = £2500
Respray front bumper through local reputable body shop =£400

Why do insurance companies let themselves get totally ripped off by companies ? ... I swear they could cut 25% of costs if when Autoglass say to them thats £1k they say, fcuk off, it can be done for £400 elsewhere

[M.D.]

Just to add to that little list.

Whiplash. £12,000.!!!!!

And in contrast. My misses made a claim recently. Not on car insurance but another sort. And only got £1000 for nearly being killed by carbon monoxide poisoning.!!!

The car insurance industry just seems to love throwing money around. Our money!!

[nitrodave]

Why do insurance companies let themselves get totally ripped off by companies ? ...

This is so true, some simple changes could make a big difference

[Ghazoobe]

Professional indemnity and public liability insurance for £1m cost me £180 for a year for my company, bit different to car insurance

[Petrol]

Interesting read. What frustrates me with insurance companies is they don’t reward loyalty. This goes for car and house insurance. When it’s due for renewal, you have to go online and trawl through the usual to get a good deal.

I can understand why car premiums are as high as they are though, the bottom line is most people have no idea how to drive safely. You see it every day – on the phone, not paying attention, those in a rush (going nowhere) the bully’s etc etc. Ever tried buying a 5 year old car that’s not been damaged / repaired? I did and failed. Says it all really

As far as AF goes they have served me well over the 20 years I have dealt with them.
I can understand your frustration DeanS15 though. I cancelled a policy on a Clio and lost most of my money with over 6 months to go. It’s the way of the world

[Kieran O'Quick]

I'm older now so it doesn't effect me buuuut:

Why does a 17 year old have to pay to cover some old rich man's over-priced wing and headlight? Surely if you choose to drive around dangling delicate, expensive materials about then that's your problem. Limit non-injury accident repair to 10,000.

Or put it another way - If you walked around festooned in Faberge eggs do you expect someone else to pay for them when you have a bump?

[Kieran O'Quick]

And while I'm at it -

Why don't they teach driving in school ?- Christ, I'm sitting here pickling my liver but I will still clean my teeth before going to bed because they rammed it home to me at about 7 years old..

[stacky]

Just got off the phone to Adrian flux 7 weeks after starting a new policy with them for my type r....

I think people on here need to be aware that if you pay in full for your policy and then have to cancel for any reason down the line, it will cost a fortune. My policy cost 630-00 7 weeks ago and they will only offer 254-86 back despite having insured multiple cars with them for 7 years, always paid in full, never claimed and still have another car insured with them....
Honestly, after all the thousands they've had out of me over the years I cannot believe this is how they treat thier customers. I've recommended friends to them and sang thier praises in the past, but I can honestly say I think what they are doing is a disgrace....

Totally feel your pain mate. I had a very similar situation with SKY Insurance just over 6 months into my policy..... but i was paying monthly installments. The cancellation fee was stupidly ott. No win situation....

[StuartUK]

And while I'm at it -

Why don't they teach driving in school ?- Christ, I'm sitting here pickling my liver but I will still clean my teeth before going to bed because they rammed it home to me at about 7 years old..

If they taught at skool, then that would mean those that come to take lessons, eventually pass there test, get a car and drive from A to B like normal people, would have road manners, understand the highway code, understand road markings/signs/lane manners, etc etc etc
Thats more a fantasy......

Common is a lot of div's dont give a f**k, and drive thinking they own the road, mess up, claim, or make a BS claim, making the rest of us pay more, etc etc....
and yes, i am with A flux, but not in a cancel scenerio, just joining the thread

[DeanS15]

Maybe I did give a bit of a knee jerk reaction and was pissed at flux for the unreasonable charge but at the end of the day the charge is unreasonable, whether written down or not.... They've probably had about 6k out of me innpremiums over the years for various and multiple cars, never claimed so that's money in the bank for them lol