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Thread: best coilovers for the money

  1. #161
    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quail View Post
    I agree, I welcome putting stats/specs against competitor stats/specs. Thats exactly who it should be done . No assumptions/hearsay.
    It would have to be very detailed and include details that perhaps people selling them would not be happy sharing, as it's 100% likely the competition will contact the same factory and get them made to spec. The amount of detail needed to compare them would be a challenge to put out IMO. You'd even have to get into materials etc, as 2 could be the same spec, but one could go rusty or bend, and one could be hard as nails...

    VERY few places in the UK have stock and a proven range of products like Apex. They have an expensive spread of cars across the 200SX spectrum, and use them to develope new products, as well as listening to what owners want on here. What is with the negativity all the time?

    People complain if stuff is cheap and from the far east, then complain when it's from the UK and expensive. There is not much winning

    To offer good prices and a good range you need to have buying power, to do this you need to sell a lot and buy a lot, to keep the supplier happy to supply you, and the customers happy with the products you can offer.

    Driftworks clearly do, and Japspeed, can anybody point to many other places that run cars on road and track, do constant R&D and keep bringing out new products at this rate, that are always getting better.

    In order to keep companies that support the club, and the marque producing such ranges surely it makes sense to support them, not slate them. Equally there are proven products from these people, developed over time on cars we have all seen, by people we know and can speak to, what's not to like?

    Bren has even said his earlier coilovers weren't up to the same level, so moved on from them, demonstrating both testing and listening to feedback. Not like an eBay trader who'll sell coilovers for £250 a time and not care a bit how they work, or not as the case may be.

    Some of the comments on here are frankly scary... advice coming from opinions based on reading eronious reviews, or from people who get old battered wheels welding up because they're too cool to buy new ones that dont have the right badge. People who'll cut springs to get the right look, not buy a new spring of the correct length and still a balanced spring rate. People who have never been on track, or had cars with ride hights and wheels prohibiting even spirited driving, with suspension on the stops, preaching about what people should and shouldn't do, then argueing with somebody who daily drives a powerful 200SX, runs several on track and takes his own on track.

    I could rant on, but I need to think about getting my head back down and doing some work instead of more ranting It takes longer than I thought to keep this going...

    For what it's worth I run Driftworks CS1s on my S15, and I love them. I have driven and been in cars with pretty much all listed options so far, and would say asking people who have put some miles on each of the various options is the way forwards. See how they're looking, if they're all siezed up, if they're knocking, if they have had to replace dampers, and if so how hard parts were to get, how the service was etc. These are other keys points to consider!

    Equally just stating the facts and opinions from Honda-Tech and having a high post count does not make you right

    Making something to a Japanese spec, how is this different from making something to a UK spec? Are they more demanding of their identical cars, in some way we dont know about?

  2. #162
    S13 + 2bar = 475@wheels bren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmini View Post
    Right iam gonna say something now!! I have something i have wanted to discuss with you regarding roll centre and bottom balljoints but i have been afraid that you may not listen and bite me

    I will pm you tonight about it well thats if you dont mind
    Of course, no problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Quail View Post
    No, I know the amount of R&D that goes in to PBM products. They're actively communicating with the community and releasing products based on feedback and requests (and I'm not saying you don't).
    Good to hear that there are still companies activily developing parts for these cars

    Quote Originally Posted by Quail;
    I have no issue with you whatsoever Bren, but whenever you comment on other traders I always get the feeling you're trying to one up them, which is fair enough as its your business and livelihood, but I'm in the camp that buyers should be able to make up their own mind without traders putting eachother down.
    Fair comment but bear in mind that Im only on here because I felt we were getting an unfair ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by al. View Post
    i disagree with bren saying it's a huge investment to get custom designed coilovers - there are companies that will make one-off designs for not a great deal more than a standard set of race coilies. ok the cost is far in excess of the sub £900 off the shelf jobs a la hsd/bc/apex/meisterR etc but if your car and your driving are both at a stage where you'd be spec'ing your own suspension then it's not a great expense relatively.
    One of complete new designs, i.e. not using existing damper bodys, piston designs etc? Or do you mean theyll build you a kit form a parts bin of existing components, i.e. take an existing product and just modify it to fit a specific vehicle type?

    Quote Originally Posted by kam View Post
    Some really professional behaviour in this thread!

