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Thread: Government to close VAT 'Loophole': DVD's, Games, Misic to go up in price

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    I Love mike Brewer )o( Monkey's Avatar
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    Government to close VAT 'Loophole': DVD's, Games, Misic to go up in price

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml

    DVD prices to rise as VAT rules tightened in budget move that will cost shoppers £130m

    A sales tax loophole used by millions of Britons to buy cheap CDs, DVDs, computer games and even contact lenses from the Channel Islands is to be closed.

    Chancellor George Osborne is expected to change VAT rules in a move that will cost shoppers at least £130million a year.

    Currently, high street retailers like Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's, Boots and Specsavers use internet stores based in the Channel Islands to offer VAT-free prices.

    Amazon and other fast-growing internet specialists, such as Play.com and TheHut.com, use the same ploy.

    The decision to close the VAT loophole could add £2.80 to the price of a blockbuster DVD such as Inception, taking it up to £16.76. A chart CD, such as Rihanna's Loud, could go up by around £1.80 to around £10.80.

    Under the current law, low value items costing less than £18 can be imported to the UK and from locations outside the EU - such as the Channel Islands - without carrying VAT.

    The arrangement was condemned by small independent chains and others for many years, amid claims it was robbing sales from the high street.

    Critics claim the VAT-free deal led to the closure of hundreds of stores and fuelled the difficulties of chains such as HMV, which has recently issued a number of profit warnings.

    The last Labour government rejected repeated calls to change the VAT rules, insisting it was not a loophole.

    However, it appears the Coalition is determined to put an end to the VAT-free purchases in the latest effort to boost income and cut spending to tame the national debt.

    The Chancellor criticised the system when in Opposition and he is expected to ban it in his budget later this month.

    Treasury minister Lord Sassoon signalled the plan, telling the Lords: 'We are committed to tackling tax avoidance and, in that context, we hope to be in a position to announce possible changes to the operation of LVCR (low-value consignment relief) in the budget.'

    He said that, in contrast to the Labour government, which had been reviewing the VAT rules since 2006, the new administration had 'immediately gripped the situation'.

    Tesco said: 'To date all the savings that are made on buying items, such as DVDs and CDs, from our Guernsey business have been passed on to consumers. Consumers have been the winner, we don't make any money from this arrangement.

    'Our concern all along has been that there should be a level playing field for everyone selling these products. For that reason we are prepared to go along with the government's plans.'

    The Forum of Private Business, which has been campaiging for many years for an end to the VAT loophole, welcomed the expected change.

    Spokesman, Chris Gorman, said: 'It appears the government has finally seen sense of this. It has been hugely unfair having a tax loophole that could only be exploited by big multi-national businesses to the detriment of tiny little high street traders.

    'We are very glad that government has finally recognised what a big issue this is.
    'There has been a feeling among many small businesses, particularly record shops and others selling low value items that they have been really unfairly treated.'
    all this will do i fear it will push more people to download their media requirements illegally, it will also hurt the internet business that use this to their advantage
    Last edited by Monkey; 03-03-2011 at 10:41.

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    Agreed dude, it's difficult enough to get people to buy the real deal unless it's a gift for someone. But on the flip side, we're out of money as a nation.

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    I Love mike Brewer )o( Monkey's Avatar
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    oh, dont get me wrong we are broke, but doing this will hurt the ecconmy more, less people will purchase DVD's etc due to cost, businesses who rely on this will suffer from reduced proffits, more people get laid off, more unemployement, more benifits need to be paid.

    i think the net benifits are greatly less than the consequences.

    there are other ways to generate more money, and this is not one of them

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    Guest Rude Dog's Avatar
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    What the government dont seem to realise is that with all the extra taxes they are making and charging us simply means the end user has less to spend. Less spent ultimately equals less tax revenue. Do they honestly believe that they will actually generate more money? If someone has £9.00 to spend on a CD and can currently afford to buy it from one of these companies then they will. If it costs £10.80 and they only have £9.00 to spend no one gets the money!

    All they'll do is force online retailers to close, or force them further afield into Europe entirely where all the employees will be Europeans and not collectively British. We don't get taxed on European goods so they'll just force them elsewhere

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    so All three of you are no longer ging to buy games, music or DVDs .... but instead start to Pirate them ?

    Am I right in saying that ?????

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    I Love mike Brewer )o( Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    so All three of you are no longer ging to buy games, music or DVDs .... but instead start to Pirate them ?

