Astrology - buncum or future science ?

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 22:39

Originally Posted by Bayside Blue

Nothing wrong with Tories

what are you then? monster raving loony party or worse, green?

In the 80s I hated the Tories like most of my generation (I guess it was trendy to hate Tories as they represented politics of old rich people - still do look at their conferences !). They represented selfishness, hypocrisy, priviledge (how do you spell that?) (inherited/bought) and greed.

When Labour got in in 1997 I was pleased but now hate them too as they have been traitors to the working classes IMO.

Now average ppl on lowish salaries have no party representing their interests. This is depressing as the poor have little power in society on their own.

So now I refuse to vote - largely due to no obvious option, disenchantment with politicians in general and the first past the post system. If I did vote it'd probably be Lib Dem as Vince Cable speaks the most sense of anyone in politics now.

**Aitch** · 09-11-2009, 22:47

Originally Posted by nissangeek

In the 80s I hated the Tories like most of my generation (I guess it was trendy to hate Tories as they represented politics of old rich people - still do look at their conferences !). They represented selfishness, hypocrisy, priviledge (how do you spell that?) (inherited/bought) and greed.

From my memory of the time (and it worked for me) they represented that working hard reaped rewards. It doesn't seem a bad ethos to my mind, as opposed to sit on your arse and the world will look after you

This is depressing as the poor have little power in society on their own.

What would the poor do with this power? Reward themselves with yet more handouts?

**Stiffler** · 09-11-2009, 22:50

you can still have a job and be poor

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 22:57

Most ppl won't argue with you get what you deserve based on your efforts/results. But Tories push private education, healthcare, etc. All this does is make life easier for ppl born to rich families than it does those born to poor ones.

Hence your work/effort ethos is actually mitigated against by those kind of policies. Most Tory politicians come from privileged, wealthy families. All they care about is keeping their wealth and stopping anyone from poor families/neighbourhoods getting their hands on any of their dosh NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY WORK (not shouting just making a point)

What you say is just the spin they put on it.

You rememeber that scene in Platoon where the black guy says "the rich screw the poor - always have,always will". Well that's true now as it was then. It's not about ambition or laziness. It's money protecting money.

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 22:58

Originally Posted by Stiffler

you can still have a job and be poor

Good point.

**Storm** · 09-11-2009, 23:00

Originally Posted by Aitch

From my memory of the time (and it worked for me) they represented that working hard reaped rewards. It doesn't seem a bad ethos to my mind, as opposed to sit on your arse and the world will look after you

What would the poor do with this power? Reward themselves with yet more handouts?

That's a bit ironic when you consider they put thousands of extremely hard working miners on the dole to sit on their arses. It would have made far more sense to subsidise the industry to put it on an even keel with other countries who did just that at the time so undercutting our coal prices. It was out and out greed and a crusade to destroy the only means the working man had to fight back, the unions.

That's one view but then again it could have been Pluto's fault for not being a proper planet!

I'm beginning to find this astrology thing useful after all

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 23:03

Originally Posted by Storm

That's a bit ironic when you consider they put thousands of extremely hard working miners on the dole to sit on their arses. It would have made far more sense to subsidise the industry to put it on an even keel with other countries who did just that at the time so undercutting our coal prices. It was out and out greed and a crusade to destroy the only means the working man had to fight back, the unions.

Well said, it was money (rich) screwing working people -making them lazy !

**Aitch** · 09-11-2009, 23:08

Originally Posted by nissangeek

Most ppl won't argue with you get what you deserve based on your efforts/results. But Tories push private education, healthcare, etc. All this does is make life easier for ppl born to rich families than it does those born to poor ones.

I disagree (unsurprisingly). It encourages people to work towards what they aspire to. Life isn't easy; it isn't supposed to be. I wasn't particularly well educated and apart from living in a big house, my background was one of povery, because my folks invested all their money in their retirement, which they are bloody well enjoying

. They left me and my sister to make our own way in life, which we have done. I am doing the same - working hard and earning money, but I am enjoying it in the now. And doing it bloody well

Originally Posted by nissangeek

All they care about is keeping their wealth and stopping anyone from poor families/neighbourhoods getting their hands on any of their dosh

... which is exactly the same as my folks - it is their money, for them to enjoy. Why the fcuk should someone else benefit from their hard work and prudence?

