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Thread: Locost + sr20det = win

  1. #81
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    Jon I had to cut the long bar which is the same as the side for the rack shown in your picture (already missing on yours?) - I also had to take out the top bar of the box section to fit the gearbox in but I did seat the engine / box as far back as possible. I also did not want to cut anything out which would add flex and weakness to the chassis, to get around this I fabricated some beefy engine mount brackets which tied the chassis back in and I also solid mounted the engine and box putting strength back in and its as stiff as ever

    I am going to put a bit more cage in for the pax side as it was a race car before and never needed, may add a few plates if possible also in any key areas but its over kill now

    Oh I did also have to take out a vertical bar in the tunnel also to allow the box in - my chassis will be a chunk smaller than yours so you maybe ok

    DG

  2. #82
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    Thanks for that Duncan, I only have the one diagonal bar on mine but if I can I will put them on both sides modified slightly. I was hoping to add a brace between the engine mount points between the sump and gearbox if there is room to turbot together.
    I am going to shave a load off of the gearbox to give as much clearance as possible.
    I am still undecided whether to solid mount the engine. Have you gone metal to metal or just very tough rubber?

  3. #83
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    Metal to metal, think I habe some early pics of the mounts so will email you them if it helps

    DG

  4. #84
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    Re mounting the engine, ive seen a couple of Westys on the hillclimb scene, that use a plate between engine and gearbox and then bolt to bulkeaad/tunnel. Along witb solid engine mounts and gearox tail end mounts this metbod essentially makes the engine/box a semi stressed memeber like in a single seater. Whilst it will add stiffness, ill make tbe chassis 'buzzy' and potentially 'orrible for a journey.

    Alternatively, you could create an over the top engine cradle. This is usually a web of triangulated small diammete tubes all welded togther which then bolts over the engine bay to the upper chassis rails. Would make very stiff but has to be removable to allow the engine and box out of course. I have pics of some clubmans cars somewhere with ghis style of brace if you need them?

    CNH

  5. #85
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    Thanks CNH, So would it be better not to use the standard mount points then. I'm not sure what you mean by a cradle so if you have any pics that would be good.

    I think the engine/gearbox will be slightly forward from the tunnel so might be tricky to make a mount there if that's what you meant?

  6. #86
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    dbl post
    Last edited by CNHSS1; 05-12-2012 at 12:32. Reason: dbl post

  7. #87
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    no the box to block plate is 'as well as', mainly to stiffen the chassis. Im looking for a good pic but cant find on laptop or pc, must be on a memory stick, will put it up if i can find it.

    re the over engine frame, see below for inspiration.




    same idea but not above the engine






    but this is the best one that explains the idea as its a 7type clubmans chassis



  8. #88
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    saw your post on LCB Jon, the point to note is 'like a semi stressed member'.
    An engine as a stressed member carries the rear suspension loads hung off a gearbox and the block is then bolted to the chassis bulkhead of a single seater. Thats not what im suggesting here.

    what ive seen done on the westys, is the engine mounts are solid as is the gerabox mount, and then an extra plate fitted between the box and block with then bolts to the chassis/bulkhead area. I think the theory is that the engine and box is pretty rigid, so an extra set of mountings half way along the assembly basically indexes the chassis to the engine/box. This will increase the torsional rigidity without adding much in weight (a couple of kilos of ally plate) and shouldnt add much in the way of packaging issues.

    i reckon itll make everthing rattle and buzz though, could be popular with the laydees

  9. #89
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    I realised that soon after posting, there's very little about it on the net. Only people saying that it would ruin the engine. In my case I would be using the engine to stiffen the chassis rather than support it.

    So the over engine brace doesn't actually touch it but just ties the top of the car together?

  10. #90
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    I think a road car engine as a stressed member isnt good for longevity, but F3 cars do it but the blocks are consumables...

    Generally a turbo blocks stiffer than a NA one, but even so i dont think its worth the risk.

