Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: Anyone running LPG ?

  1. #1
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    west midlands
    Posts
    1,742
    Rides
    0

    Anyone running LPG ?

    Just wondeing if anyone is running lpg on their s14's? If so would you say its reliable?
    Has anyone fitted their own kit? I fitted a multi valve kit to a p38 v8 range rover before cost me 1k to do myself though, didnt keep it long after though so not sure how it got on but i see it about every now and then.

  2. #2
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    nr milton keynes
    Posts
    241
    Rides
    0
    not running it myself but i know alot of the subaru guys are on LPG maybe worth a look over on those sites for more info

  3. #3
    was Moby-Dick madcowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    6,532
    Rides
    0
    both SM and Richy_Boy have run 200's on LPG. My S-type jag has an EcoGas system fitted, but I bought it ready converted.
    GMasterT Heavy Industries!for all your Widget needs


    Back to Jap with Mk2 Aristo & Nissan Elgrand

  4. #4
    I Love mike Brewer )o( Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    16,851
    Rides
    0
    theres a couple of members running LPG on their SX's

    there are multiple long/informative threads on the subject on here

  5. #5
    Guest
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Nr Selby, North Yorkshire
    Posts
    1,575
    Rides
    0
    I use to run mine on LPG, couldn't fault it.

  6. #6
    Guest sparkyhx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    4,731
    Rides
    0
    SM used to run LPG and for a long time drop him a line -

    its should'nt be a problem, you may have issues getting the map right if you start upping power too far.

    Crazyshad knows about this I'm surprsied he didn't mention he's ditched it now he's seriously upped the power.

    I may be talking absolute tosh here, but the LPG piggybacks the ECU, so I think that once you go beyond the stock ECU I think you will need a specialist map. Like I said maybe talking tosh.

  7. #7
    Guest jimbobD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bovingdon
    Posts
    431
    Rides
    0
    LPG systems run on their own ecu and alot of the time their own map sensor and then tagged into wiring for revs, lambda reading etc

  8. #8
    Guest clai cerrig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Anglesey N Wales
    Posts
    4,079
    Rides
    0
    I ran my stage 2ish s14 on LPG for about 6yrs including track days with no problems at all

    Currently running a Rover Streetwise 1.6 - MGZT 2.5V6 - Jeep V8 4.7 all on LPG so i have a little experience of the pro`s and cons regarding the LPG systems

    What would you like to know about them ?

    I can take you through all the stages pit falls etc of fitting and setting a system up

    I will PM you my contact numbers if you fancy a chat

    Clai

  9. #9
    was Moby-Dick madcowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    6,532
    Rides
    0
    Clai do you know anyone that can tune an Easy Gas setup ? the Jag seems to run a lot slower on Gas than Petrol and I'm sure its due to a lazy map.
    GMasterT Heavy Industries!for all your Widget needs


    Back to Jap with Mk2 Aristo & Nissan Elgrand

  10. #10
    Guest sparkyhx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    4,731
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbobD View Post
    LPG systems run on their own ecu and alot of the time their own map sensor and then tagged into wiring for revs, lambda reading etc
    But its not independent of the cars ECU.

    My Lexus petrol Fuel guage is useless cos of this, it still thinks its running off petrol so goes down even when you are on gas.

    The way the installer said it does it is that it gets the map from the ECU and then 'applies' factors to it for the LPG. So as far as the cars ECU is concerned its still running the car, the LPG ECU sits in between it and the bits it controls. So the LPG ECU pick up the car MAP to see how much fuel it should be using and then 'calculates' what that means in respect of LPG. So if you tune the car and start messing around with bigger injectors and having a special map for the petrol side you then need a special map for the LPG side.

    Clai did the Stage 2 have a special LPG Map or 'out of the box'. I'm pretty sure Crazyshad ditched his cos he couldn't get anyone to map it for the setup he was using.

    I don't doubt the car will run on higher power just that the pool of people able to do the map is less. Specialist tuner - won't know about the LPG, whereas an LPG guy won't know about 'tuning'.
    Last edited by sparkyhx; 01-12-2011 at 12:39.

  11. #11
    was Moby-Dick madcowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    6,532
    Rides
    0
    interesting, I don't have that issue - my petrol gauge stays put when I'm on gas , it goes down slightly but that's for when its on warm up The Range isn't much help though as it give the range as of if I switched over to gas at that instant. instant mpg is the same -its what it would be doing if on Petrol.
    GMasterT Heavy Industries!for all your Widget needs


    Back to Jap with Mk2 Aristo & Nissan Elgrand

  12. #12
    Guest
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Nr Selby, North Yorkshire
    Posts
    1,575
    Rides
    0
    My LPG ECU was a piggyback using the cars standard settings.

    Unfortunately My Prins Vsi system couldn’t support 360bhp although with bigger injectors and a map (£900) it could run low boost.

