Project Research - S17 Silvia Concept

[docwra]

Docwra, age 30, based Cambridge

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?
2x S12's, 2xS13's, one S13 Silvia, one S14 and a 350Z. Has S-chassis for about 10 years now

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?
PErformance and relatively low cost, coupled with japanese reliability.

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?
Rear wheel drive, good performance, 2+2 layout.

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?
Yes - the 370Z strikes me as being more of a GT car and the GT-R is not involving enough to drive. A lightweight FR car with decent power is something every manufacturer needs.

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?
Believe it when I see it.

6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)
As above - RWD, good power, relatively low weight, involving driving experience and preferably 2+2

[Plus4E]

Hello

Please could you include your age, sex, location and occupation along with your comments.

35, male, Kent, Senior Technical Consultant

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?

S14 for 4years, now building S13 prototype

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?

RWD, turbo charged and affordable.

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?

RWD in that bracket is dying off, unless you buy a beemer or merc. There's just nothing else really, certainly in the 2-4k second hand car market. I don't buy new cars though, and would not buy a new slivia, but I might when it was 10 years old

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?

Sure, why not? The Z32, S13 and R32 all coexisted at one point.

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?

Don't know much about it TBH. Ugly?

6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)

Turbo charged L4 Maybe bigger block than predecessors. 2.3?

7) Any other comments/opinions?

Nope.

[skyshack]

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?
S13 '91 Exec 8.5 years 80-175K miles.
S13 '90 scrap 5 years
S13 '94 3 Months (fully loaded Sunday best)

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?
The S12 went on list from day it first appeared in showroom, performance and practicality. Then S13 came out ... after that nothing else would do. Parker's guide "dangerous in the wrong hands" pretty much hit the mark.

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?
Looks and is sleek, CdA is still close to worlds best for a 2+2 (same as Mclaren F1).
Turning circle.
Low roof height that makes it a proper sports coupe and not a 1.4m tall wannabe (It's lower than current 911 and only 2cm taller than old ones).
Low bonnet line giving a low flank at the front wheel arch, this is vital for stylish car. Putting a big bulge in the bonnet to get low shoulders is cheating and won't stand up in the long term.
Multilink rear suspension.

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?
Yes as 370Z moves up market.
No. Too many people want living rooms on wheels, full of all the toys they had in the pram. The few that want a sports coupe will go for pure 2 seat. Then there is a large group that can be conned into thinking an Astra SportHatch, Megane Coupe or Ibiza 1.2 Sports Coupe really are Sports Coupes.

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?Unprintable if it don't have a hatch.

6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)I want an S13 only BETTER.
Same or better CdA as S13, target 0.52-0.53m².
Same or better 2+2 space as S13 (defo not less), ie 3-5cm more rear leg room.
Practical fastback hatch that can take 3m copper pipe and space for bike without removing wheel.
Turning circle under 9.5m.
Pop up headlamps.

Same or better power/weight as S15, 280bhp
Alloy chassis, rot/dint free plastic outer panels.

7) Any other comments/opinions?
That's the RS-X badged one sorted, you can make lower tune ones for the undemanding entry level buyer.

50, Male, Midlands, FEA Stress Engineer

Sorry but I just could never bring myself to buy a brand new car. The miser in me just couldn't cope with the loss on first using it. The brand new car buyer is who you have to sell the car to, not someone that's willing to buy a car with 10 owners in 9 years.

[Streetmekanik]

Please could you include your age, sex, location and occupation along with your comments.

36/M/ Oslo, Norway

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?

200sx S14 since 2004.

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?

Value and performance.

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?

RWD, Turbo, drivability, tuning posibilities. Offers true driving pleasure.

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?

Yes, if it lighter than the 370Z.

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?

I have not been overwhelmed by the sketches. The 1.6l turbo 250bhp with low CO2 I like alot.

6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)

Sleek coupe looks / the above mentioned engine / RWD/LSD. However it should be alot lighter than the Z`s or there is no point to the car. I think Nissan should go back to something closer to the S13, and it does not need to be superpractical. Save weight, smaller fuel tank, washer bottle etc.

7) Any other comments/opinions?

Cars like the A5, Scirocco and other FWD coupes leave room in the market for a Silvia. The MX-5 and S2000 are great cars, but some of us love our tin tops, there is room in the market.

[charlay]

19, male, East Sussex

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?
Nissan 200sx S13 for 10 months, worked on/with/looking to buy an S14

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?
good quality/performance/effeciency for market range and ecost, most importantly handling and image.