    Am I right in saying that ?????
    i've just changed my comment as i realised i missed 2 words.

    i do not condone illegal downloads of games/media etc, but i can see more people doing it as the price of this stuff gets more expensive (due to inflation, tax rises, disposable income getting more streached for people)

    it will not push me more towards illegal downloading, but it will reduce the amount of purchases i do for new media, to the point where its probably only presents that i get physical media brand new.

    i buy alot of my games, Blu-Rays etc second hand from CEX, Game, Gamestation etc as they are cheaper normally than new, i will just wait longer for a game, etc untill the second hand price is lower

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    so All three of you are no longer ging to buy games, music or DVDs .... but instead start to Pirate them ?

    Am I right in saying that ?????
    If the price of a movie going from £14 to £16 is going to get people to pirate stuff, chances are they're already doing it. Games etc it will make more difference (£8 ish increase) which will mean it'll cost pretty much the same getting it from a shop as it would from Play.com.

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    Guest Si's Avatar
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    'expected to'...

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    I just wonder if it will really make any difference ... or will people just complain that online is no cheaper than shops and start to buy from shops again.

    I am not sure I buy in to consumerism suffering ... it might make a few ripples in the economy as it settles in .. but after that, it will return to normal

    Could be wrong, but every other sellable item that is subject to VAT seems to not be effected by it

    Like anything from Cadbury reducing the size of chocolate bars but not reducing the price, to tax loop holes closed to Nationwide now charging for withdrawing money abroad ...... people only seem to care for about 3 months



    online shopping killed the highstreet market .... way more jobs lost through that happening ..... this might just re -address the balance

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    well, apparently they're committed to tax avoidance, so let's see how they tackle the british controlled corporate tax havens, bermuda, BVI, etc etc.

    I suspect the intake of tackling tax avoidance from these would net far more than a few hundred million.
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    Last few blu rays or films ive bought have been from tescos as they seem to be virtually the same as online retailers anyway. Plus with the advent of lovefilm, Itunes and alike i havent bought either for the last 6 months.

    recordable media has had its day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    online shopping killed the highstreet market .... way more jobs lost through that happening ..... this might just re -address the balance


    Pow....right in the kisser. I buy the odd thing from Amazon etc, but I always buy my games from the Indi retailer up the road because I enjoy the service.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    so All three of you are no longer ging to buy games, music or DVDs .... but instead start to Pirate them ?

    Am I right in saying that ?????
    No. I didn't even intimate that I would do that. TBH if I can't afford stuff these days, I go without. My kids come first and I'm happy with that

    I get the odd game for my PS3 as Birthday or Xmas pressies and I usually rinse them out as far as I can and then sell or swap them so I don't need loads of games. Theres not enough films that I really must see that I worry about the cinema or DVD's and someone or other I know usually get the films I want to see which I borrow for a night or two to watch. I buy the very odd DVD or blu ray when they're something I really want to watch over and over and then I will shop around for the cheapest option. mymemory.com is usually dirt cheap for films and shopto.net for games. No idea where either are based???? Music I'm not massively bothered about. I have a radio in the car and one in the kitchen. Thats enough.

    This won't affect me but my opinion is that the government is making a greedy mistake. What makes you assume everyone is a thief?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rude Dog View Post
    What makes you assume everyone is a thief?

    Absolutely nothing and that was my point.

    Increasing the price of games, music and DVDs wont really change peoples habits .. You and Monkey wont suddenly start pirating stuff ... but you might buy a little less .... you might even start spending your money in shops instead of online and proping up dying highstreet retailers.

    shops win, the government win, you buy 10% less stuff in a year . an online retailer makes a little less money, high street shops benefit from the increased trade

    I personally dont think closing this loop hole is a bad thing if you look at the big picture .. it certainly isnt the end of the world

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    i see your point Johnny, but i think this should be one of the last resort's to tax claiming.

    the bottom line is that UK PLC is broke, and the government are hastely trying to get as much money in tax as quick as possible. there are ways to do it, that wont alienate the general public. if the government is seen hitting the faceless corporations they bailed out then the general public might have some sympathy when their personal tax bills rise.

    they should not have allowed the Bankers who we own to have had a bonus. my Company is owned 60.5% by one of the banks the tax payer bailed out. we was bought 1 year ago.

