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Thread: Nurburgring Brake Discussion

  1. #41
    Guest Cornwall's Avatar
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    Brakes - your all boring me

    Please no more arguing about brakes, theres a big search button to with hundreds of posts about different brake set ups Each to there own budget

    This argument is pointless but simples, you can go around the ring on standard setup but lets face it, its not the best idea. I ran s14 set up on the front of my 13 with red stuff pads and standards on the rear. I got brake fade on my first two laps because I was a little brake heavy. All other laps it was perfect. I'm currently running around 260bhp.

    Best advice: drive to your capabilities, ensure your pads are up to the job, check all your brake lines and put good quality fresh fluid in before you go

    Any more moaning or arguing and i'll start using my new found powerz of delete post


    Quote Originally Posted by marky89 View Post
    i see there are load of different ideas on what you need on here.
    since reading what everyone has said iv not decided to not try and upgrade all my suspension components but do ARB's, coilovers, track/road tires. and im going to need to change my entire brake line system as they are rusty and put braided lines in. i think i might try to splash out on decent front brake upgrade and leave rears stock with upgraded pads, i currents have grooved discs in the rear.
    and to be honist, i hate my brakes, they are totaly crap.
    cheers
    I think you got a fair amount of mixed advice fella, just be sensible and ensure your cars ready. Youl be fine

    This year was my first track day, lost my cherry at the ring and I fricken loved it it's just a huge twisty A road with no on coming traffic. Drive it like there's traffic coming the other way, keep an eye in your mirrors and most importantly, just enjoy the experience were not all going to extend our cocks with best laps times

    Quote Originally Posted by dobergoose View Post
    Was just about to post up something along those lines.

    And without starting another internet war, how is the place for tyres, will a set of 888's or the like last a long weekend and the drive home?
    I ran R888's, they did the trip and the ring, they are still on the car and have enough life to go again Covered about 4k in them so far. Awesome tyre choice, didn't loose grip once



    PS: haven't had much time to get on recently, i will update the interest list at the weekend trips looking like a big one, might be cheaper to rent the track for a day

    PS2: Midgers - the ring is cool

  2. #42
    Guest SM's Avatar
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    My standard brakes failed on the BMW...... oh wait, we have dropped that

    My S13 will be fully road legal, to UK spec, taxed, insured, MOT'd

  3. #43
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    SXOC @ Nurburgring 2011 - Discussion

    Moving the shit

    EDIT: Discuss how you may or may not die using such and such brakes here please!
    Last edited by Channie; 01-11-2010 at 14:27.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channie View Post
    Moving the shit

    EDIT: Discuss how you may or may not die using such and such brakes here please!
    I would have died in the BMW driving it how I wanted too with standard brakes, so had to drive to make the brakes last a lap...

    I reckon the same would be with a 200SX and standard brakes/pads, you NEED at least uprated pads you WANT bigger disks for more piece of mind & less pad wear/heat & more confidence in the repeatability of what your car will do when you hit the brakes. For SURE otherwise your either or

  5. #45
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    read most of this and got bored. So to light the touch paper...

    1. It is not a track.

    2. The OP has never been there from what he says, if he's driving at such speeds he'll cook his brakes I think he'll have crashed first anyway...probably following someone who 'knows the track'....TICK dealt with aftermath.

    3. There is so much penis measuring going on, go outside with a tape measure....please.

    4. It could be argued most people cook their brakes as they don't know the track and don't set up for a corner and cook them braking too hard too late...discuss.

    5. Would you drive at such excessive speeds in relation to talent if you were plonked in the back lanes of say California? No? Why not?

    There's gaps inbetween trees and road furniture unlike the Ring's barriers.
    You won't get a £3000 odd bill for knockng over a tree
    There's little chance of you coming up behind a coach while you're trying to get out the way of a road legal Mosler doing 160mph.
    Roads are rarerly designed with blind bends and off camber downhill bends.

    It is a toll road when you are there. It is a track if you have an appropriate race licence on a race day....

  6. #46
    Strawberry 14-A VIDAL BABBOON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a60rod View Post
    1. It is not a track.

    Not any more but that's not the way to look at it

    If you drive within your limits with the vehicle you have then there will be no need to upgrade anything

    I have been going for the last 5/6 years and there are many standard cars going round lap after lap with no problems.

    Yes the stock brakes are not amazing but the very fact the OP has not had any issues with them on the car to make him think about changing them speaks volumes to me

    Just get out there and have fun
    Quote Originally Posted by sideways14a View Post
    Christ i would bang that harder than a barn door in a hurricane.

