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Thread: Pushing 200SX + CA18DET to the limit

  1. #1
    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    Pushing 200SX + CA18DET to the limit

    bits:

    CA18DET
    720cc injectors
    Z32 AFM
    exfaus manifold
    3" exhaust system
    spec stage 3 clutch
    walbro fuel pump
    NGK spark plugs grade 7
    ....................
    ...................
    (engine rebuilt with stronger internals will be done during the winter)



    Problem:
    what turbo to chose?:
    - GT2860RS 0.86 A/R
    - GT2871R 0.86 A/R
    - other

    all the parts mentioned above are already on the car or they are already ordered and are on the way, my bigges problem remains the turbo, i do not know what turbo to chose so i can have the best eficienci tu run at the top limit of the gearbox

    GT28RS stated for max 360HP i think this amount of power will be of for an upper limit of the gearbox (before destruction)

    GT2871R stated for 400HP from what i have understood at 400HP only with a lot of luck yor gearbox will not "self" destruct.

    having this in mind maybe you will help me answer few qestions:

    - can anything be done for cheap to incrase the strenght on the gearbox?
    - can GT2860RS be pushed over 360HP (stock T25 is stated for 210HP but if pushed to the limits 240HP can be sqezed out of the CA18DET using stock turbo)
    - car will be used for drag racing and the gearbox seams to become a week spot in the "race" for big HP any advice, or triks that i may do to the gearbox for cheap?

    my target for now is 301WHP (during hot days in summer)

    to conclude:
    - anything that can be done with the gearbox (for cheap to go to 350-400WHP or more)
    - GT28RS will push the stock gearbox to the limits or the stock gearbox can handle the abuse of a GT2871R?

  2. #2
    Guest SM's Avatar
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    I dont think I'd like to launch a 400bhp CA on a stock gearbox, although 3rd gear is the weakest.

    No, there is no cheap way to sort the gearbox, cheapest proven fixes seem way over 1000 still.

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    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    so haveing something bigger then a GT28RS will be of no use because of the gearbox ?

    personali i was afraid for 1st gear and second gear, when you have the start
    i thought in 3rd gear and 4th you have nothing to worry about, in fact i was thinking in future to use something like NX in 3rd gear and 4th gear to improve my time
    Last edited by ByReaL; 13-07-2006 at 08:58.

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    Guest SM's Avatar
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    People do run 2871's on the stock gearbox, I'm just saying I wouldnt, your choice - if you have a spare gearbox you can always risk it.

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    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    anyoane know a more solid gearbox, from any car that can be used to replace the stock CA18DET gearbox? and of course wich is more resistant

    all gearbox or only some internals .. ?

    and for the turbo i refer to that

    - a GT28RS pushed to the limits will also push the gearbox to the limits
    - a GT2871R pushed to the limits will brake for shure the gearbox

    Am I right ?
    Last edited by ByReaL; 13-07-2006 at 10:08.

  6. #6
    Guest SM's Avatar
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    Its the eternal problem, hence most people either fork out the 1500 + build costs for a OS Geiken or keep replacing standard boxes. Its the same for the SR, and why the RB25DET transplant is so advantageous - a 500bhp capable gearbox.
    The SR one is very slightly better, and can go on a CA bell housing, but its not much of an upgrade.
    Theres a American kit for the SR's that uses a 300 gearbox, but not for the CA.

    Nothing is "for sure" to break, only increasing levels of risk.

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    Member alanjuggler's Avatar
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    i gave up with reconditioning standard boxes - i ended up buying Richie's old giken setup. '(5 gear+mainshaft+whatever else it was)

    when you're at 360-370 at the flywheel, i'd definitely do something about the standard gearbox. i ran 1bar with my 2540 with standard gearboxes and it was never very happy about it.

    besides which, the standard gearbox ratios aren't a good match for the larger turbos, first gear becomes useless and the rest are slightly too long and there's lag between gears.

    with the giken box, first gear is long, i.e. now useable and they've shortened 2nd and 3rd but they're higher up, so when you change up from 2nd > 3rd > 4th, each gear change starts the next gear at about 4krpm. when most of the bigger turbos are in their power range.

    it was definitely one of the best things i have bought for the car, even taking into account that the gearbox, even second hand, cost more than the car.

    dont try to save your money on gearboxes and clutches, i have tried and it didnt work either time.
    white '94 s13 200sx scrapped - mapped to 1.45bar. OS giken box, garrett GT2876R, 950cc injectors, ORC twin plate, nistune. 349bhp/325lbft @ 1.3bar CA18DET
    white '96 s13 180sx - type g with more kouki bits - RB25DET, GTR steel twin turbo conversion, RB26 crank & rods. 2.6L VVT twin turbo, SR20 OSG box, OSG STR twin plate clutch, Z32 ECU w/ nistune.

    current status: 180 a bit broken but to be repaired.

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    you could give cryo treating the gearbox internals a go.