    Comedy.
    As constructive as ever Kam, well done. Nice contribution to the thread there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quail View Post
    We can tell when somethings been rebranded, or is generic.
    I disagree and the evidence backs up my opinion. The number of times when Ive seen people saying KSport, BC etc are all made in the same factory and conversely the number of times Ive seen people say they cant stand X but they just lurve Y when theyre actually the same product indicates otherwise. Maybe you are wise enough to distinguish between X and Y but that cant be same for a large portion of the tuning population.

    No doubt many people dont want me on this thread. That suits me, dont post anything that requires my reply and Ill not reply, simples! Deleate any biased posts including my own, Ive no issue with that whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilchap View Post
    It would have to be very detailed and include details that perhaps people selling them would not be happy sharing, as it's 100% likely the competition will contact the same factory and get them made to spec. The amount of detail needed to compare them would be a challenge to put out IMO. You'd even have to get into materials etc, as 2 could be the same spec, but one could go rusty or bend, and one could be hard as nails...

    VERY few places in the UK have stock and a proven range of products like Apex. They have an expensive spread of cars across the 200SX spectrum, and use them to develope new products, as well as listening to what owners want on here. What is with the negativity all the time?

    People complain if stuff is cheap and from the far east, then complain when it's from the UK and expensive. There is not much winning

    To offer good prices and a good range you need to have buying power, to do this you need to sell a lot and buy a lot, to keep the supplier happy to supply you, and the customers happy with the products you can offer.

    Driftworks clearly do, and Japspeed, can anybody point to many other places that run cars on road and track, do constant R&D and keep bringing out new products at this rate, that are always getting better.

    In order to keep companies that support the club, and the marque producing such ranges surely it makes sense to support them, not slate them. Equally there are proven products from these people, developed over time on cars we have all seen, by people we know and can speak to, what's not to like?

    Bren has even said his earlier coilovers weren't up to the same level, so moved on from them, demonstrating both testing and listening to feedback. Not like an eBay trader who'll sell coilovers for £250 a time and not care a bit how they work, or not as the case may be.

    Some of the comments on here are frankly scary... advice coming from opinions based on reading eronious reviews, or from people who get old battered wheels welding up because they're too cool to buy new ones that dont have the right badge. People who'll cut springs to get the right look, not buy a new spring of the correct length and still a balanced spring rate. People who have never been on track, or had cars with ride hights and wheels prohibiting even spirited driving, with suspension on the stops, preaching about what people should and shouldn't do, then argueing with somebody who daily drives a powerful 200SX, runs several on track and takes his own on track.

    I could rant on, but I need to think about getting my head back down and doing some work instead of more ranting It takes longer than I thought to keep this going...

    For what it's worth I run Driftworks CS1s on my S15, and I love them. I have driven and been in cars with pretty much all listed options so far, and would say asking people who have put some miles on each of the various options is the way forwards. See how they're looking, if they're all siezed up, if they're knocking, if they have had to replace dampers, and if so how hard parts were to get, how the service was etc. These are other keys points to consider!
    Liking that post, lots of intelligence built into it
    Last edited by bren; 08-09-2010 at 17:01.

  3. #163
    Guest Quail's Avatar
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    Glad you can see my side of it Bren

    Ben, I know that you feel like its an uphill battle with the whole Rota-bashing issue. Trust me, it winds me up as much as it does you. I would hope that people can see that Rotas are a quality product by now, and the whole replica debate is another issue for hopefully not another thread. I was one of Rota's very first UK customers back when I was 17!

    Although I'm sure many think I'm a JDM bum-boy, I have no affiliation, and I have no preference to product country of origin, as long as it does the job it sets out to do, so I hope no-one feels like this was a personal attack or put-down of non-Japanese products .
    Last edited by Quail; 08-09-2010 at 17:13.

  4. #164
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    The other massive consideration for me when buying suspension is UK backup and after sales help.

    There is only so much difference between some of the better makes of suspension, and on our roads all suspension will have some problems over enough miles, be it springs or dampers. Even standard cars have them go left right and centre, not literally centre

    Some makes won't sell you individual or pairs of dampers or springs, some don't offer any warranty period or comeback. SOme don't rebuild units.

    Make sure you pick a proven UK trader for suspension who is going ot be around for years to help you out - most important single point in my experience.
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
    The other massive consideration for me when buying suspension is UK backup and after sales help.
    This this and this ^^^^


    Everything is made from pure "cheap" these days .... your coilovers WILL break whether they are £1k or £500 jobbies

    But buy them off a UK trader and you can get the fcukers repaired again easily

  6. #166
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    I'm with Scottie and Johnny on this one.