    Re the bracing, yep usually just misses the engine as bonnet lines are low. The std 7 chassis is basically a trough, an incomplete structure, the cross brace (made into a slight pyramid/peak if poss) basically completes the structure making a spaceframe. Think of it in the same way as a roll cage for the engine bay! The brace adds the strength and rigidity to the open engine bay that a cage does to the open cockpit area. As the cradle is much lower, 20mm box should be fine. Ideally if you want to be really clever, you need male/feme ferrules turned up for the mountings. Weld a male to the chassis which is tapped, and then the female section to the brace ends. Then imho the bolts dont locate the cradle or take the loads, just hold it to the chassis upper rails. Would make huge addition to the rigidity

  11. #91
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    I trial fitted the gearbox today, I have a small problem though!

    http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.p...S14-SR-gearbox

    I need to move parts of the chassis or make one of them removable at least so I can move the gearbox back 30mm minimum.



    It's part K which is an upright on the transmission tunnel.

  12. #92
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    Whilst not perfect as an engineering solution, be easy to make them elliptical to fit round the box casing. One of the TVR s does similar thing. Maybe use 2.5mm wall box and have a nice constant bend?

    Im having same issue on my car tunnel, ive chopped more and more away and want the engine and box back so ive shortened the tunnel dramatically. Nissan box is a bit fat compared to Henrys Type 9 !

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNHSS1 View Post
    I think a road car engine as a stressed member isnt good for longevity, but F3 cars do it but the blocks are consumables...

    Generally a turbo blocks stiffer than a NA one, but even so i dont think its worth the risk.

    Re the bracing, yep usually just misses the engine as bonnet lines are low. The std 7 chassis is basically a trough, an incomplete structure, the cross brace (made into a slight pyramid/peak if poss) basically completes the structure making a spaceframe. Think of it in the same way as a roll cage for the engine bay! The brace adds the strength and rigidity to the open engine bay that a cage does to the open cockpit area. As the cradle is much lower, 20mm box should be fine. Ideally if you want to be really clever, you need male/feme ferrules turned up for the mountings. Weld a male to the chassis which is tapped, and then the female section to the brace ends. Then imho the bolts dont locate the cradle or take the loads, just hold it to the chassis upper rails. Would make huge addition to the rigidity
    What do you mean by ferrules?

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNHSS1 View Post
    Whilst not perfect as an engineering solution, be easy to make them elliptical to fit round the box casing. One of the TVR s does similar thing. Maybe use 2.5mm wall box and have a nice constant bend?

    Im having same issue on my car tunnel, ive chopped more and more away and want the engine and box back so ive shortened the tunnel dramatically. Nissan box is a bit fat compared to Henrys Type 9 !
    Do you mean the uprights elliptical bowing out into the cockpit area?

    I am amazed that the box fits pretty good apart from this small hiccup.

    I'm excited to get it fitted now.

  15. #95
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    yeah, basically make those K section uprights like bananas, bulging into cockpit. s long as they dont intrude into seats you would be ok, few mins to 'glass covers over the holes in the tunnel panelling would be neat.

    ive posted re gearbox issues on the other post with some pics to hopfully help :-)

    one of the many issues mine will then have, is the engine and box will sit so far back, the shifter will need me to grow another elbow, so i either need to add an extension (bit crap as the gear knob will rise and fall by a couple of inches from 1-2nd, 3-4th) or do as below on this old Clubmans Mallock 'box
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #96
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    My tunnel panels are Ally so I may be able to shape them.

    That is a good idea with the remote shifter linkage.

  17. #97
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    Well I'm not going to be able to use an s12 box the shorter tail section means that the shifter will be too far away from me. In order to move the box further back I'd need to change the tunnel which would mean less foot space. Already small as it is. So my only option is to move some of the supports in the tunnel back or forward a little to clear the detent bolts.

    I should get away without trimming the bell housing for clearance too which makes life easier too.



    Last edited by jon200; 07-12-2012 at 15:46.

  18. #98
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    bellhousing CA rather than SR, smoothed and with some of the solid ally bosses lopped off





    bit more clearance and a kilo of swarf, ally dust and chunks distributed all over garage...

  19. #99
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    Do the ribbed bits actually do anything? I was going to use a 1mm cutting disk in the angle grinder to chop the bits off where needed. Can you use a normal disk for Ally?

  20. #100
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    From an engineering point of view, im sure the ribs do something, but likely if you keep the hockey stick brackets between block and bell housing, then they probably arent essential. I used 2mm cutting discs and the finished off with grinder

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