Oil Advice And Recommendations Here

[SM]

I am still thinking about this 1...Can't help thinking this guy seems to recommend the same oil for most peeps...Sorry....

Pete R

He likes Silkolene, but sells ALL brands. I know I want a good fully synthetic, it seems very good, the right price but I'll probably still use 10w50 during the summer with trackday use, and use 5w40 during the winter.
This is not quite what Simon advised, but close.

[--lorien--]

My two bottles of oil arrived Monday as promised!

[Stevecarter200]

I am still thinking about this 1...Can't help thinking this guy seems to recommend the same oil for most peeps...Sorry....

Pete R

Probably because we all drive the same cars and give them a good thrash now and then.

Ive just had a google and Simon appears on quite a few other forums and is not recommending Silkolene to all of them. Make your own conclusions.

[oilman]

Indeed, it was Andy Burton's car but I was asked not to put names onto a public forum.

Silkolene sorted his problem for him and the email thanking them merely points out two important facts.

1. Thicker is not always better depending on the quality and composition of the oil.

2. The oil lasted far better than all the others he tried.

With regards to the recommendations of mine, PRO S is perfectly suitable for road cars and is fully approved by major OEM's such as BMW, Porsche, VW, Mercedes Benz etc.

5w-40 is a good grade for "all year round", whether it be Silkolene, Total, Mobil or whatever and many car manufacturers today recommend it for this very reason.

I think those that are "having a go" should perhaps email me for a price list and they will quickly see that I sell many products apart from PRO S!

I have been asked by people what I think is the best, I've given my honest opinion, nothing to do with margins, I make the same on every brand with Club discounts but am happy to sell you whatever you want, it really doesn't bother me.

Finally, you all have the same car and pretty much the same requirements barring a few exceptions so why would I recommend totally different oils?
If PRO S is good for one, it's good for another

Hope this clarifies my position and remember, you don't have to take my advice

Why no email me for prices? sales@opieoils.co.uk

Cheers
Simon

[DaveV]

In general, yes synthetics will last longer, ester being the best, here's a rule of thumb. (It does depend on the quality of the oil though!) The more expensive oils with "high grade" VI improvers will last longer as the oil will last longer before "shearing" thinning down.

MC synthetic - 3000-5000 miles
POA's - 6000-8000 miles
Esters - 10000-120000 miles

Hello Mr Oilman,

I just switched to using Castrol RS 10w60 and am changing every 3000 miles as I only do lots of very short journeys, however i'm about to start a new job that means an 80 mile round trip every day , can you tell me is it safe to up the oil change interval and if so which category above does the Castrol RS fall into?

Thanks

[oilman]

Hello Mr Oilman,

I just switched to using Castrol RS 10w60 and am changing every 3000 miles as I only do lots of very short journeys, however i'm about to start a new job that means an 80 mile round trip every day , can you tell me is it safe to up the oil change interval and if so which category above does the Castrol RS fall into?

Thanks

3000-5000 miles as it's an HC Synthetic.

Cheers
Simon

[DaveV]

Ahh crap, , I guess i'll be on to you for some ester syth when it's used up so

Thanks

[JSF]

Indeed, it was Andy Burton's car but I was asked not to put names onto a public forum.

Andy is the only person in the world driving that configuartion of car, so giving his car was as good as naming him, well it is to anyone who follows British Rallying.

With regards to the recommendations of mine, PRO S is perfectly suitable for road cars and is fully approved by major OEM's such as BMW, Porsche, VW, Mercedes Benz etc.

You have to be very careful with statements like that, for example the only oil recomended by BMW for the S54 engined vehicles is Castrol RS 10/60 which has been rebranded for BMW as Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W-60. Use any other oil and you will get very high oil use and invalidate your waranty.

What oil you choose must be based on how you use the car, what ambient temperatures you subject it to and the specific requirements of that engine. Using a 40 grade oil on some of the cars present on this BBS would not be a wise move IMHO.

[oilman]

You have to be very careful with statements like that, for example the only oil recomended by BMW for the S54 engined vehicles is Castrol RS 10/60 which has been rebranded for BMW as Castrol TWS Motorsport 10W-60. Use any other oil and you will get very high oil use and invalidate your waranty.

What oil you choose must be based on how you use the car, what ambient temperatures you subject it to and the specific requirements of that engine. Using a 40 grade oil on some of the cars present on this BBS would not be a wise move IMHO.

Firstly, I was referring to the approvals for the oil obviously the application depends on the manufacturers specific recommendations which can vary from model to model, year to year and based on different operating temperatures.

