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Thread: Tyre size question

  1. #21
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    You do what you like Vova matey.

    As I said, all I need to do is walk outside and take two minutes looking at my pride and joy. 205/55's x 16's on the front on 7.5 x 35 BK Racing BK 82's, quite cheerfully clearing the strut and arch with no contact issues when static, full bump, full droop or on the move. Perhaps you want photos ? Or maybe I should nip up to Sideways place and get a written affidavit from him ? Let's see the photos of these mythical 7 x 40's touching strut first before I can be arsed.

    And two minutes maths to work out that your apocryphal 7 x 40's should give an additional 1.25 mm clearance over that.... so even less of a problem.

    From all of which I KNOW that you are talking out of your backside, as per usual.
    Last edited by Rochester; 20-04-2008 at 12:58.

  2. #22
    Banned Vova's Avatar
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    So do you take the sig-bet-deal or not, come 'on, you think you are so right don't you, if you are right, you have nothing to fear, right?

  3. #23
    Banned Vova's Avatar
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    Instead of editing your posts thrice, just say : Yes, if you provide the photo's where 7J ET40 wheels on 205/55/16's are hitting the spring-dish, I will put in my sig "Vova is right, I'm wrong". If you are chicken..than it says more about your backside talking than mine doesn't it

  4. #24
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    As I said, you do what you like mate, life is very much too short to give two seconds more thought to anything you come out with of a supposedly technical nature.

    Lord help us all and this forum if someone takes some of your 'advice' published on here at face value and ends up getting injured in the accident which follows.

  5. #25
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    Last edited by Sideways Danny; 20-04-2008 at 13:06.

  6. #26
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    Oh, and for the assistance of the Original Poster / anyone else with the same size rims, 7.5 x 16's et35, I have 225/50's x 16 on the back end of the car, and they just clear the strut by a close (but sufficient) 2 - 3mm or so.

    The 225's don't fit on the front. Sidewall rubs on spring seat and spring on standard shocks. A 5 mm or so spacer would probably do it, but I haven't tried it and I don't know how close to the arch that would take the outer wall of the tyre...
    Last edited by Rochester; 20-04-2008 at 13:19.

  7. #27
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideways Danny View Post
    LMAOROTFL

    and DVITBFTMFW - only for 'Valve' substitute 'Vova....' - it still makes perfect sense !
    Last edited by Rochester; 20-04-2008 at 13:12.

  8. #28
    Banned Vova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochester View Post
    As I said, you do what you like mate, life is very much too short to give two seconds more thought to anything you come out with of a supposedly technical nature.

    Lord help us all and this forum if someone takes some of your 'advice' published on here at face value and ends up getting injured in the accident which follows.
    In other words :

    Image removed by docwra

  9. #29
    Guest New200guy's Avatar
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    since this thread will probably be locked soon....OP get the 205/55/16's and fit them and let us know if they work out or not.

  10. #30
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    I have bought the rims and the tyres, when I get them, soon as possible I will post some pictures, and I hope the drama will end

  11. #31
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Could we calm it down please gentlemen - if Mr Rochester asserts that he is running this combination on his car with no problems I think we can leave it there for now. I have removed your picture Vova as its not really helping anything.

    Id also like to preserve this for posterity:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sideways Danny View Post
    7j and et50
    Thats weaker than my nan on a hunger strike.
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  12. #32
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    This is what I actually waiting for:





    In fact, these tyres and rims are not that I wanted, but here is very difficult to find some nice rims. The choice is, how to say, not so big.
    So, this is, I will post some pictures when I get them in my hands, and trying to fit them to the car. ..

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    Thats weaker than my nan on a hunger strike.
    it was 2002 and i sold them for a profit

  14. #34
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by docwra View Post
    if Mr Rochester asserts that he is running this combination on his car with no problems I think we can leave it there for now.
    No probs Doc, but just for clarity and the avoidance of doubt the original poster (nice rims btw !) was asking about running 205/55 x 16's on 7.5 x 16's et40.

