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Thread: Flooding sills and chassis to stop rust.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol View Post
    Love me or hate me.... All I am doing is trying to find a solution to the rust problem..Please don't knock me for that. Jon how many hours have you spent researching this? Zero is my guess - Well I have spent over 40 hours researching the rust problem and the best way to cure it.... Now should I share this information with you?
    Share it with everyone there's no need to get shirty with someone because they have an opinion on something that differs from yours I don't suppose you know the people who write Practical Classics any better than Jon so you could both be wrong as easily as right.

    Let's just get as much information as possible out there to help as many people as possible?

  2. #22
    Member Petrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Used chip fat or vegetable oil is very good for undersealing cars, much better than any product I've found anyway. I don't know how it would perform in the sills, but it might make your car smell a bit funny.

    PMSL

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    If you do decide to use an off the shelf product such as Waxoyl, heat it up in a sink full of warm water before hand and it will work much better.
    Heating it up makes no difference. As soon as it hits the cool steel it thickens. What you typically end up with is a very rippled finish inside the sill. I believe this causes water to puddle in the Wax. The problem being that this water evaporates and since there is very little or no ventilation inside the sills, it has nowhere to go and condenses inside. When I did inside the sills of the S13 I heated them up with a 3KW fan heater until it started to melt and run out. Only time will tell if it worked.



    Some of these products are quite old and technology moves on. I donít think for example, that many members would use T Cut on their cars. There are better products out there. The problem with this type of job is itís irreversible. I would rather not bother than risk doing more harm than good. This is the stuff I am looking at

    http://www.bilthamber.co.uk/dynaxs50.html

    I have spoken to Pete Hamber and he reckons the Dynax S50 is the dogs but then he would. The comparison salt tests on the site certainly look impressive but being the pessimist I am, I am going to conduct my own test. The plan is to coat both corroded and bright steel plates and soak them in a saturated road salt solution. Hope I donít get caught nicking a cup of salt from the grit bin It would be interesting to do the same with Dinitrol to find out which is best

    It says on the Bilt Hamber site that the Swedish Corrosion Institute conducted a thorough investigation into vehicle corrosion by sawing open the bodies of 845 collision-damaged cars manufactured between 1994 and 1997 Ė Imagine doing that! What an arse of a job
    Pete


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  3. #23
    Member Petrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by base-1 View Post
    There's no need to get shirty with someone because they have an opinion on something that differs from yours I don't suppose you know the people who write Practical Classics any better than Jon so you could both be wrong as easily as right.
    First of all I would like to apologise if my posts were "shirty" No I don't know the people that write "Practical Classics" .... Or do I Jon and I have exchanged PM's and I sincerely hope that there are no hard feeling between us

    I now have some mild steel plates to do the corrosion tests Anyone got any Dinatrol?
    Pete


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  4. #24
    Guest Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol View Post

    I now have some mild steel plates to do the corrosion tests Anyone got any Dinatrol?
    I'll find the cash to buy the dinatrol if you can find the 20 years to test it Anything less than 20 years would be meaningless

  5. #25
    Bod Jon's Avatar
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    and I forgot to find the article It was done over about 12months iirc. Piles of magazines to wade through, but I'll find it.

  6. #26
    Guest George's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol View Post
    PMSL



    Heating it up makes no difference. As soon as it hits the cool steel it thickens. What you typically end up with is a very rippled finish inside the sill. I believe this causes water to puddle in the Wax. The problem being that this water evaporates and since there is very little or no ventilation inside the sills, it has nowhere to go and condenses inside. When I did inside the sills of the S13 I heated them up with a 3KW fan heater until it started to melt and run out. Only time will tell if it worked.
    Good idea heating up the sill, but I found that the stuff won't even come out of the tin without being heated first, but then it is a bit nippy in the garage.

  7. #27
    Member Petrol's Avatar
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    Started the test with 2 plates of very slightly corroded steel





    Then applied the wax





    Dynax on the left - Waxoyl on the right. I tried to get a good finish with the waxoyl but failed as you can see. It's also interesting to note that when I moved the 2 sample pieces, my thumbprint remained on the waxoyl but the Dynax was thin enough to cover the area.

    These are going in the salt bath in the morn
    Pete


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  8. #28
    Member Petrol's Avatar
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    Hmmmm interesting, it rained last night but stopped a few hours ago
    Left dynax S-50, middle waxoyl, right untreated




    Pete


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  9. #29
    Guest IKRAM's Avatar
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    Am i right in thinking that the Dynax has removed the surface rust which you started with ?

  10. #30
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    I know nothing about this stuff myself,but often read these threads with interest (Id love to get my car 'de-rusted', fully treated etc. and would be willing to pay some decent money)
    all the confusion surprises me though,
    arent there experts and professionals In this field, ie folk who do this kind of stuff for a livinglooking after priceless old classics or whatever? Or simply just experts in the prevention of the treatment of corrosion in any roughly comparable sort of metal, outdoor machinery or equipment,
    I mean how mysterious can this stuff be?
    Last edited by Colin Gibson; 13-05-2007 at 15:11.

