As some of you may know, I've been saving for a BMW for more than a little while. It looks like I'm just about there (for a 320d atleast).
But before I take the plunge, I've realised ATRs have become very affordable.
A lot of car for not too much money. Looks like you could take it on the track and have a lot of fun without messing with it at all?
Are there any owners/former owners on here?
ATR or 320d?
They are nice cars and fun to boot! And those recaros are frankly the greatest seats my arse has ever has the pleasure of plonking down in!!
Whereas BMW 320d meh just another Beemer
The Beemer has rwd but it's not necessarily an advantage as you won't be doing much drifting in a 320d lol
GaryP has one, was going very well at Japfest 2
Originally Posted by silverzx
Excellent. I'm not fussed about FWD vs RWD for a daily, and being able to take it to the track in standard guise is a massive bonus.
Hopefully GaryP will chime in!
I've driven both many times over I'd pick the atr I'd love one myself, but at the end of the day, you'll be the one driving it I'd suggest a test drive in both see which you prefer
But I'm now saving for a good wanckel (deliberate misspelling damn swear filter lol) rx8s are getting mega cheap sub 3k
Last edited by itrhondaboy; 28-07-2011 at 22:11.
There's no way I can afford to run an RX8!
Ideally I need something with 4 doors, which is why I'm looking at ATRs instead of ITRs. The thing that would push me towards the 320d is effortless torque (which I'm used to with the S14, and I guess its become somewhat comforting to have it there whenever needed).
My daily atm (SORN) is a Civic Aerodeck VTi, but the engine left me somewhat underwhelmed. I'm still convinced it was never running perfectly though.
Yes I see what you mean
Honda Accord Type R
2157cc
209 bhp @ 7200rpm
158 lb ft @ 6700rpm
BMW 320d
1995cc
163bhp@4000rpm
251lb ft@2000rpm
Nearly 100lbft difference, which is good if you do allot of motorway driving as well, but does the Beemer pull that all the way to red line or tail off? It's all well and good saying that at 2000rpm but does anyone have the figures for above that?
Last edited by itrhondaboy; 28-07-2011 at 22:28.
Thankfully I don't do anywhere near the amount of driving I used to (I work from home).
Only the odd run to Oxford (1h30 round trip), and then the usual gym/shopping runs.
Figures for my Civic are 169 hp & 128 lb·ft, so still a noticeable difference I guess.
Last edited by Quail; 28-07-2011 at 22:31.
I'd imagine the Beemer would be much easier on the motorway less gear shifts better mpg too
Not too fussed about motorway compliance, as I only do motorway drives 3 or 4 times a month.
MK involves a lot of starting/stopping, which is why torque is nice, but anything that can make roundabouts more fun is a huge bonus. Also, lots of good A roads around here.
Also due to never being quite happy with my S14, I've neglected all track action. Would love a daily that was suitably at home on track, which I think this could be. All the 320D SEs look a bit soft around the edges.
go for a atr, honestly they are fun cars, and really not bad for fuel, very comfy imo and look different from the bmw scene, iv owned 3 civics all of them being the b16 engine, loved every single moment never failed to put a smile on my face, but i do understand the whole torque thing. it did bother me but eventually i just weighed up the options, on how fun the car was to drive around and how easy it was to maintain
Well I've never had a 320d on track but I'd imagine it wouldn't be half as fun as the atr, they run out of puff too soon for me and there's no instant throttle response, I'm not a BMW hater but the 320d always seemed like a posh mondeo tdci IMO, 330d may be worth considering though, even then probably to big and lumbering and laggy
I also managed to stop my friend from buying one for one reason, BMWs and drug dealers, and he likes his naughty cigs, and he's a shifty looking character anyway so he'd be pulled over in no time lol
I await the panzer divisions firing squad
Last edited by itrhondaboy; 28-07-2011 at 22:52.
I certainly like the look of 330Ds, but I can't find any within my budget that look that great.