    My car was and is cheerfully running 205 x 55's on 7.5 x 16's et35. With that 35 offset and on a standard suspension setup my wheels and tyres do definitely run clear of the strut, spring and spring seat without rubbing or fouling, but not by very much; 2 - 3 mm or so. Adequate but not much more than that (225's on the same rims definitely don't clear).

    To quote my original reply to this thread it was (and still is) my view that:

    "40 mm offset on a 7.5 inch rim would be almost hitting the strut and spring even with standard 195 tyres. You need at least a 5 if not 8 to 10 mm spacer (and longer studs) to move the wheel out".

    ie. for absolute clarity that I do not think that because my wheels clear my strut the OP's proposed combo will clear his as well. The opposite, I do not think that it will clear. With an offset of et40 I believe that he will need spacers. I trust that the OP appreciates this fact before committing to buy and that he has not been distracted or misled by our subsequent scenic detour irrelevant to the OP's proposed combo, care of the intervention of our vociferous Dutch friend in his usual way.

    Plus which I am always cautious about saying that because 'X' setup works on car A 'X' will always work on car B..... 'tain't necessarily so. Anything but. Even supposedly identical OEM suspension set ups can vary in geometry quite cheerfully by a millimetre here and a millimetre there, depending on how all the bits have been bolted up, the state of the rubber in the bushes and the wear in any bolt holes. Although these variances may be small the effect is multiplied by the length over which it is applied.

    So as little as a half a millimeter to a millimeter variation in the precise position of the front suspension arm bearing relative to the centre line of the car, multiplied in effect by the distance from that bearing to the top inner wall of the tyre can make a surprisingly significant difference. As can any wear in the holes for the strut top nuts, and ditto the two bolt holes connecting strut to hub. Any or all of these three dimensions can easily combine to cause a wheel tyre combo which clears on one car to touch on another or a five milimeter clearance on yet another.... Our vociferous Dutch friend's car may well have clearance issues with 7 x 40's on his precise set up that I wouldn't have on mine for example.

    In passing a useful way of getting a trifle more clearance between tyre inner wall and strut on the fronts and an improvement in overall geometry is to use a pair of Bren's camber correction bolts in the top hole of the strut / hub. Two improvements for the price of one relatively cheap pair of bolts, gotta be good !

    Setting the lobe to max out pushes the top of the wheel and tyre outwards and away from the strut, increasing clearance. At the same time it usefully (and fairly obviously, given the name ) reduces negative camber. A damn good thing in itself and definitely necessary if you are running lowered suspension - even a very modest drop in my experience* - as otherwise goodbye to the inner edge of your tyres.



    * Although I no longer run lowered springs owing to the prevalence of country potholes and control freak local authority speedbumps I did try them for a while. Only a modest drop on Chassis Dynamics and with track and toe in checked and properly set etc. And which completely wrecked a nice set of nearly new front tyres in less than 4K miles as a result.... Bald as a coot round the inner edges whilst to the casual eye seeming to be OK and exhibiting plenty of tread across the middle and outer edge. Learnt my lesson, camber bolts on pronto. They work and they are relatively cheap, can't say fairer than that !
    Last edited by Rochester; 22-04-2008 at 17:36.

  15. #35
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    PS. When fitting and adjusting camber bolts its a useful tip to put a fleck of tippex on the head of the bolt corresponding to the top of the eccentric cam in the middle of the bolt - which of course you can't see when it is inside the hub knuckle !

    PPS. Happy 21st birthday for the end of the Month in case I otherwise miss it Vova....

  16. #36
    Banned Vova's Avatar
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    Indeed the manufacturing and/or wear-tolerances may give the needed or lack of clearance for a certain rim-wheel combo. Because I *know*, while I have seen with my own eyes, hands and a piece of



    that it júst fitted between the wheel and spring-perch on 7J ET40 205/55/16, that it won't fit. Well it'll júst fit but the car will have no room to roll.