There are indeed a small number of BMW's (S54) that call for 10w-60 although
the majority of BMW's manufactured in the last 12 years call for 5w-40 for "all year round" use.

I totally agree with the requirements being different depending on the cars use and modifications etc but a good ester based 40 grade oil will have sufficient film strength to cope with most people's needs here as an MC/HC synthetic 10w-60 could very quickly shear down to a 50 or even 40 within a couple of thousand miles.

At the top of this thread, I tried to point out these variables in a frank and honest way and I recognise that it will always be personal choice.

The manufacturer seems to recommend a range of oils for your cars from 5w to 15w and sae 30 to 50.

Based on regular service intervals and "normal" driving however the best bet with regards to standard cars and UK weather is 10w-40 Semi or Fully Synthetic.

There are always options to consider with regards to "special requirements" if you would like to do this but you'll need further advice and.................I may have further questions for you.

5w-40 instead of 10w-40

5w offers better cold start and short journey protection as it's thinner than 10w and remember this is when 70+ percent of the engine wear occurs.


10w-50 instead of 10w-40 - 15w-50 instead of 15w-40

50 offers better protection than 40 when the engine is running hot so if you're doing track days or hard driving you may want to consider this option.

Synthetic Oils instead of Mineral Oils.

It is a fact that Semi and Fully synthetic oils are better for your car, they flow better when cold and give a greater level of protection when the engine is hot.

It is a fact, not myth that complex engines such as DOHC, Turbocharged, and Supercharged when driven hard will always have a greater degree of protection from a synthetic oil.

A synthetic oil is more robust and will last longer (that's why they cost more) mineral oils need much more frequent oil changes but they are cheaper. Semi-synthetic is to some extent the "middle ground" for pennies more than a good mineral oil.

Ester Synthetic Oils against Normal Synthetic Oils

The oils that give true benefits are ester synthetics (pretty hard to come by as they are expensive to make although Silkolene still does). The reasons for their application in motorsport and the aviation sector are clear:

They assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.

They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).

They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.

So, there you have it, some advantages and disadvantages to consider, I'm here to give advice so please feel free to ask, I'll do my best to answer you.

As many of you will be aware, I sell the likes of Mobil 1 15w-50 Motorsport, Castrol RS 10w-60 and the Silkolene PRO S and PRO R Ester Range so I have plenty of oils to choose from. At the end of the day, I will tell you truthfully what I think are the best but you must use what you are comfortable with.

Cheers
Simon

[Petrol]

I have taken some independent advice on this and have ordered 20 litres. I intend to flush the old stuff out using the new oil. I thought of loosening the oil filter to drain the contents but is this a good idea? Don't’ want to start circulating what the filter has caught.

Pete R

[greg_p]

Hi Mr Oilman,

A got a S14a (as a lot of people here)...
I was particularly astonished by the contenance of the oil carter... It's just 3.5 liter (with oil filter), quite few...
I was used to take a 5w50 oil (not the last patent but the one before of mobil1, 5w50 synth) in my peugeot 206gti (L4 16v 2.0l, 100kw), as this oil seemed to be a good synth, for track and severe use. The carter was about 5.0 liters, I change the oil every 6000km (~3500miles).
Now with the nissan, I change oil every 5000km (~3000miles), because i'm afraid that the oil got used pretty faster than with 5.0 liters carter... and the turbo makes the old does wear the oil too.
What's your opinion about it?

[SM]

Anyone in NorthWest want to save on postage and join the group buy .. link in sig ... we have about 20 tubs coming Last Week or so of orders. Mascrat Attendees only for delivery. (or by discussion with me).

[MarkH]

I have taken some independent advice on this and have ordered 20 litres. I intend to flush the old stuff out using the new oil. I thought of loosening the oil filter to drain the contents but is this a good idea? Don't’ want to start circulating what the filter has caught.

Pete R

no don't do this

[oilman]

More interesting reading on oils, heavy but worth it.

Building a good oil.

It is impossible to make a good 5w-40 or even 10w-40, using only mineral oil. The base oil is so thin, it just evaporates away at the high temperatures found in a powerful engine that is being used seriously. Although there are chemical compounds in there to prevent oil breakdown by oxygen in the atmosphere (oxidation) they cannot adequately protect vulnerable mineral oil at the 130 degC plus sump temperatures found in a hard working turbocharged or re-mapped engine.

The answer to this is synthetics. They are built up from simple chemical units, brick by brick so as to speak; to make an architect designed oil with properties to suit the demands of a modern engine.