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?
rear wheel drive with great handling, effeciency of the power plant(specific output and relative consumption, performance of a competitors 2.0-3.0 6 cylinder engine from a 1.8/2.0 with better comparibly fuel consumption)

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?
yes;
a) It would add to nissans model range, widening their markets for those that want hot hatch type cars(focus, astra ctr etc), small sports cars(mx5/s2000 - s2000 is ending production!) or equivilants, with the sportback/fastback/coupe looks/status.
b) Competitor for the Subaru/Toyota new FR platform light sports coupe, which will be using ~2.0 boxer engines and a modern lightweight FR platform.
c) There is a place in the market for more novel performance/touring vehicles. Especially with many manufaturers omitting a lightweight entry level performance vehicle or more appealing tourer(as opposed to rep mobile 4 door boring german cars and hatchbacks) Also models like the Civic type R prove around the 20k area performance hatchbacks don't neccisarily need to be as fast as the rest to sell well and have a following.
d) RWD handling and turbocharged effeciency/punch would distinguish it from the others. Where Honda's distinguish with high RPM vtec effect, mazda 3 mps is just raw power in a soft collected chassis, Astra VXR/megan R27 are well though out turbo hatches with decent enough handling.

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?
Understand the design direction, especially when your compare them to moder Nissan/inifinit(and stealing lexus to an extent) styling, however i don't feel it will sell on asthetics as it is, needs some rethinking. Some images leaked/created on the web of convepts look much better and could get my vote. More in line with a silvia body form, still a bit bland and not as good looking as the hyundai coupe concepts/new models


6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)
strange as it would be to achieve i think a mix of S15, S13 and R35.
I think the fastback design concept of an S13 would appeal to the most people as their a lot more practical in use. GTR esque headlights mixed to a S15 style rear end modernised a bit.

powertrain/drivetrain:
has to be FR layout
an updated multi-link rear end thats a little better in toe control would be good
Power train needs to up the game a little more, i think we should be comparing it to a Neo VVL model SR, and other modern highly effecient power trains like the BMW 335i, the Golf TSI twin charger.
needs a decent LSD ala S15 unit
I would suggest employing a tried and tested VVL design, the SR16VE and SR20VET set a nice honda like benchmark for factory specific output which is good, but overcomplicating a new VVT/VVL design could cause cost and reliability worries. If possible the SR20VET updated and tuned for greater effeciency would be very much suitable Stick a modern ball bearing VNT28 turbo on it and make a nice strong wide power band 2500-7500rpm. I don't think chasing power should be the plan, response and effeciency with a fair amount of power, in the region of 220-280, it needs to stay light though, has to be under 1350kg IMO.
If a new engine is to be designed, i'd vote for a 1.6 or 1.8 turbocharged power unit, if specific output similar to the golf TSI can be attained with a little difference in boost response(no supercharger, keep it simple) a 200bhp lightweight 1.6 in a 1200kg car woud be amazing, a 250bhp 1300kg car with better response than an S15! use a smaller turbocharger and a crazier lift Neo VVL/vtec style top end provided.

7) Any other comments/opinions?

[Teggers]

I'm 31, male, in Devon and a store manager.

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?
S13 (prefancelift) for 6 months and was gutted to have to sell. Now owned a S14a for 10 months.

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?
Sporty styling, reputation (thats gone downhill in the 3 years I've been on here!) pure driver enjoyment and last but not least, the great owners club

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?
Driveability, its a fairly understated car and its rarity now. Plus, very well put together not just thrown together as a parts bin special like some...

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?
Yes. Would have to be priced competitively (possibly around £16k for the base spec) though as the 370Z has the £20k+ market. Not much point competing with yourself!

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?
Not really heard much but I'd be excited at the thought of a successor the the S15. Then probably disappointed when it rolls out looking like everything else on the marker

6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)
Ideally I think it should keep with the turbo'd FR layout. Possibly a 4-pot or a v6 or straight 6 would be nice developing anything from 250bhp up. To look subtle and understated but purposeful (NOT like the merc slk as one of the pics does) a bespoke engine/chassis would be good but may not be cost effective for what would, in all likelihood, be a low volume car.

7) Any other comments/opinions?
Not at this time. Good luck with the project

[voodoo_melon]

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?
S13 - 4 months, S13 - 18 months, S14a - 16 months

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?
Price, value for money, relatively unknown

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?
Most people don't know WTF it is.

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?
Yes

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?
Looks like a cross between a squashed S15, Merc SLK and Infiniti G35

6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)
FR layout, turbocharged.

26, male, IT person

[samoht]

0) 28, Male, Croydon, Software Developer.
1) i) 1991 Silvia PS13 Q's (SR20DE), Nov 2003 - Aug 2004
ii) 1994 180SX (SR20DET), Dec 2007 to present (expected to keep for at least 5 years total).
2)
Cheap
Came with manual gearbox (a rarity in Japan)
More powerful than most 'ordinary' cars
Good looking, elegant styling
Solid, 'connected', confidence-inspiring steering feel on test drive

3)
Performance/price ratio
RWD
lighter than most saloon-based coupes
more practical than pure sports cars like the MX-5
Good aftermarket support
More reliable and well-built than most French/Italian cars

4)
Yes, but it has to be significantly cheaper to buy and run than the 370Z, while still being fast and attractive.

