My RR result. Any advice on areas of improvement?

[pizzaboy]

Was at the scottish SXOC Dastek RR day and the car ran fine on the rollers. Relevant spec enginewise is:

S14 VVT SR20
T28R
HKS adjustable actuator
Apexi induction kit+hardpipe
Braided Oil+water lines
Tubular manifold
SS japspeed flexi downpipe
Full exhaust system+elbow+de-cat
IK22s
Profec B spec2
Earthing kit
FMIC
Large core radiator
GTR fuel pump

The AFR runs pretty rich towards the end. Is it bad enough to warrant buying a chip and if so what one? Also the run was made with the Profec B set to produce as close to 0.9bar (13psi) as possible throughout the rev range but the RR people said I could safely hold 1bar according to the AFR readout?

RR Info:





Also I checked my injectors and it seems they are grey. I presumed they should be purple in colour if they are stock? I don't know if there's a chip already on the car as there's no fuel cut. The turbo I'm not sure what it is, it's definately a BB turbo (could be S15BB) but could be some hybrid job god knows. I'll need to have a proper look when I get the chance to see any markings. Apparently the compressor housings bigger than a S15bb according to folk who've owned them before at the RR day. I should add I did test it on the road at 1bar and the car hauls much stronger compared to 0.9. I've noticed SR20s tend to produce the same torque as bhp. Mines doesn't but is this down to needing a chip?

Overall the car feels really good to drive, I just want to make sure everything looks ok and and if anything stands out as unusual/needing attention or recommendations from the info pictured above.

[Richy_Boy]

I'd get a chip, that very rich at the top end. Also, I'd expect your T28R to hold better boost over 5k rpm?

Speak to H-dev about chips

Rich

[blue boy]

That lean spike on the AFR at 3000rpm is really bad just when thje tubby is coming on. Be careful as there could be DET issues. Deffo get some sort of mapping.

I would suggest Nistune as your spec is slightly different to standard from what you say so a generic chip will not suffice.

[Clouder_sx]

chip and a few more psi, will feel loads better, and be better on fuel..

[pizzaboy]

The drop in boost higher up the rev range is due to the way I set the Profec B up. I'm running gain at 40% and start boost at 0.85bar to provide more low to midrange power at the expense of top end stability. Hence why on the boost curve theres a quick jump at 2800rpm and wibbly bit at the end as it tapers off. Should I drop the gain to 30% and drop start boost to 0.75bar to stop the AFR spike at 3000rpm until I get a chip?

Is nistune expensive or is it better to go with H-dev?

[ads.r]

i thought you increase the gain to stop top end boost drop off?

[pizzaboy]

i thought you increase the gain to stop top end boost drop off?

That's what I though as well but it's from Drifters settings on how to setup your Profec B in useful links. It reads that is the effect when start boost is set close to the desired boost and gain is cranked up? Also what are the grey injectors? Are they just stock but happen to not be purple?

Edit: Forgot to add it has a GTR fuel pump. Added to original post.

[ads.r]

hmm i may be getting confused here lol


GAIN is defined in the manual as the value to adjust the "boost consistency". You don't really need to know exactly what that means. You should set GAIN to 0 when beginning, and you will then test the car under WOT while paying attention to the boost pressure. If the boost goes up and then falls off at higher RPM, you will want to increase the GAIN by a conservative amount

from the same page

[pizzaboy]

Ah actually yes your right When he says "Quicker spool up - slightly less stable on full boost" for some reason I read that as it'll drop off doh. Interestingly though when I had the Actuator set to 0.9bar it rose progressively and held it to the redline. I guess it is down to the Profec setup as the drop off happens when I have it controlling the boost.
I probably just need to increase gain to hold it. But I tried to be conservative with the setup until it was rr'd. Tbh I'm dropping the settings to a lower level till I get a chip.

The spike on the AFR graph at 3000rpm that coincides with boost coming in, does anyone know:

A)Why is this happening?
B)Is the spike engine bang territory?
C)Temporarily fixable if I use more conservative gain and start boost settings on the Profec?


Also anyone know if the grey injectors are just a variation of standard purple ones?

[Richy_Boy]

I would personally set your actuator up to 14psi and then fine-tune using the profec B. My standard 120k mile T28 was holding ~14psi with a profec b and a std actuator.

I don't think that turbo is far enough away from std spec to need a custom map, personally, as I recall my turbo used to hit full boost (on low 15psi setting) at 3k rpm with a full exhaust.

I have been out of the game for a while though

Rich

[pizzaboy]

I would personally set your actuator up to 14psi and then fine-tune using the profec B. My standard 120k mile T28 was holding ~14psi with a profec b and a std actuator.

I don't think that turbo is far enough away from std spec to need a custom map, personally, as I recall my turbo used to hit full boost (on low 15psi setting) at 3k rpm with a full exhaust.