    I had a set of Cusco coilovers which I bought second hand. They were the best set of coilovers i've ever owned, with fixed damping rates matched to the springs/car. When they leaked I spent a good while trying to find places in the UK that would rebuild them to no avail and ended up selling them on damaged.

    When I replaced mine I went for the Apex coilovers which were a good compromise for the money I wanted to spend, but the main driving force for choosing them was the fact that Apex will supply spares. In fact I recently bought replacement springs for them to drop the spring rate and they were on my doorstep the next day, can't argue with that.

  7. #167
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    same issue with my ohlins
    http://sxoc.com/vbb/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=11238&dateline=1227414084
    Quote Originally Posted by S14 Stu View Post
    I'm not a big ford fan but the RS500 is a legend, you cannot take away from it its Icon status and to suggest that its a chavvy car is like saying Kirsten Scott Thomas is a council estate slapper

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    One of complete new designs, i.e. not using existing damper bodys, piston designs etc? Or do you mean theyll build you a kit form a parts bin of existing components, i.e. take an existing product and just modify it to fit a specific vehicle type?
    off topic....
    as we all know, valved piston dampers designs work well, so most applications would be best suited to the usual damper design found on all coilovers. if a company is making each set to order anyway it's not much more effort to alter the design to fit the customers requirements precisely.

    further to this though, there is a market for completely bespoke designs. for instance a customer recently wanted a set of suspension for a very rare car i'm not really sure how much i can say, but the design produced was a billet machined into a shaft with eight large paddles and variable valving linking to a worm and cam arrangement to rotate the paddles within the damping oil. for various reasons strut dampers weren't appropriate for the application and this solution worked perfectly, to the point where the owners of every example of the car in question have all ordered the same design. there's definitely a market for completely bespoke suspension, and the price isn't vastly more than an off the shelf solution built to the same standard. particularly if there's an ex-benetton f1 race engineer running the place who seems to love a challenge

  9. #169
    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    The bespoke made to measure product for a decent sized niche is exactly where most traders on here do the best for the community

    For example, where else makes to measure a roll cage for a S14 that's kept on the shelf with various options?

    Where can you buy a 17x9.5 ET-19 wheel from stock?

    Where can you buy adjustment for every single part of ones suspension?

    Who offers constant specific online advice in terms of mapping, and off the shelf stages of tuning to make it easy for somebody to attain significant power gains with minimum effort and no troubles of fitment or compatability.

    How about a brake kit that allows direct bolt ons for larger brakes, tried and tested, on the shelf?

    I think everybody in this thread can put a name to each example... I could go on to give specific examples for various other traders on the board. The S-Body is a niche, developing a product for it is a risk, as in grand terms demand is relatively small. Companies largely specialising in the S-body are few and far between, and generally run by experienced and knowledgable enthusiasts, who give up their own time to help out all of the time.

    I would also it's not that everything is built cheap now. It's that we expect everything to be maintenance free. I give you a land rover as example. Service intervals for an off-roading and wading one is basically grease and check every moving and electric part between each use. Dont do this, and it'll go wrong all the time. Keep it clean and serviced, it'll be OK. Same with coilovers, dont keep them clean and free, they'll corrode and knock. Same can be said for most parts of these cars. They're made so well we're not used to actually looking after them, but if done right, mostly they'll live forever! Fix stone chips, keep sills and arches clear of mud, touch up scratches underneath and you'll have a rust free car. Ignore any issues like these and you'll need welding!

  10. #170
    Guest al.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilchap View Post
    The S-Body is a niche, developing a product for it is a risk, as in grand terms demand is relatively small.
    in the example i was talking about there are 8 cars in the world that's a real niche market lol

  11. #171
    Now with 400bhp....
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    Ben when did you become so enlightened? You raise very fair points and your post will hopefully stop some of the trader bashing thats going on in this thread.

    I have delt with quite a few of the traders on here. I pick and choose what parts I want and from whom quite carefully and have no complaints about the service or quality of the parts I have received
    1998 Nissan 200sx s14a , 2000 std 5 speed with nismo supercoppermix clutch bn6 Sapphire Blue

  12. #172
    Head Mod Scottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilchap View Post
    It's that we expect everything to be maintenance free... Same with coilovers, dont keep them clean and free, they'll corrode and knock.
    Some good points.