5)
I don't anticipate Nissan releasing another performance model in the current economic and environmental climate, since they already have the 370Z to sell. The 'new Silvia' has been a common rumour among over-excitable Japanese magazines for years now, but it hasn't appeared. I'm also sceptical that Nissan would be able to make a coupe meaningfully lighter than the 370Z at a lower price, yet if it isn't lighter then I'm not sure what the point will be.
However, I definitely think there should be a new Silvia.

6)
I think that the Silvia has to represent more than just a de-contented 370Z. The concept of an 'affordable performance car' is currently under attack from the government, who are applying 'green' taxes thus making fast cars more expensive to run.

The Silvia has always been an affordable performance car, and needs to continue being affordable in an oil-scarce future. Ironically, other manufacturers are doing what Nissan did in the eighties, i.e. installing smaller turbo engines in place of big normally aspirated ones. The new Silvia should have a small 4 cylinder engine (perhaps 1.8 or even smaller), with direct injection and a variable geometry turbocharger. This will give good usable performance, good throttle response, very good economy, and at the same time allow potential for aftermarket tuning. I would see this as being in the spirit of Silvias past.
The other half of teh equation is weight. This is very challenging, however I would hope that a new Silvia would be lighter than the 370Z. However, it also needs to be stronger and more crash-worthy than the old cars, and almost certainly wants to have rear seats that the Z doesn't. Realistically, the price point rules out the use of expensive lightweight materials. Perhaps 1400kgs would be a realistic target, although 1250 would be much better. Clever design solutions are required, and Mazda's success in cutting weight from their Demio and MX-5 should be studied closely. A light car gains in both driving experience and running costs, which make a pretty compelling case even after newer, more advanced competition may arrive.

Handling is an area where standards have really moved on since the eighties, and I would expect a new Silvia to be up with modern BMWs, generally considered the benchmark for FR chassis, but more agile due to being shorter, lower and lighter than the saloon-based Beemers. It should be comfortable enough to be relaxing for touring (as the current cars are), while being sharp enough to enjoy attacking a good road.

Personally, the 180SX attracted me partly due to its practicality - I can put two mountain bikes in the back only removing a single wheel, and the load area is also good for all sorts of bulky cargo. So a fastback boot with a decent amount of space is a real attraction, compared to cars like the MX-5, Boxster etc.

Styling is extremely important to selling a sports coupe like the Silvia, and the relative sales of S14s compared to the S13 clearly indicate this. I would be looking for a simple, clean, elegant shape without the fussy surfacing that seems to be considered 'cutting-edge' today, and then focus on getting the ride height and wheel/tyre package right, finishing with close attention to detailing (lights, windows etc) to make the car attractive. The overall shape shouldn't have the high scuttle that characterises many hatchbacks and hatch-derived sports cars, but a low beltline, decent-sized windows and a lowish roofline.

7) I don't anticipate an S16 arriving any time soon, so I would suggest you simply focus on a 'new Silvia' rather than worrying about proposing a successor to a car that doesn't yet exist.

The genius of the Silvia / SX is that it doesn't really have any good rivals; it is a great combination of agility and practicality, speed and affordability, all wrapped up in a stylish body and Japanese build quality. I reckon that if the new car achieves all of these strengths, it would sell well, almost regardless of the financial or environmental constraints it may face.

[Ron Bones]

Age: 23 Based: Derby Occupation: Sign maker

I'm starting this course at coventry in september! Hope I get to draw a load of 200's!

1) What models of Silvia or SX Variants have you owned, and for how long?
Just my 13, which I've had since last september but I wouldnt get rid of it for the world!

2) What first attracted you to previous models in the Silvia range?
Low cost performance, good looks, and fun drive.

3) In your opinion, what aspects of the car(s) make it stand out from its competitors?
Rear wheel drive, more fun, relatively rare, great looks.

4) Do you see a place for a new Silvia model in the Nissan range?
Yes, they still have a z and a skyline, but theyre a little out of reach of most and will be bought by different people than buy would buy the s.

5) What are your opinions of the rumoured S16 Silvia concept?
Dont like the concepts, looks european; alfa/ new scirroco ish.

6) What would you look for in a new Silvia model? (Looks/power source/drivetrain etc)
RWD, light weight, small ish trurbo engine (not just the 6 from the 370 or similar) pop up lights!!

[Streetmekanik]

Thread revival. Did this pan out into something.

[skyshack]

It was just a Uni project.

Thread revival. Did this pan out into something.

Guy only made 5 posts, all to this thread and hasn't been seen in a long time.
Last Activity 18-06-2010