    F1 automotive seem to know their stuff but are very expensive, they wanted £1200 to remove the system from my sx and pit it to my passatt

  13. #13
    Guest clai cerrig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Anglesey N Wales
    Posts
    4,079
    Rides
    0
    Moby i will inquire for you there are 2 installers in my area and also a main importer but it might be Monday or Tuesday evening before i can get back to you with the info

    Sparky

    I had a map made specially for the car whilst driving it on the road by my LPG installer

    These are the step progression i made in getting my system right

    Step 1 Standard S14a fitted a Multi Point Sequential Gas Injection (often called 'SGi')
    Suitable for sequential and non sequential electronic multi point fuel injection engines with Oxygen (Lambda) sensor, Catalytic converter and plastic inlet manifold(s) and all Turbocharged and Supercharged engines.

    It was latest Romano 'N' type Multi Point Sequential Gas Injection System

    The 'N' system requires even more information from the engine but uses a lot of data from the vehicle's existing engine management instead of picking it up raw at source as the earlier system did. Additional information required is -

    Gas temperature

    Gas pressure

    Petrol injector pulse length

    The system also has its own ECU but this works in conjunction with the Petrol ECU, instead of working alongside it like the earlier non sequential system.

    Even more benefit of performance and economy are delivered by the new Romano system, along one or two useful bonuses. The new system will 'sense' that gas pressure is low and switch back to petrol before the gas tank runs dry - A very useful trick. It will even give you an audible warning to tell you it has done this. A 'self check' protocol has been added to the changeover procedure so that the system will not move on to gas if a problem exists. The system now handles enigines up to 400 bhp with a single vaporiser which makes life easier for us and more reliable for you. Last but not least, the latest 'FAST' type injectors can be stripped and cleaned using only basic tools, no more worries about injector contamination by poor quality gas.

    Problem i had with the above was at aprox 3200 rpm the car switched from LPG to Petrol and then back again when the revs droped changing up through the gears

    This problem was reckoned to be not enough gas flow so the bore of the pipe was up from 6mm to 8 mm

    Step 2 the car would rev to 5000 rpm then change from gas to petrol and back again like before . We had moved the problem higher up the rev range. After a lot of trailing we deduced that the change over was caused by the standard petrol injectors maxing out at 100% duty cycle and so not emiting a pulse that the system required the LPG injectors to fire and so thought the system was out of gas and changed over to petrol

    Step 3 i decided to go the whole hog and went K&N Cone Filter - Z32 Maf - 555 Nismo Inj - Walboro Pump - Apexi FMI - Custom built ss exhaust 1 box no cats - Jezz stage 2 chip and tune

    Jezz fitted the chip and mapped the petrol side we left the LPG disconnected in case of conflict issues . Brought the car home and my LPG installer had me drive the car for a couple of hrs whilst he set the LPG map to run using a programe he had written on his laptop

    As far as i know the car is still running with no issues today

    Sorry for the rambling post hope it helps fellow

    Clai

  14. #14
    was Moby-Dick madcowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    6,532
    Rides
    0
    No Rush mate
    GMasterT Heavy Industries!for all your Widget needs


    Back to Jap with Mk2 Aristo & Nissan Elgrand

  15. #15
    Guest sparkyhx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    4,731
    Rides
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by clai cerrig View Post
    Moby i will inquire for you there are 2 installers in my area and also a main importer but it might be Monday or Tuesday evening before i can get back to you with the info

    Sparky

    I had a map made specially for the car whilst driving it on the road by my LPG installer

    These are the step progression i made in getting my system right

    Step 1 Standard S14a fitted a Multi Point Sequential Gas Injection (often called 'SGi')
    Suitable for sequential and non sequential electronic multi point fuel injection engines with Oxygen (Lambda) sensor, Catalytic converter and plastic inlet manifold(s) and all Turbocharged and Supercharged engines.

    It was latest Romano 'N' type Multi Point Sequential Gas Injection System

    The 'N' system requires even more information from the engine but uses a lot of data from the vehicle's existing engine management instead of picking it up raw at source as the earlier system did. Additional information required is -

    Gas temperature

    Gas pressure

    Petrol injector pulse length

    The system also has its own ECU but this works in conjunction with the Petrol ECU, instead of working alongside it like the earlier non sequential system.

    Even more benefit of performance and economy are delivered by the new Romano system, along one or two useful bonuses. The new system will 'sense' that gas pressure is low and switch back to petrol before the gas tank runs dry - A very useful trick. It will even give you an audible warning to tell you it has done this. A 'self check' protocol has been added to the changeover procedure so that the system will not move on to gas if a problem exists. The system now handles enigines up to 400 bhp with a single vaporiser which makes life easier for us and more reliable for you. Last but not least, the latest 'FAST' type injectors can be stripped and cleaned using only basic tools, no more worries about injector contamination by poor quality gas.