    @ Camber bolts:

    While reducing camber may indeed be good for tire wear. Some prefer some more negative camber for traction reasons, especially for getting rid of the dreadful understeer in sweepers by enhancing camber thrust.

    Actually you don't need camber-bolts to add/reduce camber. Something I just recently worked out as a idea. If you file the struts upper hole, where the upper bolt goes thru holding the knuckle, making it a cleft, you can tilt the knuckle towards the in or outside, effectively adding/removing negative camber. This way (unlike with camber bolts) you maintain the added safety from the big bolt (= more clamping force) and you maintain the safety from the lower bolt that fits snug (well almost / manuf. tolerances) and counters up/down - left-right forces with its hole body.

    @ PPS

    Thanks!

  17. #37
    Guest Rochester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vova View Post
    Good God ! What is it..... not..... no, it can't be.... a Masonic apron ???!!!!???!!!!

    Gasp. Grand Rank in one so young.....

    No wonder you know all the answers....

    Seriously tho, I really really wouldn't advise slotting the top hole of the strut to bearing knuckle. No matter how tight it seems you've done up those big old bolts with a breaker bar etc the constant pounding of road impacts will inevitably cause the bolt to creep back along the slot and introduce side to side differentials and unpredictabilities.

    Camber bolts may be thinner in diameter but they're made of better quality steel that gives the same strength as the thicker originals (I wouldn't ever expect Bren to sell anything less than an OEM or better quality item) and they provide the security of metal to metal contact between the eccentric lobe, knuckle and strut.

    Slotting.... cheap and cheery and I did it in the past when I was your age but I definitely wouldn't do it now. Unless I went to the bother of not only slotting but then welding a pair of washers either side of the strut to create a firmly held circular hole again. And then you have to be bloody precise with your positioning and welding to end up with the right and the same camber on both sides of the car. The beauty of the camber bolts is also their adjustability, a wee tweak here and another there and you're set up balanced on both sides with a setup and geometry that isn't going to be jarred out of place by road to wheel impact and vibration.
    Last edited by Rochester; 22-04-2008 at 18:11.

  18. #38
    Banned Vova's Avatar
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    I see your point in camber bolts and I too was thinking to slot, align and weld washers so I never have to align again and have the security.

    However I have talked about this Idea with a expirienced mechanic and engineer and with a chassis-restore mechanic and the last one actually told me they sometimes slot and weld rings to the strut to "trick" the sturt back into alignment. He also told me Volkswagen had slots like my idea in the past and so did some other cars but because of new manufacturing methods, designers believed tolerances were so little, no adjustment is needed anymore.

    I also took the liberty to discuss it here, where Mr. Jon H points out to the enourmous clamping force the stock bolt can provide, which is all that you need so (not to be arrogant) I'm not afraid of it moving about:
    http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=347826

    The only thing I am afraid of, is that welding washers in will remove any chance of adjustability (unless I saw the weld) in case tire wear gets too horrific.

  19. #39
    Self confessed player of the pink oboe docwra's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm - I dont puport to be any kind of expert on this subject, but it does seem to me that the slot and hole technique is a bit of a cheapo solution, and as such would not be as reliable as something like a camber bolt - if my Ł1500 coilovers knock themselves off true in a few months then Id be surprised if slot and hole would work ..........

    Having said that, as I said to you last night Vova - prove us wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by scimmy ben
    I get the feeling that this would only work if we could pursuade Ernest Borgnine to drive the Isle of Wight to Portsmouth hovercraft.
    Quote Originally Posted by sprout
    After I shave my balls swarfega helps soothe, but means the hair grows back quite quickly, so give it a go

  20. #40
    Banned Vova's Avatar
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    I'll do my best In case you don't hear anything from me in the coming days, I might be dead from a strut/knuckle failure resulting in a roll off a mountain hill.. than you can consider I was wrong

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