The downfall of the ATR is the gearbox, the ratios are S14 status.
Like i said on FB they definitely aren't 'good' on fuel - The brakes are amazing with a good pad and disk setup, i had a set on my old EK coupe and have had the rear wheel cock under braking
ATR
152.5 lb ft @ 7200rpm (96% peak hardly surprising given how close they are)
Not a lot point to finding power @ peak torque, have to look at the chart.
http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=494
Torque is near flat line - it's what variable valve lift and timing does.
about 73bhp @ 3000rpm
BMW 320d
120Kw, 160bhp, 163Ps
220lb ft@4000rpm (87% peak)
95bhp @ 2000rpm
http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=697
It's flat 2000-3000 rpm but plummets and like all Diesels has Sweet FA go below peak torque.
Get neither. Get a SI engine with a small well matched Turbo. Boost fills out the lower/mid range just like a Diesel and romps away at top end like a Vtec.
17 year old 2L Turbo with simple variable inlet cam
147Kw / 200PS / 197bhp at 6400rpm
265Nm / 195lb ft at 4800rpm
http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=724
Add a twin scroll turbo still with just a variable inlet cam.
Renault Megane RS
184Kw / 250PS / 247bhp at 5500rpm (319Nm / 235lb ft)
340Nm / 251lb ft at 3000rpm (106.8PS / 145bhp)
http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=921
Only thing that can better that, is a Vtec/Vanos turbo.
SR20VET
206kW / 280PS / 276bhp @ 6400rpm (307Nm / 227lb ft 99.5% peak)
309Nm / 228lb ft @ 3200rpm. (103Kw / 138bhp)
Torque is really close to a flat line and like Diesel peak torque is at 50% peak power rpm. Unlike a Diesel it doesn't stop pulling. Shame it was only ever fitted to a truck.
To top that throw a twin scroll or sequential turbo on as well. More torque earlier and higher peak power.
TL: DR
Meanwhile, back in the real world of affordability...
If they're anything like the ITR, the whole torque issue is a little exaggerated. There's a surprisingly large amount of low rev get up and go in a 'teg, I guess its due to the weight.
When we have to have 4 doors, it will almost certainly be between an SE3P and an ATR. I'm not sure I could bring myself to get a DB8, They just look a bit wrong. I utterly love the teg, as does my wife, and if an ATR is even half as good, there will be no contest. Main issue I'm aware of are the stupid gear ratios.
Last edited by Si; 29-07-2011 at 07:43.
Can you actually post without looking like a robot
Owning a car isnt a clinical experience to do with percentages or coefficients etc etc. How about thinking how the car drives, how well specced it is, how it looks etc etc
Nice to see you know nothing about modern diesel engines as wellMy 530d has plenty from idle thanks all the way to the red line
Even 4 pot ones have come a long way since 1980
there is a solution if it really bugs you
http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/sh...e-modification
but it'd be screaming on the motorway. I'm currently pondering between an aerodeck or accord of some variant, so will be watching this thread
white '94 s13 200sx scrapped - mapped to 1.45bar. OS giken box, garrett GT2876R, 950cc injectors, ORC twin plate, nistune. 349bhp/325lbft @ 1.3bar CA18DET
white '96 s13 180sx - type g with more kouki bits
current status: 180 a bit broken but to be repaired.
Easy solution: by Alex's Aerodeck. Then he can buy an ATR!there is a solution if it really bugs you
http://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/sh...e-modification
but it'd be screaming on the motorway. I'm currently pondering between an aerodeck or accord of some variant, so will be watching this thread
Haha, I don't think Alan wants my Aerodeck.
I'll be selling it for very cheap due to it needing an MOT (which will involve new tyres/brakes) and Tax. Its also untidy bodywork wise (although zero rust).
It's an amazing car thats never let me down, but I'd rather put the money of getting it back on the road towards a new car.
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