The synthetic myth

The word “synthetic” once meant the brick by brick chemical building of a designer oil but the waters were muddied by a court case that took place in the USA some years ago. The outcome was that the right to call heavily modified mineral oil “synthetic” was won. This was the marketing executives dream; the chance to use the word “synthetic” on a can of oil without spending much extra on the contents!

Most lower-cost “synthetic” or “semi-synthetic” oils use these “hydrocracked” mineral oils. They do have some advantages, particularly in commercial diesel lubricants but their value in performance engines is marginal.

TRUE synthetics are expensive and in basic terms there are three broad catagories, each containing many types and viscocity grades:-

PIB’s (Polyisobutanes)

These are occasionally used as thickeners in motor oils and gear oils, but their main application is to suppress smoke in two-strokes.

The TWO important ones are:

ESTERS

All jet engines are lubricated with synthetic “esters” and have been for more than 50 years but these expensive fluids only started to appear in petrol engine oils around 20 years ago.
Thanks to their aviation origins, the types suitable for lubricants work well from
-50 degC to 200 degC, and they have an added benefit. Due to their structure, “ester” molecules are “polar”; they stick to metal surfaces using electrostatic forces. This means that a protective layer is there at all times, even during that crucial start-up period. This helps to protect cams, gears, piston rings and valve train components, where lubrication is “boundary” rather than “hydrodynamic”, i.e. a very thin non pressure-fed film has to hold the surfaces apart.
Even crank bearings benefit at starts, stops, or when extreme shock loads upset the “hydrodynamic” film.

Synthetic Hydrocarbons or PAO’s (Poly Alpha Olefins)

These are, in effect, very precisely made equivalents to the most desirable mineral oil molecules. As with “esters” they work very well at low temperatures and equally well at high temperatures, if protected by anti-oxidants. The difference is, they are inert and not polar. In fact, on their own they are hopeless “boundary” lubricants, with less load carrying ability than a mineral oil. They depend entirely on the correct chemical enhancements.

It is a fact that “PAO’s” work best in combination with “esters”. The “esters” assist load carrying, reduce friction and cut down seal drag and wear, whilst the “PAO’s” act as solvents for the multigrade polymers and a large assortment of special compounds that act as dispersants, detergents, anti-wear and anti-oxidant agents, and foam suppressants.
Both are very good at resisting high-temperature evaporation, and the “esters” in particular will never carbonise in turbo bearings even when provoked by anti-lag systems.

So, in conclusion, Ester gives the best protection and Ester/PAO combinations have great benefits because they work well together. They are more expensive but worth it if you wish to do the best for your engine.

Cheers
Simon

[Petrol]

At the end of the day and reading between the lines, a polyolester based full synthetic oil maintains a better film strength in extremes. It's all about temps, frequency of change & oil breakdown, I don't consider my car to be under extremes though. For road use I think the gains will be marginal

Pete R

[oilman]

At the end of the day and reading between the lines, a polyolester based full synthetic oil maintains a better film strength in extremes. It's all about temps, frequency of change & oil breakdown, I don't consider my car to be under extremes though. For road use I think the gains will be marginal

Pete R

I agree entirely but it's down to personal taste, price and oil change periods however, ester is what you might call the "belt and braces" choice.

Cheers
Simon

[Martin T]

After reading that I am curious as to what oils we can get that are ester/pao mixes as they would seem ideal for our turbocharged cars. Also what price differences are there? Using Mobil1 15W/50 or 0W/40 or Castrol RS 10W60 costs us about £35 per oil change (3.5 litres plus a filter)
For a PAO/Esther blend of the right viscosity, how mych extra would we be looking at paying (rough guides are fine )

[oilman]

After reading that I am curious as to what oils we can get that are ester/pao mixes as they would seem ideal for our turbocharged cars. Also what price differences are there? Using Mobil1 15W/50 or 0W/40 or Castrol RS 10W60 costs us about £35 per oil change (3.5 litres plus a filter)
For a PAO/Esther blend of the right viscosity, how mych extra would we be looking at paying (rough guides are fine )

It will cost you no more than the above mentioned oils but cannot post prices here as it was agreed that I wouldn't.

You'll need to email me for a price list.

Cheers
Simon

[SM]

It will cost you no more than the above mentioned oils but cannot post prices here as it was agreed that I wouldn't.

I'll not mention prices but say that 5L of the silkolene is cheaper than 4L of Castrol RS.

Simon - Next Week I'll be ordering about 20 tubs it seems, if I order Friday does next day mean Sat Morning ?? or Monday Morning?

[oilman]

It means Monday Delivery.

Let me know in advance how much so that I can ensure we have enough on the shelf.

Thanks for not mentioning prices

Cheers
Simon