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Thread: CA18DET Dry Sump System - Completed !

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffers_S13 View Post
    I suspect some people reading this thread dont actually know what it does, but still want one...
    And if they knew they'd loose a bit of power, do you think they'd still want one ? the power needed for 3 pumps instead of one don't come from nowhere

    Really impressive work

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by folken View Post
    And if they knew they'd loose a bit of power, do you think they'd still want one ? the power needed for 3 pumps instead of one don't come from nowhere
    I've has oil surge on a DC sliproad S bend that left a smoke trail for a mile. OK sump may have been slightly over full as car is parked on a slope and it's hard to judge. But it wasn't more than 1/4L over as it had an oil change and less than 3.75L went in.

    All race engines run dry sump. F1, F2, F3, WRC, BTCC. Even the ones converted from road engines like SR18 and CA18. They prefer the reliable oil supply to the power it costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by folken View Post
    Really impressive work
    2nded

  3. #23
    Guest Chris B's Avatar
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    Are electric oil pumps available?

    Was there room for an Accusump set-up in the Dax?

  4. #24
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    Great work
    Ca18 powa!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyshack View Post
    I've has oil surge on a DC sliproad S bend that left a smoke trail for a mile. OK sump may have been slightly over full as car is parked on a slope and it's hard to judge. But it wasn't more than 1/4L over as it had an oil change and less than 3.75L went in.

    All race engines run dry sump. F1, F2, F3, WRC, BTCC. Even the ones converted from road engines like SR18 and CA18. They prefer the reliable oil supply to the power it costs.
    I'm lacking a bit of language skills to express my thoughts correctly, but I completely agree with you

    I just wanted to say that maybe some people might want a dry sump just because it looks cool, as Jeffers_S13 said.
    But obviously some people must need it, or it wouldn't have been invented in the first place

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffers_S13 View Post
    It wont pull the oil out, any suction caused by the scavenging will suck through the breathers as its easier path.
    Oh yeah, good point it should provide a little negative pressure, but probably not enough to worry about I guess

  7. #27
    Guest Oyama's Avatar
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    Grat job , a few days ago my mates did the same setup and I think it's the same pump on a C20XE opel corsa = 9000 rpm.








  8. #28
    Guest Chris B's Avatar
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    How much power is the pump stack supposed to sap?
    Losing the original pump and minimising oil in the crankcase should regain some of that lost power?

  9. #29
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    skyshack > yes, racing engines use dry sump. They also have a lifespan counted in hours. You dont have a racing engine, so dont compare


    folken > i can think of a lot of things to do that will look cool for the price of a dry sump setup
    If you dont need one, dont install one. I dont think you could do one setup for under 1000.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris B View Post
    How much power is the pump stack supposed to sap?
    Losing the original pump and minimising oil in the crankcase should regain some of that lost power?
    It has been years since cranks are not splashing in oil. No power to gain from a dry sump setup, it is all about reliability.

    Still, the internal oil pump is not used anymore so maybe there is something here.

  10. #30
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    the power 'loss' from a dry sump setup is similar to that of hydraulic (as opposed to electric) PAS, 3-4hp

    Edit
    actual amount depends on engine and installation of course before the pedants have a field day

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by croustibat View Post
    skyshack > yes, racing engines use dry sump. They also have a lifespan counted in hours. You dont have a racing engine, so dont compare
    I thought all CA engines had a lifespan measured in hours?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNHSS1 View Post
    the power 'loss' from a dry sump setup is similar to that of hydraulic (as opposed to electric) PAS, 3-4hp

    Edit
    actual amount depends on engine and installation of course before the pedants have a field day
    if you put a 4 stage pump on and you could get the crankcase into an appreciable vacuum, the improved ring seal would be worth it, even in a road car, imo.

    could potentially fix one of the CAs achilles heel of breather problems.
    white '94 s13 200sx scrapped - mapped to 1.45bar. OS giken box, garrett GT2876R, 950cc injectors, ORC twin plate, nistune. 349bhp/325lbft @ 1.3bar CA18DET
    white '96 s13 180sx - type g with more kouki bits - RB25DET, GTR steel twin turbo conversion, RB26 crank & rods. 2.6L VVT twin turbo, SR20 OSG box, OSG STR twin plate clutch, Z32 ECU w/ nistune.

    current status: 180 a bit broken but to be repaired.

  13. #33
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    I once saw a video of a porsche engine on a test bench, which reproduced the G forces of a lap on the Nurburgring.
    When you see the engine almost upside down, it helps to believing you NEED a dry sump

    But we don't have porsche ...
    I wonder if the oil can return correctly to the sump in case of a hard, long run on a 400+ silvia (but in case of a manual GB, the acceleration is interrupted when you change gear, so it might be irrelevant).

    I believe some road cars have dry sump as well (but I'm too lazy to google it now), but are mainly limited to a few supercars.

  14. #34
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    When I started faffing with all this a few years ago... (!) I couldn't find any electric pumps that were suitable, I think there are some around that claim to do the job and I'm sure I've got some links somewhere. The fact that 100% of systems that I've now had a good butchers at, use coventional mechanically driven pumps like mine, possibly suggests they cant do what is needed for whatever reason.

    There were some threads about the DIY dry sumping of engines on the locostbuilders forum a few years ago that covered alternatives using electric pumps and PAS pumps and I think someone (possibly many) have tried and *I think * found them to not be happy with really hot engine oil.

    In terms of power loss I suppose I could get mine rolling roaded again (I did have 232BHP at the wheels) but I took the opportunity to finally fit a CA16 inlet cam I had got hold of a while ago, when I had the engine in bits, as part of all this so I wont be able to get a like for like test unfortunately.
    Last edited by Jeffers_S13; 18-04-2011 at 16:00.

  15. #35
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    What happens if the belt snaps?

    Nice work BTW

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by playworker View Post
    What happens if the belt snaps?

    Nice work BTW
    I get no oil pressure, a big light on the dash lights up, I kill the engine and coast from the fast lane to the hard shoulder and phone a friend with a trailer or a tow rope...simples

    OR

    I get no oil pressure, I dont see the light on the dash, bad noises come from the engine bay, I jump on the clutch and then coast from the fast lane to the hard shoulder and phone a friend with a trailer or a tow rope...simples but combined with far more tears and swear words.
    Last edited by Jeffers_S13; 18-04-2011 at 16:17.

  17. #37
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    i would love to run a dry sump system just for geek points but i cant see me really ever needing one running a stock ca in a ae86 but im 95% set on going for a Accusump system just for peace of mind/in case i do ever get oil serge

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross B View Post
    I thought all CA engines had a lifespan measured in hours?
    Depends
    Stock 170K mile+, shell dies before engine.
    Tuned up a bit within JH stage limits they still last quite well.
    Wound up to needing forged bits, new transmission etc and life will still be quite long if only used on public roads. It's the track and dyno time that will kill them.

  19. #39
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    Nice work Jeffers

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