**Aitch** · 09-11-2009, 23:10

Originally Posted by Storm

That's a bit ironic when you consider they put thousands of extremely hard working miners on the dole to sit on their arses.

"Extremely hard working miners?"

. Whenever I saw them they were sitting on their arses outside the gates around a burning brazier.

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 23:13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETqOvBKnKdk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WbtF...eature=related

**Aitch** · 09-11-2009, 23:24

Originally Posted by nissangeek

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETqOvBKnKdk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WbtF...eature=related

You've just posted two links to the ramblings of a mad man speaking to an empty house

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 23:34

Originally Posted by Aitch

You've just posted two links to the ramblings of a mad man speaking to an empty house

If you think Tony Benn is a mad man, you have no understanding of politics. He's spoken the truth more than anyone else, he's respected more than probably any other politician of recent times - even from Conservatives.

You need to read some political history.

**Storm** · 09-11-2009, 23:36

Originally Posted by Aitch

"Extremely hard working miners?"

. Whenever I saw them they were sitting on their arses outside the gates around a burning brazier.

Obviously not too many mines in your area then? I know people who worked in the mines and it's not something I would have wanted to do. Quite happy sitting on my arse at my desk telling other people what to do thanks very much. mind that's after an apprenticeship 7 years working on the shop floor, 13 years part time study (whilst full time employed) and now Chartered so I think I understand the ideal of working hard to get what you want. It would have been a damn sight easier had my parents had the money to help me along all the same.

**Grim** · 09-11-2009, 23:39

russel grant believes this.

that should be enough to convince anyone it's shite

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 23:41

More 'ramblings'....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO87j...eature=related

**Aitch** · 09-11-2009, 23:48

Originally Posted by nissangeek

If you think Tony Benn is a mad man, you have no understanding of politics. He's spoken the truth more than anyone else, he's respected more than probably any other politician of recent times - even from Conservatives.

You need to read some political history.

I've read plenty of history. And I agree that Tony Benn is one of the best politicians of his day. But the links you posted just make him out to be a rambling madman speaking to a handful of people who don't care

Originally Posted by Storm

Obviously not too many mines in your area then? I know people who worked in the mines and it's not something I would have wanted to do.

Quite the opposite - I live on the border with Stoke on Trent, which has a long history of mining. I have worked with a lot of people who are ex miners. Just like you, they didn't want to work in the mines so they went on strike and instead stood around the pit gates by a fire in a brazier

**nissangeek** · 09-11-2009, 23:51

Originally Posted by Aitch

But the links you posted just make him out to be a rambling madman speaking to a handful of people who don't care

Just like you, they didn't want to work in the mines so they went on strike and instead stood around the pit gates by a fire in a brazier

He sounds mad because he's enraged by the crazy policies of the Tories in the 80s.

Neither would you want to work in the mines. So why judge them ?

**Aitch** · 09-11-2009, 23:58

Originally Posted by nissangeek

He sounds mad because he's enraged by the crazy policies of the Tories in the 80s.

He was speaking to an empty house. If he had said it to a full house and got agreement, then I would see some credence in your view

Originally Posted by nissangeek

Neither would you want to work in the mines. So why judge them ?

According to you... that's all people can do

**Johnny** · 10-11-2009, 01:12

I am slightly in awe of nissangeek to be honest.

In every single post he has ever made I have had the complete and utter opposite opinion to him .... its not even a slight dissagreement .. its black and white 100% the opposite view.

I think nissangeek is my polar oposite

... he is the Anti-Johnny

**Ken** · 10-11-2009, 01:16

Originally Posted by Johnny

... he is the Anti-Johnny

Is that a catholic thing?

Thread: Astrology - buncum or future science ?

Thread Tools

Posting Permissions