  11. #31
    Banned j4mes's Avatar
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    shit, thats an incredible result from dynax S-50!!!! try leaving them for a longer period

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKRAM View Post
    Am i right in thinking that the Dynax has removed the surface rust which you started with ?
    I canít tell, the Dynax is a dark brown colour. When one of them starts rusting ďproperĒ I will clean them both off with solvent and have a look. The waxoyl treated piece has some discolouring on it though, at this point I donít know what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Gibson View Post
    I mean how mysterious can this stuff be?
    Iím afraid thereís a lot of talked about wax injection products, corrosion removers, paints that remove rust, sealant, anti rust this and protectant that. I have used stone chip in the past and it was about as good as slapping a coat of emulsion on. There are professionals who make a living out of waxoyling cars but I have always had my doubts about it. I posted this some time ago on SXOC

    Waxoyl in box sections

    I have my doubts about waxoyling inside box sections. Hereís why.
    Inside the sills if factory coated with a rustproofing wax. Itís a very thin coat and has a smooth finish. Any water that enters the cavity will naturally run down and out of the drain holes.

    The problem with applying Waxoyl is achieving this perfect finish inside the box section. What you typically end up with is a very rippled finish. I believe that this causes water to puddle in the Waxoyl. The problem being that this water evaporates and since there is very little or no ventilation inside the sills it has no where to go other than condense inside.......


    The most interesting thing about the pictures is the puddle of water on the waxoyl treated piece. I have decided that high viscosity wax injection products are not the way to go. They will not penetrate seams and thinner products offer better capillary action and self-sealing properties.



    Quote Originally Posted by j4mes View Post
    shit, thats an incredible result from dynax S-50!!!! try leaving them for a longer period
    They will be there for some time Ė and to try to accelerate the corrosion, I keep throwing road grit on them

    At the end of the day, these are only my opinions based on my experiences All I am trying to do is find the best stuff for the job
    Pete


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  13. #33
    Guest dhracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol View Post
    I have used stone chip in the past and it was about as good as slapping a coat of emulsion on.

    They will be there for some time – and to try to accelerate the corrosion, I keep throwing road grit on them

    At the end of the day, these are only my opinions based on my experiences All I am trying to do is find the best stuff for the job
    This Dynax stuff sounds like it's good for box sections but possibly not much else? (although it mentions self healing on the site ) In your testing are you going to throw gravel at the mild steel sections? (to mimic road grit, etc hitting it)

    Can you recommend anything better than stone chip?

  14. #34
    Member Petrol's Avatar
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    Yes the road grit is on the samples
    Pete


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  15. #35
    Guest steve 1200's Avatar
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    Keep going m8 as i will be doing mine soon and this is helping me make a decision

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhracer View Post
    This Dynax stuff sounds like it's good for box sections but possibly not much else? (although it mentions self healing on the site ) In your testing are you going to throw gravel at the mild steel sections? (to mimic road grit, etc hitting it)
    I am not trying to simulate road grit hitting the samples, just trying to accelerate the corrosion. BTW have you ever thrown salt from a bin onto the road with your hands? I once did and my hands swollen up like balloons Itís really aggressive stuff.

    The Dynax is intended as a box section wax, some wax manufacturers suggest spraying under the wheel arches but I don't think it would last long driving down a gritted road. The other problem is that if you applied it quite thick, dirt would stick to it. As the dirt builds up it holds moisture and would never dry out. I can only assume they are attempting to sell as much product as they can by offering a one stop solution.

    If you look at how manufactures protect their cars its waxy stuff in the box sections and stonechip under the arches. I think this is the best way, different products for different areas. I think stonechip is fantastic stuff and you would be hard pressed to find anything better for under the arches. I have no doubt though that some brands are better than others. I am going to try some 3M
    Pete


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  17. #37
    Guest dhracer's Avatar
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    Do you work for the highways agency or something?

    Earlier you said that stonechip was no better than emulsion

    what about the floor pan itself, stonechip again?

    You seem about the most knowledgeable on the board on this sort of stuff, it's a lot to ask but I think it would be really useful if you could post up a reference thread (maybe to go in that reference section that's a little empty ) on the best stuff to use for what parts in what condition (or are you going to include this information in your mammoth restoration project that I gather is imminent?)

  18. #38
    Member Petrol's Avatar
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    Lol no I am a video editor, The ďemulsionĒ stonechip was some cheapy cheap stuff I used years ago (canít remember what brand it was though ) It just flaked off. Yep stonechip the sills, chassis rails and floor pan. I will include all the prepping, products and application in the refurb thread (which is being held up by the weather and waiting for MR Postie to arrive with goodies)
    Pete


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  19. #39
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    With all due respect Petrol, while I find your studies fascinating I can't see the relevance. You can try and accelerate corrosion all you want but it won't make a difference unless you're leaving it for a long time. The corrosion tests here at Millbrook are pretty hardcore, more than just throwing road grit at a plate dude.

  20. #40
    Member Petrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by piman2k View Post
    The corrosion tests here at Millbrook are pretty hardcore, more than just throwing road grit at a plate dude.
    Just looked at the website, facilities there are "Accelerated corrosion simulating 1 year in 2 weeks " Do they publish any results?
    Pete


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