but missing the point, superclarkey... you never see people who dont care about sounds at a sound-off either
wonder if they do a budget sound-off. not allowed to spend more than £50 including installation.
but missing the point, superclarkey... you never see people who dont care about sounds at a sound-off either
wonder if they do a budget sound-off. not allowed to spend more than £50 including installation.
7x10's are basically the same principle, its a marketing hype. I am sure that there are different brands of 6x9's that would do better than those Kenwoods, its not the size so much in this instance but the quality of speakers that make the difference.Originally Posted by stubb
I am in agreement with the no 6x9 arguement, You sit at the front and the better the fronts (especially in the good sized S14 holes) then with a sub you have a soundstage, an image and the full frequency range played. Its all you need. Even with 6x4's you can get a great sound without 6x9's, I know as I have. the key is in the amplification.
but that doesn't change the fact a similarly priced set of components would more than likely sound better..
*woof woof* <- not very scarey, but you try being a dog, through the medium of text..
james
NakamichiIf it's not got Nakamichi, JL Audio, Phoenix Gold, DLS, Soundstream, MTX, Caliber, Genesis or Rock Foss (feel free to add any I've missed formula)written on it, just leave it in the shop
**wooden spoon back in draw**
JL Audio
Phoenix Gold
DLS
Soundstream
MTX
Caliber
Genesis
Rock Foss
phase linear
boston acoustics
alpine
audison
blaupunkt (hus only, the rest is pretty cack)
crystal
maystar
mac audio
denon
hifonics
orion
pioneer (not the cheap crap)
rainbow
sinfoni
tru
directed
elemental designs
resonant engineering
focal
zapco
and theres a million more, i just can't remember them
Gotto go for decent quality custom fit, everytime
(then you get to keep your side windows intact if you park it in Stoke at nighttime!
I had a pair of Rockford Fosgate 6x9sIf it's not got Nakamichi, JL Audio, Phoenix Gold, DLS, Soundstream, MTX, Caliber, Genesis or Rock Foss (feel free to add any I've missed formula)written on it, just leave it in the shop
**wooden spoon back in draw**.
They were quite good to be honest, but not worth the £110 I paid for them
Kenwood 7x10s are shite - I've had a set, the high end is so harsh it'll make your ears bleed at any volume. Come to think of it, all the kenwood speakers i've had were complete rubbish
I had an £80 set of Pioneers in my Fiesta. They were loud and brash with no sound quality whatsoever. Thank god they went with the car...
I got some 6x9s in my s14 - wish I never bothered. Although it didn't cost me anything.
They sounded good in my old hatchback because I made a nice MDF shelf. Lots of bass without the hassles of a sub. I know a sub would have been better but I was on a budget.
6x9s on a s14 metal shelf don't work that well. Even though I plastered the shelf in dynamat and spent ages making an mdf ring to attach the 6x9 to the uneven shelf.
I've got 6x9's in my front doors - not because I wanted them but because the previous owner had cut them in there. I replaced them with the best 6x9's you can get on a budget - especially when they're half price at halfords- infinity's
However, I'm no stereo freak, did that in my last car and wouldn't consider doing it again, too much money involved and by the time the car starts up the exhaust drowns out any form of sound quality there ever was anyway.
So, in short - 6x9's are "OK" if you don't want something amazing to listen to in the car
What REALLY PAINS ME is that people go to all that effort cutting them into the front doors
After a few hours thought and research I have found several uses for 6x9s. Contrary to what people say, they do have their uses:
1. Doorstop
2. Paperweight
3. Decorative pencil holder
4. Pin cushion
5. A large keyring
6. Did I say doorstop?
It's to do with the design.