    Problem i had with the above was at aprox 3200 rpm the car switched from LPG to Petrol and then back again when the revs droped changing up through the gears

    This problem was reckoned to be not enough gas flow so the bore of the pipe was up from 6mm to 8 mm

    Step 2 the car would rev to 5000 rpm then change from gas to petrol and back again like before . We had moved the problem higher up the rev range. After a lot of trailing we deduced that the change over was caused by the standard petrol injectors maxing out at 100% duty cycle and so not emiting a pulse that the system required the LPG injectors to fire and so thought the system was out of gas and changed over to petrol

    Step 3 i decided to go the whole hog and went K&N Cone Filter - Z32 Maf - 555 Nismo Inj - Walboro Pump - Apexi FMI - Custom built ss exhaust 1 box no cats - Jezz stage 2 chip and tune

    Jezz fitted the chip and mapped the petrol side we left the LPG disconnected in case of conflict issues . Brought the car home and my LPG installer had me drive the car for a couple of hrs whilst he set the LPG map to run using a programe he had written on his laptop

    As far as i know the car is still running with no issues today

    Sorry for the rambling post hope it helps fellow

    Clai
    Thats my point really standard power and ECU - absolutely no problems what so ever but start f*cking around and you are soon into getting a custom map which I don't think your average installer can do.

  16. #16
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    west midlands
    Posts
    1,742
    Rides
    0
    Just like to say thanks to Clai for the help and advise,im seriously considering this in the new year.

  17. #17
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,470
    Rides
    0
    You don't need to run custom maps on LPG setups. When you 'map' an LPG system you're really just getting the injection pulse difference set between the fuels, the cars ECU controls fueling and the LPG ECU simply sits between the cars ECU and the injectors. When switched the LPG it simulates the petrol injectors (to keep the cars ECU happy) and converts the petrol pulse to an LPG injector pulse. +/- x ms... generall through the whole rev range, bu some allow you to change this figure at different rpms.

    So.. upgrade your car and there will be very little to change on the LPG map. You can buy the remapping kit from ebay for most systems, they're all very easy to use. LPG installers are generally spanner monkeys who know very little about performance mapping. I remapped my LPG system myself (both on my 200sx S14a and Alpina B3S) and improved performance and economy as it was mapped uber rich when it was installed.

    Spent a while with Horsham Devs (Jez) in my car too where he checked things out and tweaked the mapping... it went "very nicely!"

    My 200sx has 300bhp on 99 RON fuel and 295bhp on LPG and was running a BRC FAST system. My Alpina B3S was running a PRINS VSI system, also very good.

    Hope that helps...

    Rich

  18. #18
    Guest FireStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,887
    Rides
    0
    Shortly i plan on running a prins vsi system on a 360target hp redtop sr.

    In theory you can run higher boost on lpg over petrol.

    The lpg installer has agreed to come with me to the mapping session to tweak the lpg system during mapping.

    Yes you can just map the car running on petrol but i wanna see if i can make the most out of the lpg in order to counter the extra 50kg of weight.

  19. #19
    Guest
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Reading
    Posts
    11,470
    Rides
    0
    I'm not sure how running LPG can allow you to run higher boost? I would have thought a pressure limitation would be down to the strength of the piston/con rod, rather than what fuel was ignited in the cylinder. Remember that if you inject vaporised LPG into the cylinder it doesn't have the same cooling effect as petrol, so you need to be mindful of cylinder wall temps and EGTs. That said, I didn't have any problems with my car, though always used petrol on track days as I didn't have the kit to test EGTs to know what was happening on LPG in extreme conditions.

    Rather than use a vaporised LPG system, you should look at liquid injected LPG systems - although when I had my 200sx they were a little unreliable due to needing a pump. Obviously, if you pump liquid LPG into the cylinder it will be like NOS and it can run 100% on LPG, so no petrol tank required! (so the weight issue of carrying a second tank is gone)

    From memory there should be ~10% increase in bhp/torque when using liquid LPG over SUL. If using vaporised LPG you will always lose some torque from my experience.

    Rich

  20. #20
    Guest FireStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,887
    Rides
    0
    Ive done a fair bit of research and spoke in length and over the phone to the installer. Who is a prins gold installer.

    The higher octane rating of lpg makes it far more det resistant. Its something like 109 up to 112

    Running lpg does make the engine run hotter. However, the extra 50 degrees in the 800 degree cylinder chamber doesnt matter a pinch.

    If its lubrication your worried about simply use valcare which pumps lubricant in with the fuel mix. Its main purpose is too prevent valve seat recession however on the turbo sr this isnt an issue as its got very hard valves and seats.

    Ive also run lpg on a 335bhp audi a8. Really didint notice any temp issues. Certainly no loss in power.

    As u rightly say there is no pump in normal lpg systems. Its delivered on tank pressure. So providing a high enough rate of fuel is ur main issue. Up to 400hp on 4 cylinders is about ur max the current injectors can handle. These injectors r not used that often as most apllications dont require them.

    I really wouldnt worry about increased temps. Id go so far to say its almost a myth (they do increase but by such an insignificant amount)

    Im gonna do some research on injecting as a liquid with a pump next week now that uve mentioned it
    Last edited by FireStorm; 18-06-2012 at 18:31.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •