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Thread: 10 Step Guide What to do if you are pulled by the police.

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    10 Step Guide What to do if you are pulled by the police.

    As requested.

    1. Stop safely and try and get out and meet them at their car. I like to knock on their window and ask them politely “Could you step out of your vehicle please constable”. It disarms them if you are so quick off the point and can fluster inexperienced plod. Remember confidence is everything. Don’t appear frightened, just respectful and confident.

    2. Be polite. They are just doing a job. If you act like a nob you are just going to wind them up.

    3. Take notes. (Leave a note pad and pen in your car.)

    4. Record what they say. Note particulars like where they were parked, where they saw you, names, numbers, constabulary name, station name, distance covered, location of stop, irregularities in signs or road markings etc…

    5. Eat humble pie without admitting any guilt.

    6. Non-committal answers only. (eg. Do you know were speeding? I wasn't aware that I had contravened any speed limits. Practice answering with a question – What speed you were doing? Err Why, are you going to tell me?)

    7. Don't produce any documents at all, other than a bank card to show your identity. (Even if you do have them). Accept a producer and designate a police station somewhere convenient for you. If you show a licence with points marked on it they are less likely to let you off. Additionally, you can check your documents at home and make sure they are in order. (eg. Names address, MOT in date etc.) If your MOT is out of date just get a new one immediately. Present the new one and state you don’t have the old one and can’t remember where it was done so you can’t get a reprint. CPS won’t prosecute you – waste of time if you have a valid MOT)

    8. If they are reasonable and let you off that’s great. If not check their vehicle for visible defects. Tyres, number plates, lights (if on), visible damage, road tax etc… You can do this discretely or blatantly.

    9. If they offer you a summons or ticket choose the ticket. You can still go to court on a ticket if you want to fight it. If they fill in a ticket check it thoroughly, don’t point out mistakes. Normally you are asked if you want to make a statement. Make no statement or simply deny the allegation. (Eg: I deny the allegation and believe the constables have made a mistake) They will probably be annoyed but just point out it’s not personal and apologise if they are offended).

    10. Upon returning to your car sort your self out. Don’t set off in a rush. Sort your seat belt and set off safely. If you haven’t finished making notes pull up safely as soon as possible and record any other factors that you think might be important. Some people are also shaken up by the experience. Have a coffee and chill out for a while if you are. See legal advice or email me. You have admitted nothing and have a right to defend yourself in court.

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    If a police officer attempts to prosecute you for something, say speeding, and they are driving a car with no road tax displayed, they have broken the law and therefore, you could argue that the evidence is inadmisable under the Police and criminal evidence act. Section 78 I think.or is it 73 or 76. anyway, it basically states that police can't just act willy nilly in blatant disregard of the law in order to get evidence.

    If they have to withdraw the evidence of the police constable, they have no case.

    It is also worth noting, that many coppers park on the motorway hardshoulder or slip road. This is an offence. It is covered under one of the motorway regulations. I complained about tis very act and the chief constable replied stating that North yorkshire police weren't supposed to park on the hard shoulder of a motorway designated road.

    I have yet to play this card in court.

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    Guest Storm's Avatar
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    Pete,

    Scamera van's are not covered by this ruling so I guess neither will the police. If you are alleged to have been caught speeding (for instance) by a scamera van illegally parked then it makes no difference in a magistrates court, who incidently along with the CPS are part of the scamera partnerships. Unjust? You bet.

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    They are not above the law. If the camera van was parked illegally you are entitled to argue that the evidence is inadmissable. It would require a court appearance though.

    The police are not allowed to break the law of the land unless they have an exemption in law. For example, the police cannot exceed the national speed limit to get home for lunch. They can however, break the speed limit to respond to a robbery in progress. They still do it, I know, you know. But they shouldn't.

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    Another example. You won't see mobile camera's parked on the hardshoulder of a motorway. It is illegal to stop on a motorway hardshoulder unless you are complying with an exemption. Eg, breakdown, accident etc..

    If a camera was set up and the excuse was that the police were exempt since they were in pursuit of their duties the following argument would apply.

    At the time the camera was set up no cars were reported to be breaking the law. Therefore, the police were not fulfilling their duties and as a result they are not entitled to park their.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo pete
    If a police officer attempts to prosecute you for something, say speeding, and they are driving a car with no road tax displayed, they have broken the law and therefore, you could argue that the evidence is inadmisable under the Police and criminal evidence act. .
    Would you need evidence of this in court then or would you explain it to the officer whilst you're being stopped?

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    Guest Storm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo pete
    They are not above the law. If the camera van was parked illegally you are entitled to argue that the evidence is inadmissable. It would require a court appearance though.

    The police are not allowed to break the law of the land unless they have an exemption in law. For example, the police cannot exceed the national speed limit to get home for lunch. They can however, break the speed limit to respond to a robbery in progress. They still do it, I know, you know. But they shouldn't.

    While I appreciate you are correct in the point you have made a good defense for a murder charge would not be "but the police where parked on double yellow lines when I was arreseted"

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    Officer? No such thing in the police. Non of them are commisioned, like in the military.


    I wouldn't explain anything to a constable. It wouldn't be for him to decide in any case. It would be the courts decision to have the evidence withdrawn. I wouldn't even tell CPS. I'd spring it upon them in court. Although a photo or witness would be nice to prove it.

    You could also bring human rights into it as well.
    Last edited by turbo pete; 11-12-2004 at 09:17.

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    Right to a fair trial. It isn't fair for you to be prosecuted for an offence if the police are commiting the very same offence.

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    I think I have got the wrong end of the stick. Still half asleep. The police can violate laws when in pursuit of an individual who has commit a crime. So they could stop where they liked if they were going to arrest a murderer. But setting up a camera is in the hope that they might catch a criminal, since at the time of set up no known offence is being commited they can't stop where they like.

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    Guest Storm's Avatar
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    Pete,

    The very question of whether the police or scamera partnerships can park on chevrons, double yellows, verges etc has been tested in several cases that have appeared on www.pepipoo.com.

    In all cases the defendant has not been able to use this as a defence, speeding is an absolute crime and unfortunately the authorities who know better can get away with things generally law abiding joe public can't.

    As you probably know the scamera partnerships are supposed to have warning signs out, be highly visible, the operator is supposed to stand outside the vehicle in day glo clothing, do they? No! Why? Becasue the rules are not rules but guide lines and cannot be used in a court as a defense.

    Angry? Me? Yeah you bet
    Last edited by Storm; 11-12-2004 at 12:35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Storm
    As you probably know the scamera partnerships are supposed to have warning signs out, be highly visible, the operator is supposed to stand outside the vehicle in day glo clothing, do they? No! Why? Becasue the rules are not rules but guide lines and cannot be used in a court as a defense.
    Hmm... this bit interests me.

    The other day, as I was discreetly going about my usual business, I saw three members of plod running a speedtrap using a hand held speed gun.

    The two who were doing the actual pulling, were dressed in flourescent gear, and until the other chap had clocked someone doing over the limit, were hiding out of sight round a corner.

    The chap operating the gun, was dressed in his standard black police uniform, without a hat or helmet, and was standing behind a lamppost at the end of a very long straight within a 40 limit.

    So... was I right in thinking they were breaking their own guidelines as laid down by the Government at the same time as when they decreed all fixed cameras must be highly visible, i.e: yellow?

    I did make an attempt to sneak a couple of pics on my phone as 'evidence', but they appeared to clocked me loitering about unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC123
    So... was I right in thinking they were breaking their own guidelines as laid down by the Government at the same time as when they decreed all fixed cameras must be highly visible, i.e: yellow?
    Off the top of my head I can't remember who lays the guidlines down but I don't think it comes from government. If need be I can find out.

    As for the camera's being painted yellow, they still do not have to be it's up to the relevant authority if they make them visible or not

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    ACPO give guidance on speed enforcement. The Assocaition of Chief police officers.

    I can't see any cases on pepipoo relating to defence on the ground of PACE.

    The act states

    In any proceedings the court may refuse to allow evidence on which the prosecution proposes to rely to be given if it appears to the court that, having regard to all the circumstances, including the circumstances in which the evidence was obtained, the admission of the evidence would have such an adverse effect on the fairness of the proceedings that the court ought not to admit it.

    Clear as clear to me. I don't think I have heard any one using it as a defence in a speeding case.. It isn't enough to point out the police have behaved unfairly. One has to state to the magistrate that it is in your opinion that the evidence is inadmissable, and state why.

    Otherwise they will browbeat you into submission, fine you and start on the next victim.

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    Guest Storm's Avatar
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    Pete,

    Quite right it is ACPO that sets the guidelines.

    As for the PACE arguement, take a look at this, it's not speeding related but should help to open the flood gates:-

    http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3882974

    As for your other comments, that was my point (sorry if there was any confusion), just crying foul at the way evidence was gathered is not enough, you have to prove it has had a direct effect on your rights in law.

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    I knew that would be the get out when I heard the story earlier at work. Giving a breath specimen is asking you to provide evidence of your guilt. A caution must be given or your rights have been violated. Evidence is inadmissable.


    The police should know better. It is no surprise that he got off. He should know better than anyone what the score is.

    But he had done what I keep telling people to do. Don't roll over, go and fight it and make them prove anything they are suggesting. Still, it is disgraceful.


    I personally don't drink at all if I intend to drive. Not even a half at lunchtime. And if I have a skin full the night before i get a lift.

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    No offence Pete but the majority of the advice you've given is incorrect, for instance Police vehilces are tax exempt, they don't need the road fund licence. Even if they weren't, it would not cause evidence to be inadmissable.

    Its nice to see somebody showing an interest but you really need to do a little more research.

    Regards

    Rob

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    They are not exempt from road tax according to the DVLA. They are exempt from the fee. They still have to display the road fund licence. I phoned the DVLA and asked them. They confirmed the above. I guess I could check the legislation next time I have call to visit the law library.

    Do you know which SI it comes under?

    And I'll say again. It is up to you to argue the fact that the admissibility of evidence is unfair under PACE. The court has to decide. Cleraly, if you are being prosecuted for the failure to display a road tax licence and the police car has also failed it isn;t fair and the case would likely be dropped.

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    No offence taken but consider this.

    Why do police cars all display a road fund licence sticker. If they were exempt they wouldn't need to.

    Finally, I have had many people say (including solicitors/barristers) - no you can't do that or no that's not right. My response is usually 19-nil. What's your score?

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    He is right on the tax laws, the military used to come under the same government vehicles blanket where it was not necessary to display tax, but it was removed approx 8 years ago, now tax must be displayed and must pertain to the vehicle in question, although the military/police/nhs don't actually have to pay for the road tax it has to be available and displayed as with any other vehicle.

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