    Though I'd say that I've never seen any trader in all the for sale threads on here making this crystal clear - people assume they are maintenance free.

    I also think far too many people are using coilovers who shouldn't be and don't need to be. A good set of dampers and springs, with ARB's and correct alignment will be more than sufficient in most situations.

    I'd only use coilovers for a mostly track car, they can be worse on the roads than the damper/spring/ARB alternative especailyl British roads
    2004 - on : 1999 S14a 398bhp 378lb/ft
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  13. #173
    South West Rep Evilchap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chriscooke View Post
    Ben when did you become so enlightened? You raise very fair points and your post will hopefully stop some of the trader bashing thats going on in this thread.
    Haha, I think it takes reading through a few pages of ill-informed ranting to get me annoyed enough to post this sort of stuff, but having seen the situation from both sides as both a supplier and consumer I have developed a pretty well rounded view of stuff... although possibly will come across as one sided and defensive to some people that's really not how I see it at least, what I have written is from my brain, not the corporate handbook of rarerims

  14. #174
    Driftworks kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bren View Post
    As constructive as ever Kam, well done. Nice contribution to the thread there.
    I could start bitching instead, would that be constructive?

    I guess "as ever" is refering to the chrome car? I think my comment about it being painful to the eye was pretty much supported by 99% of the forum - constructive I'd say.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by kam View Post
    I could start bitching instead, would that be constructive?

    I guess "as ever" is refering to the chrome car? I think my comment about it being painful to the eye was pretty much supported by 99% of the forum - constructive I'd say.
    Give it a rest

  16. #176
    Engine Builder Mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kam View Post
    I could start bitching instead, would that be constructive?

    I guess "as ever" is refering to the chrome car? I think my comment about it being painful to the eye was pretty much supported by 99% of the forum - constructive I'd say.
    You are a guest here, please be nice or go elsewhere

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    I like Mark, he seems fair.
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    Mark is right.

  17. #177
    Guest swiftmini's Avatar
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    The last thing i bought from parts shop max came within about 10 days and it went through customs I would happily ait for stuff from them if i had to.They sell replacement inserts at about $60 each and springs are $60 for a pair

  18. #178
    Lightweight Alloy Wheels Rarerims.co.uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmini View Post
    The last thing i bought from parts shop max came within about 10 days and it went through customs I would happily ait for stuff from them if i had to.They sell replacement inserts at about $60 each and springs are $60 for a pair
    We all know you would be happy to wait, in fact id go as far to say you would rather wait for parts to arrive - for added JDM TiTe points

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmini View Post
    Gt factory is actually 'part shop max' the things that attract me to them is the catering for mega low cars, damping rates are supposebly pukka for heafty spring rates (which i run cose my car is pretty low and i like stiffness ) among other things. Also there 650 and i intend to order lots from them so too me it made sense
    We all also know that the above is nothing to do with it YOU want to buy them to be 'different' and because you are THE JDM FanBoi Yo

    I swear if they sent you 20 year old leaf springs off a battered transit van, you'd still be banging on about how JDM and full of awesome they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftmini View Post
    Right iam gonna say something now!! I have something i have wanted to discuss with you regarding roll centre and bottom balljoints but i have been afraid that you may not listen and bite me
    How comes you arnt PM'ing GT Factory your question regarding roll centre and bottom balljoints?
    Surely this would make more sense, how will you sleep if your car isnt set up to 'Japanese Specifications'

    One day you will realise that just because its Japanese wont automatically turn you into a driving god.
    You will also realise just because its JDM doesnt make it bullet proof
    You will also then realise, that if you had bought it from the Uk, the backup would have been 100x easier (try telling your GT Factory contact that their 'attitude makes them look like knobs' and see if they bother helping you )

    and the JDM tax really wasnt actually worth it
    Last edited by Rarerims.co.uk; 10-09-2010 at 11:33.

  19. #179
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    Mr rarerims

    please do some re-search on part shop max

  20. #180
    Lightweight Alloy Wheels Rarerims.co.uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clive View Post
    Mr rarerims

    please do some re-search on part shop max
    I did

    What im trying to point out to Kev, just whack on some HSD's/BC's, stop waiting for loads of stuff to be done/come from Japan, and just go and drive the thing

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