I have been out of the game for a while though

Rich

I asked about that in this thread: http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=400372 . It can still cause an instability as other folk have found? Did you experience such issues?

[Richy_Boy]

My only reference in the real world was when I had an S13 and an adjustable actuator.. that was very stable and boost came in about as quick as possible.

When I had my S14a I only had a profec and it struggled to maintain boost, possibly due to a weak std actuator, so I'd rather assume that you would want to set your actuator in such a way that your Profec has to do minimal work.

[rgfinn]

hi mate, hows things?
do you have a recirc bov? the standard ones can leak at higher boost. no chance of a boost leak either? could explain the engine running rich at the top end.
just a though.
i'd get it mapped though

man that car inspired me when i skidded it at teeside
must send you a pic lol

[pizzaboy]

Alright there Finn Yeah the car simply needs a chip as everyone above has stated. I had 30 min to set up the Profec with the new HKS actuator that went in the night before the rr day last Saturday. I noticed the spike from 0.9bar(13psi) to almost 1Bar (14.5ish psi) at low rpms (peak hold showed it) but it was for such a split second moment and at low rpm so I left it as it was until it got rr'd next morning.

I've dropped the Profec B boost to 0.8 and "start boost" to 0.7, gain remains at 40% and there is no spike now so this should relate to the AFR not spazzing out as much (since the two are corrolating with each other) so I'll be ok for a practice day this Sunday. Still feels fast for me though.
I was informed a possibility is the BB turbo, on initial spool, is placing too high a demand too quickly and early for the stock s14 ECU/map to handle with higher settings. I shall buy the chip very soon and it'll be much better all round.

Thanks for the help and advice all

[martinbattye]

fuelling is yards out.
should be not torque dip with stable boost. which yours isnt tooo bad

the lean spike will be because of the boost coming in earlier than with the stock solenoid and control setup.

overall. i reckon that feels flat as a pancake on the road. and i'd also bet the plugs show signs of det.. lean peak torque is big nooooooo. wants to be loads richer there.

set the boost controller to bring the boost on slower.

also fuelling is going very rich up top cos your outside of intended load sites.

get a powerfc on it.. or a Link G4 storm.

you have good parts combo.. time to make the most out of that!

[pizzaboy]

fuelling is yards out.
should be not torque dip with stable boost. which yours isnt tooo bad

the lean spike will be because of the boost coming in earlier than with the stock solenoid and control setup.

overall. i reckon that feels flat as a pancake on the road. and i'd also bet the plugs show signs of det.. lean peak torque is big nooooooo. wants to be loads richer there.

set the boost controller to bring the boost on slower.

also fuelling is going very rich up top cos your outside of intended load sites.

get a powerfc on it.. or a Link G4 storm.

you have good parts combo.. time to make the most out of that!

The plugs are ok I've had a look at them. It was only ran like that on the rr and the previous night on one or two runs. I've calmed the settings down as as mentioned above. It actually feels good on the road even with the lower setting. Though the chassis setup, auto diff and weight reduction of the car probably factors into this. I wish I could get a Power FC but financing that will have to wait at the mo. I'm looking into H-Dev chips as mentioned above as well. Should do the job as I'm not looking for big powaaz just entertaining drivability and safe a AFR.

[martinbattye]

thats fair enough.. i dont know much about the nistune??? is this a sensible money option?? someone clarify

i had a norris chip on my s13 when i bought .. it borewashed it nicely.. well done semen norris.

i was thinking maybe you could use a safc.. need to be careful with that tho cos to pull that much fuel you'll be moving way off normal load site and will be advanced spark.. so check for knock also.

when a car feels good when its that far out you'd be sooo amazed at what a pukka tune could do for you.

[pizzaboy]

I thought about the SAFC and found out a friend recently gave one away aargh!. I'm actually really thinking of a Nistune atm but can't justify it yet. For more info check the website: http://www.nistune.com/ .

Since Blue Boy mentioned it I started looking into them and fook me I don't know why people are looking to buy Power FCs with something like the Nistune now on offer in the UK. As mentioned in a another thread Steve Sadler of FC Tuning supplies them. The problem is noone up in Scotland has proper experience in calibrating it and I'd rather not make a 1000+ mile round trip to Steve when I'm essentially just around stage 2ish. H-Dev generic will do till I get more money methinks.
I think it'll be more than enough at my level for the time being and, as you say, if my cars on the road performance is putting a smile on my face in its current state the chip will really improve things.

The Nistune is on the horizon definately as a future upgrade. Check the link and see what you think of it.

[Evilchap]

Try talking nicely to Steve, a plane ticket for him is only going to be £50 Then you'll have everything mapped as per your car, rather than generically

[sideways14a]

Righto...

Find out what the injectors are (Greys??)

Get it chipped (see Jez) and run it at 1 bar (if they are stock 370s)

If not then its a custom map.

AFR is a total shambles at the moment.