An Oval speaker will never sound as pure as a circular speaker.
nah.. not quite true..
an oval speaker can sound fine, if sufficient R&D is put in.. its not ideal, but can be made to sound fine if need be..
its just very few manufacturers bother producing good quality speakers because colouring speakers red and printing "1,000watts" or "big bass innit" on the boxes is more effective at selling products...
its just a fact that 90% of people who start out in car audio want a system to look cool rather than actually play music.. its why half the people who are new to it always say they "need 12inch subs" without having a clue about how it would sound, or the classic "its going to be a demo car" lol..
james
It still will never be as good as a circular cone with the same R&D put into it.
sorry.. i didn't mean to be pedantic..
it was just the "never" bit i was objecting too..
james
Then whats your opinion on these type of speakers:
http://www.autostudio.fi/?page=tuotteet&tuote=1337
compared to 6x9? are these also sh**ty?
and I should just buy ones with separeate speakers like these:
http://www.autostudio.fi/?page=tuotteet&tuote=1672
don´t know how to explain the difference in english!
first ones are known as coaxials..
second ones are known as components..
componenents enable you to position the tweeter to give a better stereo image..
both the ones you've suggested are made by sony, and therefore terrible.. don't go near them..
james
I was designing some pentogram speakers... I guess they won't be any good! Back to the drawing board
Gah! I really hate this argument.
You could maybe make a point of it if you were talking about a system designed for a specific car, but to be honest there are too many obstructions for that argument to hold true.
The minute any sound waves come into contact with an object the sound form will be distorted as the sounds start to bounce and interfere with each other.
Alpine 6x9's and components are good for those on a budget. I'm not saying 6x9's are better than components, I wouldn't put a set up front (like the previous owner of my car did) but I'm happy sticking a decent set in the back.
Like I said before, this is a pointless argument that will never go away...
It will never go away.
The fact is to create a stereo image speakers need to be further away from eachother, and further away from you than can happen in any car (even a maybach) :P and facing forwards at rougly your eye level with you directly in the middle.
As this never happens in cars, any notion of accomplishing good imaging or "sound stage" is bull.
Sound quality on the other hand can be had by buying speakers that are of good quality that reproduce sound as closeley as possible to the orginal source material..
So to round up, you may be able to get good sound quality, but you'll never be able to get good imaging or any soundstage in a car, and throwing multitudes of 12" subs and 5000[pretend]watt amps at the situation and turning the treble up a touch is not going to make a blind bit of difference (and lets face it thats what most people do.
All i would say - is have either 6" coax's or 6" components with both mid and treble speakers as well positioned as possible in the front of the car (i.e as near to eye level, as near to facing you as possible) and have a single, quality sub in the boot. Thats all the sound quality you will need. Anything else, is just volume.
As for head units and aplification, do as you like, but be aware that if a head unit outputs crap sound, plugging a nice set of amps into it, will just let you output crap sound louder. Its the source you need to spend your cash on most, then the amplification.
There, thats my rant over.
Butuz
Hmmm....It will never go away.
The fact is to create a stereo image speakers need to be further away from eachother, and further away from you than can happen in any car (even a maybach) :P and facing forwards at rougly your eye level with you directly in the middle.
As this never happens in cars, any notion of accomplishing good imaging or "sound stage" is bull.
Sound quality on the other hand can be had by buying speakers that are of good quality that reproduce sound as closeley as possible to the orginal source material..
So to round up, you may be able to get good sound quality, but you'll never be able to get good imaging or any soundstage in a car, and throwing multitudes of 12" subs and 5000[pretend]watt amps at the situation and turning the treble up a touch is not going to make a blind bit of difference (and lets face it thats what most people do.
All i would say - is have either 6" coax's or 6" components with both mid and treble speakers as well positioned as possible in the front of the car (i.e as near to eye level, as near to facing you as possible) and have a single, quality sub in the boot. Thats all the sound quality you will need. Anything else, is just volume.
As for head units and aplification, do as you like, but be aware that if a head unit outputs crap sound, plugging a nice set of amps into it, will just let you output crap sound louder. Its the source you need to spend your cash on most, then the amplification.
There, thats my rant over.
Butuz
I will say I've never heard a soundstage from a car as good as the best hifi I've ever heard (Quad electrostatics mated to Quad and Linn separates) but I have heard some truly stunning imaging coming from cars.
If you are talking about 6x9s then possible for that budget you won't get much of a soundstage admittedly, but certainly more than 6x9s. Regardless of the science, the cone shape, or the complexities of the interior of a motor car 6x9s sound pap. End of story.
And tweeter positioning is a matter of opinion. There is a lot to be said for a single point source where the tweeters and mids reside together whether that is the door or in the kickwell. It's a matter of positioning the tweeters until you find the position that most suits your ears.
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