    now the board (who consist of mainly the bank) voted to freeze all our pay (unless exceptional circumstances) and deny us a bonus for the next 2 years (minimum) (it was 3 years but 1 year has passed), they said that when we turn a proffit of £X after we have paid our fees to the bank (we are proffitable now, but only just) we will receive a payrise and a bonus for that year. but the bank who is owned by the tax payer (us) gets their bonus, before paying the tax payer off.

    oh thats right its in their contracts. it was in our contracts untill they got re-written by the bank

    there are plenty of other tax loopholes that could/should be close first than this one. like companies that operate in the UK that pay hardly any corporation tax or do double Irish? If we're going to close one loophole, let's close the lot!

    disposable income is diminishing for the general public fast, VAT at 20% for most other stuff, the rises in fuel, etc. and now this.

    i bet within the next 6-12 months they'll introduce a 5% VAT on current not VATable products.

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    Banned sideways14a's Avatar
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    As i have said before, you cant just go out and slap a big bill on the bankers and big business...

    Why?
    They will just up sticks and feck off out the country and then the tax office will get exactly Zero monies from them. Its a balancing act that has to weigh the requirements to get the tax on one side and the likely hood of the company leaving if faced with too much on the other.

    And yes they will leave, its not a bluff - make life to difficult for the big boys and they will leave with all there toys.

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    I Love mike Brewer )o( Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideways14a View Post
    As i have said before, you cant just go out and slap a big bill on the bankers and big business...

    Why?
    They will just up sticks and feck off out the country and then the tax office will get exactly Zero monies from them. Its a balancing act that has to weigh the requirements to get the tax on one side and the likely hood of the company leaving if faced with too much on the other.

    And yes they will leave, its not a bluff - make life to difficult for the big boys and they will leave with all there toys.
    they'll probably go anyway once they, realise they cant get any more cash out of us, alot of companies outsource their telephone call centres to cheaper countires anyway, to move their offices there wont be too much hasstle.

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    Guest Rude Dog's Avatar
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    Closing this loophole will not stop the product being sold cheaper and it won't drive me back onto the high street. Amazon is cheaper for a load of stuff that is still sold and posted from the UK. I'll carry on using them. No postage costs beats paying for fuel to get to the high street and parking costs and the item is still discounted due to lower overheads than the shops on the high street. Items that are being sold and sent from "tax havens" currently will I think be sent from Europe in the future.


    If I had a business currently in a British "tax haven" and the government said to me you can't do this any more I'd just move to Ireland (for example, no idea if their VAT is lower than the UK) or something where although you're still liable for tax its at a much lower rate and part of the EU therefore avoiding import taxes.

    If theres a way around it someone will find and exploit it. I think the government think that the avarage businessman is just going to take another shafting. They only want to make money and if selling cheaply is their business, and they can do it for less elsewhere then they will, which is why all items liable for VAT are sent from the channel islands or where ever it is. Once again the government will just force online businesses abroad and the only thing the UK will get out of it is more people out of work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Increasing the price of games, music and DVDs wont really change peoples habits .. You and Monkey wont suddenly start pirating stuff ... but you might buy a little less .... you might even start spending your money in shops instead of online and proping up dying highstreet retailers.

    shops win, the government win, you buy 10% less stuff in a year . an online retailer makes a little less money, high street shops benefit from the increased trade

    I personally dont think closing this loop hole is a bad thing if you look at the big picture .. it certainly isnt the end of the world
    i was trying to come up with an answer as to why i wont buy more in "real" shops, but i couldnt think, and Rude has hit the nail on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by Rude Dog View Post
    Closing this loophole will not stop the product being sold cheaper and it won't drive me back onto the high street. Amazon is cheaper for a load of stuff that is still sold and posted from the UK. I'll carry on using them. No postage costs beats paying for fuel to get to the high street and parking costs and the item is still discounted due to lower overheads than the shops on the high street. Items that are being sold and sent from "tax havens" currently will I think be sent from Europe in the future.
    in Southampton its £5-£7 per day to park, or (for where i live) its £6.50 for 2 adults return on the bus.

    i'd rather stay at home TBH

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    So when you go shopping for other things, food, clothes, the other half drags you out etc ... basically what ever reason you find yourself in a Mall or down the highstreet.

    At the moment you pop in to Game or HMV or basically any part of a shop that sells dvds / games / music. .. Look at what they have .. and think .. fcuk that its cheaper on line, I'll buy it there.

    now you can get it while you are out ... saves you waiting for it

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