I just spotted this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ares-fall.html
Makes some interesting points!
I just spotted this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...ares-fall.html
Makes some interesting points!
Stopped reading after the headline, which is so misleading it's not even funny. Firstly - how can taxpayers LOSE money as shares fall if they're not selling the shares at that point in time for less than they paid for them? Secondly - RBS shares are tracking at 27p currently which is ~8p more than they were just before Christmas, so in essence as per journo speak the taxpayer has PROFITED by ~50% on shares since Christmas! Yay RBS!
The press - such a bunch of total fcukbags
dont let facts get in the way of a good storyOriginally Posted by arry
Ha, I wasn't meaning to put a spin on things either way
Personally I think if somebody takes a job based on performance related bonuses, as is common in sales and the financial sector, and achieves targets, the goalposts shouldn't be moved. It's not going to help attract other top flight people to such organisations.
personally i think Bonuses should be capped for these banks that have had any form of state funding, euqal to the percentage to state ownership. this is for everyone on over £40k.
for instance with RBS, £1m bonus would be £160k, and the other £840k goes back to the government to allow RBS to buy it self back.
the company failed. it needed to have a heafty bailout to stop the total collapse of the banking sector in the UK. millions of people would have suffered if the government didnt step in.
if they use the excuse of "if we dont pay bonuses, we will loose the top bankers, the company will fail and the tax payer will get £0.00 from the bailout" is bollox.
yes some bankers will leave, but not everyone. even if they put 50% of the bonus in a pot which then pays out when the company is 100% private again, would help retain people. there will always be people who will do the work, capable etc. let the greedy bankers go, they will only fcuk up another bank
my company, which incidentily is part owned by RBS, and we have an RBS representitive on our board, has frozen all payrises and bonuses untill our deficit is reduced to £X, and our profitability increases by X%. this i understand, as the company retains money, gets its finances in shape and moves forward. hopefully they keep to their word and give everyone a good bonus when we reach that stage. so why cant the government say the same to the banks?
the other thing is that noone has been held accountable (prison) for any fraud, wrong doings wtc in the banking sector over the last decade. there was people commiting fraud on a daily basis to generate themselves a bigger commission. when these people have been found and delt with, i wil lfeel much happier with giving a bonus to the good guys.
Capping them is pretty fair - I would say it would make sense to allow enough of a bonus to motivate people.
A financial institution where the sales people aren't getting paid related to performance I think would be a recipe for disaster. It makes people complacent and lazy in that sort of environment in my mind - this may or may not be correct but that's how I see it.
Basics are generally not huge, with performance related pay making it appealing. With safegaurds in place to stop people defrauding their way to success it should work well - in theory
A £1m bonus is really a £480k bonus since the tax goes back to the government (assumes normal PAYE). Along with that, depending on what is purchased with that money 1/6th can go back to the government as VAT, or if property is bought 5% as stamp duty.
As for capping bonuses on those earning over £40k, for a London city worker this isn't a high wage you mean bastard Monkey
Anyway as for the article above, it's a notional loss so this means cock all.
Well, the loss is similar to the house price fluctuations that so upset people despite them not moving house - upsetting people with bad news for fun is a sport the press have down to a fine art these days.
fair point, but thats assuming that everything is done correctly. and the bonuses (in Hesters caes at lease) was not straight forward cash, it was 3.6m shares in RBS, equal to £1m today. which would stil lbe taxable (CT etc) but in 10 years could far exceed original bonus depending on the share price then. (yes investements go down as well as up). add in Dividends etc as well, that could be a tidy sum.
ok, i know it was low, but a cap should be put in place, £100k, then. people at the bottom of the food chain (90% of the public facing "bankers") should retain 100% of their pay and any bonuses/perks. they just do what they are told, they rarly come up with products the bank sells, let alone ones that are morrally/ethically/legally bad.As for capping bonuses on those earning over £40k, for a London city worker this isn't a high wage you mean bastard Monkey
and banking is not just in London, there are plenty of people employed by RBS etc all over the UK and world.
Anyway as for the article above, it's a notional loss so this means cock all.[/QUOTE]
yes
not really the best analogy to use, and wrong IMO. and i'm not going to derail this thread discussing it.
there isnt a loss though, its a false gain.
the price is still above what the government paid per share, so as it was not money paid, but its less money gained if they sold today
I dont think he should have handed it back.
By all accounts he has done a half decent job since he was appointed and it was in his contract anyway, not only that but he would have paid shit loads of tax on it.
I would have put the middle finger up to the great unwashed and sent that twat in charge of Labour a shit in the post.
Im furious regarding all of this TBH. IIRC the man in question turned a £1.5Bn loss into a £1.5Bn profit, his bonus was therefore 0.0003 percent of the shift. Take into account he will be giving nearly half of that back to the Government in tax and its an absolute pisstake, frankly.
If I see Milliband I wont be responsible for my actions, what the fcuk does he know about running a bank anyway? I hope Mr Heston goes and works for Deutsche Bank ASAP personally, and takes all of the rest of his team with him, we can then bitch about how we are all losing money again.
I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
Wow, triple furious! That's some serious stuff. I find myself agreeing if not with quite the level of enthusiasm!
Oh Fcuk Doc's gone on a repeating rant
Fooking ell Docwra, I had to read that 4 times. Don't you know I'm busy at work?
I'm in 2 minds about this bonus thing - I appreciate that the company has had to be bailed out and needs to pay it's debts, which will in some small way help the country bail itself out of the shite. Hester gets paid approx 1.2M/year which is a pretty decent salary, but a 100% bonus on top of that is just excessive. How many of the RBS frontline staff are going to get a bonus this year, or face a pay freeze because the company was in the shite but is now on the mend? He should get a 'reasonable' bonus just like everyone else..
5% of my salary is based on the performance of my employer - last year I got slightly more than jack shit because of the financial market. If I found out that the CEO & exec had paid themself a 100% bonus I'd be fcuking livid...
His salary is pretty modest though compared to similar positions for similar banks.
They get bonuses whether they do well or not. In this case he's done well.
Didn't the previous RBS boss do quite badly and yet he still got a bonus?
Scrap all the bonuses if you ask me. For ALL bank employee's no matter what position.
I'm so bored of this entire thing and wish it would go away.
I couldn't give a fcuk who gets a bonus and who doesn't.
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