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    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    one more thing, the gearbox fail during the gear changes / at start (because of the shock) or it brakes at peek power

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    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    i come back to this topic, and ask again if anyoane has any ideea about how to mod the gear box to handle abuse of standing starts

    today i thought i have damaged my clutch again, but then i realised thet it poped out of the first gear when i had the start, so i'm thinking seriously to stop investing in other parts, and do something with the gearbox so i ask again

    money right now ~1000-1200E (if nacesary i'll wayt 2-3 more months and gather some more money)

    target stronger gearbox to handle 500-600HP

    qestions what do you recomend ?

    and because i'm replacing the anywy the gearbox/internals will be nice to have other gear ratio ? (wich) or the stock gear ratio is perfect.


    300ZX VG30DETT gearbox can be used in anyway ? take internals from it? or internals form a BMW engine or from other car?or what do you recommend ?

  11. #11
    Guest steve 1200's Avatar
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    if i hit 8k in second it somtimes dont like to go into third unless i drop the revs a bit ive only got standard box running about 300bhp

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    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve 1200
    if i hit 8k in second it somtimes dont like to go into third unless i drop the revs a bit ive only got standard box running about 300bhp

    standing start 4000rpm
    start
    just before changing to second gear it poped out firts time when this is hapening

    was about to buy a bigger turbo, but now i'm thinking seriously to transmision before going to a bigger turbo, what use will be apowerful engine if the gearbox fill not handle it


    A last minute ideea

    any opinions about SR20VET gearbox ??? internals ...
    Last edited by ByReaL; 26-07-2006 at 22:49.

  13. #13
    Guest Vlade's Avatar
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    Agree with SM, I see the Japs like to transplant the RB boxes as they are stronger and its cheaper than a custom OS Giken setup....

  14. #14
    No, the other one. Pete C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByReaL
    any opinions about SR20VET gearbox ??? internals ...
    Do you mean the 6-speeder from the S15? They're weaker than an S14 SR20DET 'box, probably no better than a CA one.

    1993 [L] RS13 200SX
    2003 [53] MX-5 Angels
    2004 [04] E63 645i
    SXOC Member #199

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    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete C
    Do you mean the 6-speeder from the S15? They're weaker than an S14 SR20DET 'box, probably no better than a CA one.

    X-Trail GT, i think , has a SR20VET

    anyway , just an example, any ideea will be apreciated, along with an proximate price

    everybody talk about OS giken but i do not know how much money are such internals, or if i can find good internals, from other company for a better price ....

  16. #16
    Guest SM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByReaL
    everybody talk about OS giken but i do not know how much money are such internals, or if i can find good internals, from other company for a better price ....
    OS Geiken kits are around 1300+500 for the mainshaft IIRC.

    The reason theres not much info on anything else is everything else is more expensive. PPG/Quaife ect.

    There's 100 people here waiting for somebody to find a sub - 1000, 450bhp solution to the CA gearbox needs, be it a hybrid RB gearbox or BMW/Getrag ..... it just doesnt exist.

    Madtech did very very very extensive work to make a Getrag fit their 700bhp drag beast SR-equipped car, but basically it seems like you need free use of a machining shop to make it worthwhile, and a lot of engineering knowledge.

  17. #17
    committed. Jezz_S13's Avatar
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    I went for the full Giken kit despite previously championing the idea of an RB25DET (or other alternative) box.

    The reasoning is several-fold...
    1) I got the OSG kit cheaper than UK prices and therefore will always be worth what I paid for it (unless it gets munched). And I plan to go RB at some point so will want to sell it.
    2) Acquiring an RB box is going to cost a few quid, probably 4-500.
    3) I have a ally single piece prop already, with the RB box I'd have to find another solution, another 100+.
    4) making the RB box fit, this isn't going to be easy and is going to cost a fair bit to do.
    5) it's a fair bit heavier than the CA box

    That said I believe the RB box is probably stronger than the Giken.
    Last edited by Jezz_S13; 27-07-2006 at 12:20.

  18. #18
    Guest CNHSS1's Avatar
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    be interested in ya Giken should you ever want to part with it

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    Guest ByReaL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jezz_S13
    .......That said I believe the RB box is probably stronger than the Giken.

    so you belive that a RB25 box can be fited afther all to the CA engine, and this for just under 1000GBP, and also beiing stronger then the os giken?





    another qestion to the topic, in the CA gearbox what are the parts that fails and whatare the reasons, let's say i have acces to good quality materials and to a good machining workshop, if i'll take the CA gearbox and make a copy of it just using only better materials do you think it can be made to handle 500-600fly hp ? or it is something in the gerabox design that make it, let's not say week, but to brake pass 350-400hp

    what kind of materials what tipe of iron.. is used in the CA gearbox and whatmeterials should be used for 500-600hp?

  20. #20
    committed. Jezz_S13's Avatar
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    I'm not sure you could do it for 1000, depends who does the work and how involved it becomes.

    The problem with the CA/SR gears is the thickness of the root of the gear teeth rather than the material. The Giken kit has less teeth per gear, thicker teeth.

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