  7. #47
    S13 + 2bar = 475@wheels bren's Avatar
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    Yet another rediculous SXOC pointless argument founded on nothing but bickering for the sake of bickering with not enough people listening to the points being made.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    You have zero experience of boiling fluid then, just of overheating the pads. Which is why you really shouldnt be making statements like you do, you dont know what youre talking about, literally.
    this has been bugging me.

    there is no reason for your fluid to go before the pads/discs unless something else is wrong - ie manifolds cooking lines, water in lines due to wrong fluid being used etc.

    if youre brakes are hot enough to boil the fluid then youd notice it on the discs/pads way before.

    you dont just boil fluid for no reason

    and you were one of the louder voices in the 'pointless sxoc argument'

    ps sorry bigman (byebyegti) ill make it up to you
    http://sxoc.com/vbb/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=11238&dateline=1227414084
    Quote Originally Posted by S14 Stu View Post
    I'm not a big ford fan but the RS500 is a legend, you cannot take away from it its Icon status and to suggest that its a chavvy car is like saying Kirsten Scott Thomas is a council estate slapper

  9. #49
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    For my own personal comfort i will be upgrading - paying 30 odd euro's to experience brake fade seems daft and a pointless waste of money to me

  10. #50
    S13 + 2bar = 475@wheels bren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fake Ben Taylor View Post
    this has been bugging me.

    there is no reason for your fluid to go before the pads/discs unless something else is wrong - ie manifolds cooking lines, water in lines due to wrong fluid being used etc.

    if youre brakes are hot enough to boil the fluid then youd notice it on the discs/pads way before.

    you dont just boil fluid for no reason

    and you were one of the louder voices in the 'pointless sxoc argument'

    ps sorry bigman (byebyegti) ill make it up to you
    Thats a prime example of what Im talking about.

    You are now stating that boiled fluid is a myth and that I must be mistaken in thinking Ive experienced the pedal hitting the floor? Maybe I imagined it?

  11. #51
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    no im not

    how the hell did you take that from what i said?

    what i said is that youd notice the heat in the brakes before they got hot enough to boil the fluid unless something else caused the fluid to boil - ie water in the lines, manifold to close to abs unit/lines etc
    http://sxoc.com/vbb/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=11238&dateline=1227414084
    Quote Originally Posted by S14 Stu View Post
    I'm not a big ford fan but the RS500 is a legend, you cannot take away from it its Icon status and to suggest that its a chavvy car is like saying Kirsten Scott Thomas is a council estate slapper

  12. #52
    S13 + 2bar = 475@wheels bren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fake Ben Taylor View Post
    no im not

    how the hell did you take that from what i said?

    what i said is that youd notice the heat in the brakes before they got hot enough to boil the fluid unless something else caused the fluid to boil - ie water in the lines, manifold to close to abs unit/lines etc
    Thats not true, the first indication of an issue was the pedal sinking which is indicative of boiling fluid.

    The brake lines are not being heated by manifolds, the pads didnt go wooden, the pedal just sank. And Ive had this on multiple occasions with different cars and different brake set ups over the years.

    The last time was in the Skyline with 356mm front brakes, stock rears with PF01 pads all round and Castrol Dot 4 fluid which Mike installed due to a misunderstanding (we use Castrol Dot 4 for the clutch as its very kind to the slave cylinder seals). Im sure Ive already gone through this in this thread.

    The braking system generated more heat than the fluid could cope with which then boiled. We changed the fluid to a higher spec one and the problem was eradicated.

  13. #53
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    im going to stop now as we are quite literally going to go round in circles.

    i have my views. you have yours.

    lets just leave it at that yeah? or we can continue arguing it out and each getting more pissed off till jim tells us to pack it in
    http://sxoc.com/vbb/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=11238&dateline=1227414084
    Quote Originally Posted by S14 Stu View Post
    I'm not a big ford fan but the RS500 is a legend, you cannot take away from it its Icon status and to suggest that its a chavvy car is like saying Kirsten Scott Thomas is a council estate slapper

  14. #54
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    Yet another ridiculous SXOC pointless argument founded on nothing but bickering for the sake of bickering with not enough people listening to the points being made.


    I hope people will choose wisely who to listen to.
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
    2010 - on : 2007 RX8 PZ
    1998 - 2004 : 1991 S13

  15. #55
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    The braking system generated more heat than the fluid could cope with which then boiled. We changed the fluid to a higher spec one and the problem was eradicated.
    I had that on my S13, I had Tarox pads and Discs (which where the best at the time), goodridge hoses etc, but standard fluid.

    Fluid boiled, pedal hit floor without warning.
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
    2010 - on : 2007 RX8 PZ
    1998 - 2004 : 1991 S13

  16. #56
    S13 + 2bar = 475@wheels bren's Avatar
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    Ah but you must have wrapped your brake lines round your manifold on their way from master cylinder to caliper, no?

  17. #57
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    Yet another rediculous SXOC pointless argument founded on nothing but bickering for the sake of bickering with not enough people listening to the points being made.
    Im almost ashamed TBH.

    Standard 200SX brakes are shit, end of - they arent particularly powerful, they suffer from fade pretty badly and even with recently changed fluid in them Ive managed to lose all braking power fairly quickly on the road.

    It stands to reason for me that if you are going to be spending at least £500 on a trip to the Ring and back, it would make sense to have a think about your brakes and how they might stand up to a few maximum attack laps, and maybe even spend a bit of money improving them.

    Im not saying that you cant have fun without uber braking ability, but one of the reasons I rarely do trackdays is that I have a pretty much standard setup on my car and it frustrates the hell out of me when I have to drive at 90%.

    Granted, some of the track gurus (quote from Dunc: "Brakes are just a suggestion IMO, handy for trackdays" ) may be able to drive round them to some extent, but I know I cant, and I wouldnt shell out £50 and drive 50 miles for a trackday without knowing that my stoppers were up to it, never mind schlepping halfway across Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
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    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    As said above, its perfectly possible to go with stock brakes. Ive done it in our Jag (with DS2500s all round) and our Legacy (stock brakes and pads) and although both cars got round without incident they both had to be driven with plenty in reserve or the brakes would have cooked very quickly.

    Not as much fun if you cant nail the car properly but you dont have to upgrade. Youll just have less fun if you dont.
    Sorry to quote back to the first page, but I totally agree with this ^^

    Having been once in the S13 and taking a chance on the tired S14/Z32 setup, and then going back in the M3 with totally standard brakes except Yellowstuff all round and Motul fluid, the single biggest thing that made my second trip more fun was both having the ability, and knowing I had the ability to actually stop. The S13 brakes had faded badly by halfway round a lap (I'm no Dunc, I tend to use them a lot), so the latter (twistier, more fun) half of the track couldn't be attacked as much as I'd have liked.

    With the M3, although the standard brakes are hardly the best stoppers in the world, they just didn't seem to fade to any noticeable degree, which made it about 17,000 times more enjoyable as you can push a good bit harder. I could even happily do 3 back to back laps, where I didn't even dare trying 2 back to back laps in the S13.

    As Bren etc say, it's still plenty fun to do with stock brakes, but it's really only when you try it again with better/more consistent brakes you notice how much more fun it becomes.

  19. #59
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    I really, really don't want to post on this again - but my first 3 trackdays in the 14 were on boggo (As in totally Nissan supplied) brakes. OK I'm much faster now but I was still putting in 1:35ish laps at Combe in a standard car which isn't slow. (faster than some race championships still) and didn't suffer from any fade.

    You will need to upgrade pads if you chuck a few too many more ponies at your car, but bigger discs is the preserve of 'high' (300+) power IMO.

    If you can do a trackday anywhere in the UK ok on your current brakes then the Ring will be fine as if anything it's easier (on brakes).
    If you're wondering or concerned wether you need to upgrade then do an airfield day and find out - if no then you've just gained some usefull track experience if you had none to begin with, if yes then you've hopefully choosen a location with a tad more run off than the ring (Christ, even Combe has more runoff than some bits of the Ring! ) and can then upgrade/fix your problem.

    Based on current repair bills I'd say you have to be more concerned about suspension components - my bills now exceed £300 on broken/bent bits from May
    oh, thanks for the incredibly fast service on the last bit of that BTW Bren

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
    I had that on my S13, I had Tarox pads and Discs (which where the best at the time), goodridge hoses etc, but standard fluid.

    Fluid boiled, pedal hit floor without warning.
    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    Ah but you must have wrapped your brake lines round your manifold on their way from master cylinder to caliper, no?
    so i take it were not leaving it?

    scottie i bet you had abs though, possibly with a tubular manifold? the abs unit sits right next to the hottest part of the engine bay, possibly why the fluid got a bit warm? the only time ive experienced boiled fluid was on the motorway when my timing was wrong and the neat from the turbo cooked the abs unit. it promptly came out and problem solved.


    bren you yourself have said that your big brake kits dont generate much heat as is clearly evident in the lifspan of the discs and pads and at one point said that you had to go to a colder pad.

    so where did all this heat come from?

    changing to a fluid which can handle higher temps doesnt mean youve solved the problem just found a way round it.

    bren youve also said in the past that you were struggling with under bonnet temps on the skyline and thats why you cut the hole in the bonnet and made the headlight vents to get cool air onto the filter.

    so is it not possible that all this underbonnet temp is the problem?
    http://sxoc.com/vbb/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=11238&dateline=1227414084
    Quote Originally Posted by S14 Stu View Post
    I'm not a big ford fan but the RS500 is a legend, you cannot take away from it its Icon status and to suggest that its a chavvy car is like saying Kirsten Scott Thomas is a council estate slapper

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